March 12, 2004, 00:42
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#1
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Emperor
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Woman charged with murder for refusing C-section
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Woman charged after refusing Caesarean
Autopsy showed 2nd twin would have survived with procedure
The Associated Press
Updated: 10:42 p.m. ET March 11, 2004
SALT LAKE CITY - A pregnant woman who allegedly ignored medical warnings to have a Caesarean section to save her twins was charged Thursday with murder after one of the babies was stillborn.
Prosecutors said Melissa Ann Rowland, 28, didn’t want the scars that accompany the surgery.
An autopsy found the baby died two days before its Jan. 13 delivery and that it would have survived if Rowland had had a C-section when her doctors urged her to, between Christmas and Jan.9. The other baby is alive, but authorities had no further information.
The doctors had warned that without a C-section, the twins would probably die, authorities said. A nurse told police Rowland said a Caesarean would “ruin her life” and she would rather “lose one of the babies than be cut like that.”
“We are unable to find any reason other than the cosmetic motivations” for the mother’s decision, said Kent Morgan, spokesman for the district attorney.
Court documents give no address for Rowland, and she isn’t listed in area telephone books. An attorney was to be appointed for her Friday, Morgan said. A court appearance was set for Tuesday.
The charges carry five years to life in prison. Rowland was jailed on $250,000 bail.
In January, the state Supreme Court ruled that unborn children at all stages of development are covered under the state’s criminal homicide statute. The law exempts the death of a fetus during an abortion.
The law has been used to prosecute women who kill or seriously harm their babies through drug use; it has never been used because a woman failed to follow her doctor’s advice, said Marguerite Driessen, a law professor at Brigham Young University.
“It’s very troubling to have somebody come in and say we’re going to charge this mother for murder because we don’t like the choices she made,” Driessen said.
According to the documents, Rowland went to LDS Hospital in Salt Lake City in December to seek advice after she hadn’t felt her babies move. A nurse, Regina Davis, told police she instructed Rowland to go immediately to one of two other hospitals, but that Rowland said she would rather have both babies die before going to either place.
On Jan. 2, a doctor at LDS Hospital examined Rowland and recommended an immediate C-section based on an ultrasound and the babies’ slowing heart rates. Rowland left, the doctor told police.
The same day, Rowland allegedly saw a nurse at another hospital, saying she had left LDS Hospital because the doctor wanted to cut her “from breast bone to pubic bone.”
A week later, Rowland allegedly went to a third hospital to verify whether her babies were alive. A nurse there told police she could not detect a heartbeat from one twin and advised Rowland to remain in the hospital, but Rowland allegedly ignored the advice.
A spokesman for LDS Hospital said he could not comment, citing medical privacy and a pending court case. It was not clear how many weeks Rowland was pregnant before the delivery.
© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4509692/
Okay folks, what do you think?
While the woman is obviously an idiot, I find it troubling that she is being charged with murder for refusing a surgical procedure... it is my (admittedly novice) legal understanding that adults can refuse medical treatment if they so desire...
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March 12, 2004, 00:44
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#2
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Deity
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It's Utah, Guy. They do strange things there 
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(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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March 12, 2004, 00:46
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#3
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Deity
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I can't see charging her with murder, admittedly solely on the basis that it doesn't seem right.
There's a cans of worms.
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I'm consitently stupid- Japher
I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned
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March 12, 2004, 00:48
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#4
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Emperor
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The woman should probably have done it, but... MURDER? that is plain idiotic. 
BTW, wouldn't the surgery cost her money if she's not insured (or only partly?)
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March 12, 2004, 00:48
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#5
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Emperor
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I'm not sure I'd call her an idiot. C-sections are notoriously over-prescribed.
The quickest link I could find to the debate in the Canadian context:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...=1078182610939
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March 12, 2004, 00:55
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#6
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Deity
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The worst thing I could see is criminal negligence, but that's pushing it.
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(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
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March 12, 2004, 01:02
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#7
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Emperor
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Charging someone with murder for refusing to go under the knife? What, are we gonna start forcing people to give up kidneys and force everyone to be an organ donar now? This is a massive invasion of privacy and will hopefully be struck down as unconstitutional.
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Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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March 12, 2004, 01:26
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#8
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
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Why do I have to live in such a stupid state? 
But this probably will be a bigger issue in Utah. The Church wants people to procreate, and so.....
Sigh.  Please, no jokes.
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March 12, 2004, 01:28
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#9
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Emperor
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At least your state isn't as corrupt as mine. I live in a friggan banana republic. My state makes Nigerians blush.
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Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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March 12, 2004, 01:30
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#10
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Why do I have to live in such a stupid state?
But this probably will be a bigger issue in Utah. The Church wants people to procreate, and so.....
Sigh. Please, no jokes.
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How's about an "I told you so"? 
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- "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
- I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
- "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming
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March 12, 2004, 01:30
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#11
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King
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This woman denied one of her babies the chance to accept Jesus Christ as it's personal savior and as a result,her innocent child is now being tortured in the lowest bowels of hell by a legion of demons.
I say string her up!!
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March 12, 2004, 01:30
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#12
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Deity
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Child endangerment would have been the better charge to make.
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Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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March 12, 2004, 01:34
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#13
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
Child endangerment would have been the better charge to make.
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And here comes our first proponent of forced surgery ...
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- "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
- I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
- "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming
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March 12, 2004, 01:35
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#14
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Deity
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It's more logical than making the charge of murder. 
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Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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March 12, 2004, 01:40
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#15
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
It's more logical than making the charge of murder.
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Best solution - drop the charges and tell the Mormons to line up for some Kool-Aid. Yeah, that's the ticket! 
__________________
- "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
- I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
- "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming
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March 12, 2004, 01:42
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#16
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Deity
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My solution would be to drop the charges, call the woman a *****, and look into taking the kid born alive away from her.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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March 12, 2004, 03:11
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#17
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Deity
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murder seems excessive. But from what I understand (I got my news from the Tom Leykis show- he's a shock jock type of radio personality), her attitude was pretty shitty. The reason she refused the c-section was kinda weak.
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Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
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March 12, 2004, 03:13
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#18
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Why do I have to live in such a stupid state?
But this probably will be a bigger issue in Utah. The Church wants people to procreate, and so.....
Sigh. Please, no jokes.
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bah! At least you get to have numerous wives who do whatever you say. Your state rules!!
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Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
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March 12, 2004, 03:16
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#19
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Emperor
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Quote:
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didn’t want the scars that accompany the surgery.
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Eh.
How do I do the puke smiley?
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March 12, 2004, 03:17
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#20
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Emperor
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murder? No. Criminal endangerment of a child, or some sort of manslaughter, is more appropriate.
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March 12, 2004, 03:18
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#21
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Emperor
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Well, better than nothing.
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Scouse Git (2) LaFayette and Adam Smith you will be missed
"All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady." - JRR Tolkein
Get busy living or get busy dying.
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March 12, 2004, 04:02
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#22
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King
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Most likely involuntary manslaughter would be a more appropriate charge.
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Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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March 12, 2004, 04:03
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#23
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Deity
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how could it be involuntary? she voluntarily did it 
That is still too harsh a charge.
negligance at the worst.
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Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
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March 12, 2004, 04:06
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#24
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King
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Dissident
how could it be involuntary? she voluntarily did it
That is still too harsh a charge.
negligance at the worst.
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Oops.. that was a typo. Manslaughter can carry a sentence of as little as a few years to life I think.
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Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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March 12, 2004, 04:35
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#25
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Emperor
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What kind of person would rather see their baby die than to have a scar? Definitely not someone who should be having children. As sad as it is to see an infant die, I think I feel more sorry for the child who was born.
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"tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"
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March 12, 2004, 04:35
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#26
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Emperor
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"As little" a sentence as life imprisonment? Wow, coming from you that's practically an acquital, Fez. 
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March 12, 2004, 04:37
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#27
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Prince
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I guess the Utah lawyer community is getting bored. Sheesh.
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March 12, 2004, 10:22
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#28
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Retired
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While I personally think the lady should be punished... the story says...
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The doctors had warned that without a C-section, the twins would probably die, authorities said. A nurse told police Rowland said a Caesarean would “ruin her life” and she would rather “lose one of the babies than be cut like that.”
“We are unable to find any reason other than the cosmetic motivations” for the mother’s decision, said Kent Morgan, spokesman for the district attorney.
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In the first paragraph... the doctor warned that the twins "probably" would die. Medicine isn't an exact science. The twins could have survived, and one did indeed survive.
There is also always a risk with surgery... So we are talking about percentages here. Granted, one could argue that the percentages say that she should have had the surgery... but it seems by the second paragraph that she is being charged because of comments made to a nurse.
Do I disagree with her choice... YES... But should people be forced to have surgery they don't want... NO!
If she had stated that she was afraid of having the surgery, and didn't want to take that risk... this probably wouldn't even be an issue.
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March 12, 2004, 10:40
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#29
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Emperor
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Murder is one charge too far.
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March 12, 2004, 10:46
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#30
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Emperor
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what would be an appropriate charge, GePap?
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