March 12, 2004, 10:46
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#31
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Deity
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Wow, what a horrible woman.
-Arrian
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grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
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March 12, 2004, 10:48
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#32
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Emperor
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__________________
"tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"
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March 12, 2004, 10:50
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#33
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Azazel
what would be an appropriate charge, GePap?
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No idea. Not being a lawyer, I won't speculate on which laws might fit-specially in that specific state.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
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March 12, 2004, 11:35
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#34
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Emperor
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1. The woman's reasons, while weak, are being used against her when she was talking in what she assumed to be a confidential situation.
2. The woman really should give the other child up for adoption.
__________________
I'm not conceited, conceit is a fault and I have no faults...
As always, will play after work. I wonder if I'll ever be able to turn that the other way...
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March 12, 2004, 11:43
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#35
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Deity
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She could be declared unfit to be a mother.
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I'm consitently stupid- Japher
I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned
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March 12, 2004, 11:45
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#36
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King
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Location: Philly
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Quote:
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“We are unable to find any reason other than the cosmetic motivations” for the mother’s decision, said Kent Morgan, spokesman for the district attorney.
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The woman obviously didn't want her incredible good looks ruined...
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"Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
"I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
"Stuie is right...." - Guynemer
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March 12, 2004, 11:50
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#37
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Prince
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I'm with Azazel. Murder is too much. Endangerment or perhaps some prenatal version of negligance. She clearly was an idiot but on the face of things she has the right to refuse treatment. Since however she has lives depending upon her, she has imposed upon them.
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"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
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March 12, 2004, 11:54
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#38
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King
Local Time: 19:06
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Posts: 1,528
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She had a right to refuse the operation, end of story.
I might disapprove of the choice or the result, but thats it as far as that goes.
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March 12, 2004, 11:56
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#39
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Deity
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Oh I'm not arguing that point. I'd argue that she should be ceclared an unfit mother for the surviving twin though.
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Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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March 12, 2004, 12:35
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#40
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Emperor
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You people.
Surgery is a deeply personal event and decision. Refusing to go under the knife doesn't make you a bad person nor does it make you an unfit mother.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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March 12, 2004, 13:50
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#41
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Emperor
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I'm gonna agree w/ Che - I don't think there should be any punishment.
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March 12, 2004, 13:55
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#42
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
nor does it make you an unfit mother.
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Saying that you'd rather have your kids die than have an unsightly scar on your body goes along way toward justifying that claim though.
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March 12, 2004, 13:58
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#43
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Emperor
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Unless there's a law mandating that one must undergo such an operation if the doctors recommend it, I can't see the murder charge. But I think she should be hit was a negligence charge, perhaps even manslaughter.
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Tutto nel mondo è burla
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March 12, 2004, 13:59
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#44
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:06
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Quote:
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You people.
Surgery is a deeply personal event and decision. Refusing to go under the knife doesn't make you a bad person nor does it make you an unfit mother.
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This is a special case. In this case your decision has massive implications for the lives of others, others who you are responsible for bringing into being.
For example, if you gave your friend some home brew and it wrecked his kidneys and he needed to be hooked up to another person for dialysis, then the state would be fully justified in compelling you to be that other person.
People who think we have absolute rights are dreamers and don't understand how rights really work.
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Only feebs vote.
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March 12, 2004, 14:00
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#45
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Emperor
Local Time: 12:06
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Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
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Quote:
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You people.
Surgery is a deeply personal event and decision. Refusing to go under the knife doesn't make you a bad person nor does it make you an unfit mother.
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Should Christian scientists be held responsible on some level if their kid dies because they refuse to take the kid in for medical treatment?
__________________
Tutto nel mondo è burla
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March 12, 2004, 14:01
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#46
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:06
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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Posts: 3,045
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Quote:
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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You people.
Surgery is a deeply personal event and decision. Refusing to go under the knife doesn't make you a bad person nor does it make you an unfit mother.
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__________________
"Now you're gonna ask me, is it an enforcer's job to drop the gloves against the other team's best player? Well sure no, but you've gotta know, these guys, they don't think like you and me." (Joël Bouchard, commenting on the Gaborik-Carcillo incident).
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March 12, 2004, 14:03
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#47
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:06
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Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Should Christian scientists be held responsible on some level if their kid dies because they refuse to take the kid in for medical treatment?
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Absolutely. The State need not stand by while people's stupid superstitions endanger human life.
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Only feebs vote.
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March 12, 2004, 14:14
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#48
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Local Time: 15:06
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Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
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Are Caesarean Sections covered under whatever equivalent the US has to nationalized healthcare?
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March 12, 2004, 14:15
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#49
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Agathon
Absolutely. The State need not stand by while people's stupid superstitions endanger human life.
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First, the state needs to offer universally free healthcare. 
__________________
"Now you're gonna ask me, is it an enforcer's job to drop the gloves against the other team's best player? Well sure no, but you've gotta know, these guys, they don't think like you and me." (Joël Bouchard, commenting on the Gaborik-Carcillo incident).
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March 12, 2004, 14:17
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#50
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Local Time: 15:06
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Charge her with something... not murder, perhaps (it's probably something they can plea down with), but negligent homicide or something. Give her a nice little fine.
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“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 12, 2004, 14:17
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#51
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King
Local Time: 14:06
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Posts: 1,657
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Stuie cracks me up.
Really, I do not see any difference between this and abortion. Or rather, abortion, which is the intentional murder of a child is far worse.
Of course that is my opinion and not the law.
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March 12, 2004, 14:19
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#52
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Local Time: 15:06
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Quote:
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First, the state needs to offer universally free healthcare.
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Who says her insurance wouldn't have covered a C-section?
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“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 12, 2004, 14:20
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#53
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Emperor
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From a legal perspective, perhaps the law students can help me out:
We know the state can limit what surgical procedures a pregnant woman can elect to undergo (abortion). But can the state legally enforce a pregnant woman to undergo a surgical procedure she does not wish to have?
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"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 12, 2004, 14:24
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#54
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Guy: dunno
It would depend on the laws of the state. It could be stated that the woman, who did not want an abortion, had a duty to to do everything she reasonably could to protect the life of the children. And it could be said that a C-section was a reasonable procedure... maybe her insurance covered it and all she'd have was a small scar. I guess the difference is in her intention of having the children and not aborting them, it falls on the line. It's a tough case, basically.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 12, 2004, 14:27
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#55
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King
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This is inconsistent with a woman's right to kill her children for "health" reasons. Obviously, concern for her beauty is a legitimate health concern that we all should support.
(I wonder how the Supremes would deal with this hypocrisy.)
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March 12, 2004, 14:28
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#56
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Emperor
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And here we are, set to discuss Roe v. Wade in my law class today... how serendipitous.
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 12, 2004, 14:30
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#57
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Local Time: 15:06
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Guy, make me proud... argue AGAINST it, but say you are PRO-CHOICE. You'll either piss off everyone or gain the respect of everyone  .
I don't see many pro-choice people who are against Roe like myself, though .
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 12, 2004, 14:36
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#58
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:06
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
Saying that you'd rather have your kids die than have an unsightly scar on your body goes along way toward justifying that claim though.
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So says the DA. I don't see anyone quoting the mother as saying that. I see a nurse telling her it would ruin her life. That would be a fairly strong motivation not to go under the knife.
Boris, forcing Christian Scientist's to treat thir children is different, as children are wards and cannot make competnet decisions for themselves. It's one thing for an adult to refuse treatement, its another for an adult to refuse treatement to a child.
Anyway, if you support the riht to choice, you have to respect this women's decision and realize that this charge is just a back door assault on the right to abortion.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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March 12, 2004, 14:37
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#59
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Emperor
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There are a few claims being made on this thread that state the decision was made on cosmetic grounds. However that claim appears to come from the prosecutors, and looks like an assumption on their part in the article.
Does anyone have anything actually convincing?
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March 12, 2004, 14:40
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#60
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Local Time: 15:06
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Quote:
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Anyway, if you support the riht to choice, you have to respect this women's decision and realize that this charge is just a back door assault on the right to abortion.
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She didn't ask for an abortion. If that were the case, then it would be ok. It's a degree of subtlety, but important. After all, if you crash into a car and a woman loses her baby, you get charged for manslaughter. The personhood of the unborn seemingly is tied to the intention of the mother (and she did not intend to abort), but this is a very interesting case.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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