March Madness!

[Rommel2D]

I've been playing Civilization for over ten years now. I've usually been fascinated by the game, and I've usually been disappointed by the competition. The rules are designed to make you believe your opponents are intelligent like you, but it is readily apparent they are not. While playing the game may be about nurturing cities and commanding units, winning strategy actually comes from unraveling a complex series of algorithms that make up an artificial intelligence. Somehow this puppet show always fell short of what I expected from the program. Bring on the actors!

When Civ2 multiplayer came out, I was without regular internet access. Once I found stable access, SMAC was the latest offering, so I tried that. Play by Email seemed to be what I was looking for, and to an extent it was. Unfortunately, by the time I started to really get into my first game, I had my net access again interrupted. And then came Civ3...

Over the last year I've finally experienced the whole PBEM experience. Early on, I tried some online MP, but the simultaneous moves thing isn't really what I'm looking for, and few people seem interested in online turn based games. The PBEM games offer what I want when they move at a good pace, but I have yet to experience this pace over the span of an entire game. Interest seems to inevitably wane over time and the games just end up lingering around in limbo.

At the beginning of this year, a tournament was started for PBEM players. It consists of five games of four players each, with the winners of each to play a final five player championship game. This has given me the best PBEM game I've been in yet, averaging over a turn per day. Unfortuantely, some of the other games are barely managing a turn a week. This lack of synchronicity looks forboding, but only time will tell.

With a watershed C3C patch on the horizon that takes care of some important PBEM problems, I think its a good time to start a second tournament. I'm volunteering to organize and administer the Tournament.

Who wishes the title of Iron Civer?

Confirmed Entrants:
ricketyclik
Masuro
smellymummy
Paddy the Scot
Andydog
sabrewolf
Aqualung71
Flandrien
Trip
alexman
Conqueror
MickeyJ
Iron Jackson
LzPrst
Moonbars
Soltz


Player Pool:
Iron Jackson
LzPrst
ricketyclik
Andydog
Paddy the Scot
smellymummy
Soltz
Masuro
alexman
Conqueror
Mickeyj
Moonbars
sabrewolf
Trip
aqua_lung
Flandrien
MFCamillus
McMeadows
Beta
playshogi


A couple things to keep in mind: This is a long term proposal. Everybody should be available on a daily basis for the next year or so with only limited periods of expected absence. Also, all turns will be played with the new patch (1.22) unless everyone agrees to upgrade at some future point.


I'm approaching this with an eye toward developing protocols and a code of conduct that will make PBEM more exciting and enjoyable. I'd like to discuss rules and arrange player groupings in advance, to build a solid framework before setting the games in motion. In the long run, I believe this will give the best result.

Although I've never participated in any of the Apolyton University projects, I was impressed by the changes they have been able to implement within the existing code. I even noticed some of the features of the PtW mod show up in the Conquest expansion. Would anyone be interested in forming a complimentary organization to focus on promoting PBEM structure? Or perhaps AU could use an athletic program to develop a new MP mod and provide scholarships for aspiring chieftains?

[Rommel2D]

Proposed rules, fifth draft:

1) 16 players, two rounds, all four player games
2) Tiny pangea with 70% water, random civs (first round only)
3) Players in final round choose tribes in order of first round completion
4) Players organized by geography for fast play (future tournament groups can be randomized if desired)
5) Turn order in east-west progression with exceptions only for players who give specific availability variances
6) Games started by referee, first turn skipped
7) Each player has the option, once per game, to call for a restart before the completion of their first turn
8) Replacements are allowed while game is still BC
9) Replacements for final game will be highest scoring runner-up from first game to finish in first round
10) 24 hour 'play clock', actively enforced
11) All players expected to make simple 'sent' post in tracking thread each turn, listing year played, except when technical problems interfere.
12) All turns to be played with version 1.22 until it is superceded by another stable upgrade which all players agree to adopt.
13) There is to be no...
rule 13.

[Rommel2D]

Issues so far:

1. More accomplished players tend to favor a previewed and balance assured map. This causes problems with Seafaring Tribes' starting positions for one thing, but if desired, I'll do my best to work around it and generate the maps.

2. Does MPTournement.biq work [edit: well] with PBEM?

3. How will extensive planned or emergency absenses from a game be handled?

24 hours after the last post is made in a game's tracking thread, I'll start looking into where the save is at. If the next player is not responding, I'll take the save, play their turn, and pass to the following player. I'd simply like to keep the game going, not punish anyone for being too busy in RL. If someone is a few hours late and still get their turn off before the following player plays the defaulted turn, no problem. 24 hours is the minimum, in practice it will usually be 30 or 40 hours before the turn is passed on.

For extended absences, assuming we don't make other arrangements, I'll play turns with minimal upkeep of cities and forces. I'll also follow strategies for anyone who leaves instructions on what they want.

[Iron Jackson]

I think I´m predestinated for the title of Iron Civer.
Only have to change Part 2 of my nick then.

I´m interested to join this tournament. As you mentioned before, some of the biggest PBEM-problems will be solved in the new patch. So it will be quite fascinating to see a new tournament developing with the changes made in the patch.

2) Yes, it works in PBEMs.

3) If a player plans to be absent for a longer time (surely we need to define "longer time", I´d like to say longer than 10 days) he may search for a temporary replacement (if desired). In case of an emergency absense (posting no message within lets say 7 days) I´d like to propose we should handle it like we did in the other tournament. My proposal: One member of Group 1 gets all the PW´s from Group 2, one from Group 2 gets the ones from Gr.3,Gr.3 gets the Gr.4 PW and finally Gr.4 gets the ones from Gr.1 .In this case we won´t need an additional referee (like Octavian is in the other tournament). In case of emergency absense I think if the game isn´t too advanced maybe a player from another group can jump in as a temporary replacement.

Concerning my tournament group in the other game, I´d like to say your proposal about organizing the groups geographically makes more sense than we did it in the other tournament. I´m for example in a group with 3 guys from Northamerica (I´m from Germany). Sometimes we manage to get one turn in 24 hours but there is only a little margin between receiving the turn from the player who´s sending me the turn and having to work (usually I receive the turns from him around 4 or 5 a.m. local time here and I´m going to work around 7 a.m.) so if the turn arrives later it stops in my inbox for about 10 or 11 hours.

[vmxa1]

Suckered me in, I thougt it was about round ball.

[ducki]

I thought it was about Caesar.

[LzPrst]

i'd like to play in a tournament. I feel that if I can woop AI a$$ on emperor I should be able to cause some tears here

[ricketyclik]

Interested.

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Iron Jackson
2) Yes, it works in PBEMs.

3) If a player plans to be absent for a longer time (surely we need to define "longer time", I´d like to say longer than 10 days)

2) With the MPTournament.biq, I meant to ask whether it should be used for PBEM. I think the mods were made with online simultaneous move games in mind. Are they also good to have in PBEM? I'm not sure what rule mods are in the present version, but we need to go over what is being changed for 1.20 also.

3) By absences, I'm talking about anything over 24 hours. I'll explain the 24 hour clock idea more by editing the earlier post, but the basic idea is that I'm not playing in the tournament myself, just setting it up and making sure none of the games sit inactive for more than a day.

One problem is that many players don't want to entrust their game to a substitute, as it can really mess up strategy. For extended absences, an idea that's been proposed is to give each player two weeks per game to 'take holiday' as they wish. It could be one two-week vacation, or seven weekend excursions, however they wish to use it.

The basic idea is to keep all first round games on a similar schedule, to keep interest up in the games themselves, as well as to prevent three of the winners from having to wait a few months to start the finals because one group couldn't pull things together.

Concerning my tournament group in the other game, I´d like to say your proposal about organizing the groups geographically makes more sense than we did it in the other tournament.

In game one, on weekends when we are all up and available at the same time, we've squeezed in three turns in a seven hour period with no formal arrangement. Geographic grouping doesn't ensure fast play, just as random allocation doesn't necessarily make it slow, but it should help more often than not, I'd hope.

I think I´m predestinated for the title of Iron Civer.

You might have to vie for destiny's hand with Uber KruX, who's avatar is something like 72% iron... :-)

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Suckered me in, I thougt it was about round ball.

Sorry, the only rocks getting tossed around here are from siege weapons. ;-)

Et tu ducki?

[Rommel2D]

If everyone could list:
Home Time Zone
Regular periods of availability for play (if any)
Planned time away form net access (vacation, military service, etc.)

I'll keep track and start making the best groupings I can once we get near the full 16 competitors.

Also, feel free to comment on any of the proposed rules. Sorry if I sound like an annoying know-it-all in my replies, but I've been working on this idea for a couple months. I hope this doesn't take any excitement out the the start-up process, just that it makes for some great games once everything gets rolling...

[LzPrst]

GMT +01
afternoon/evening ca 18:00-24:00
none without internet,

still, would like some more info on that .biq

[Iron Jackson]

GMT +1
usually playing turns (all times in local GMT+1) 06:00 - 07:30 / 17:00 - 23:00
currently no vacation etc. planned

[SirOsis]

Thanks for thinking of me but I'm going to sit this one out. My schedule is too varied to guarantee 24 hr turn around. I would suggest contacting:

Masuro
Snotty
Hot Enamel
Wittlich
Soltz
BigFree
Paddy

These guys are consistantly quick on their turns.

[Rommel2D]

Sorry to hear that, Sir. I'll give a heads up to those on your list I haven't already.

Nice avatar, but don't think your head games will psyche me out in the first tournament. [Sting]I will kill you![/Sting] (In the finals ;-)

[Dominae]

GMT+5 (or -5, whichever is West)
I can play turns anytime, depending on the day of week.
Vacation planned for August (I think).

[Andydog]

I'm always up for a bit of madness.

GMT+0, shooting to Greece around June for a few weeks but otherwise can play whenever.

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by SirOsis
I would suggest contacting:

Masuro
Snotty
Hot Enamel
Wittlich
Soltz
BigFree
Paddy

These guys are consistantly quick on their turns.

I appreciate the offer, but I am going to decline.
I really dont need any more PBEM's at the moment.

Thanks Again.

Hot_Enamel

[Harovan]

Thanks for the invitation by e-mail, even though it looked like spam . But I won't start new PBEM games for a while, especially not with Conquests. After it's fixed, maybe, but it doesn't look like this anytime soon. Best of luck for your tournament, and may the best get the Iron Civer title.

[Paddy]

I am interested.

[Adagio]

At the moment I'm not really interested in joining, but thx for the invite anyway...

[smellymummy]

I'm interested too

we don't really need restarts right (7th rule)?

[Soltz]

I'd be interested. My play times are usually 9-midnite PST

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by smellymummy
we don't really need restarts right (7th rule)?

6) and 7) are intended as a package deal, a way to avoid the abiguities of me 'judging' the maps for balanced starting positions and corrupting the placement of seafaring tribes (possibly their main advantage on a tiny pangea). Giving each player a 'mulligan' doesn't assure one person won't have a far better start than everyone else, but at least someone stuck with a jungle/hill/mountain start will have some recourse.

This won't affect the pace of the tournament- I don't see a problem doing it either way. Starting placement was the source of some friction in the first tournament, so I suggested mulligans here. Should we make this an informal poll? Does anyone have a better solution?

[Andydog]

Rommel2D, I think your current proposal 7) is fine. I'm happy to keep it that way.

[ricketyclik]

Home Time Zone: GMT+10
Regular periods of availability for play (if any): GMT 08:30-12:30
Planned time away form net access (vacation, military service, etc.): From Easter Friday for 10 days.

[marcuspeddle]

Thank you for the invitation. I'd like to play. I can play almost any time of day and my time zone is -9 GMT. I don't plan to be away anytime soon.

[smellymummy]

if this is about the 'iron civer', i say no restarts. does the really good civ player really need to restart or just be able to figure out how to use the start area properly.

If my first start doesnt have a cow or wheat, I could just easily say restart. Everyone in a single game could. it can make for lots of potential restarts, and lots of time being wasted

I just think it would be a shame to have to allow delaying playing because one or more players wants to use the games randomness to get an edge over the other players.

[alexman]

Can I play too?

I like the idea of an AU MP mod for this.

[marcuspeddle]

I vote for no restarts. It adds an extra challenge to the game. "Let's see . . . I'm on a desert island in the middle of the ocean. How do I build a civilisation here?"