March Madness! - Page 3

sabrewolf · April 12, 2004, 15:34

if it's not too late, i'd like to join in too...

so far i've been playing my turn every single day in time (when i got it during the scheduled hours)... smellymummy can surely acknowledge that

i'm not planning any holidays soon and except if all my 3 computers break down at once, i shouldn't have problems with crashes and virus's

Rommel2D · April 13, 2004, 01:30

You're number 13 sabrewolf, we need at least 3 more before the games start up. (Considering how intent you've been to get in fast PBEM games, I'm surprised it took you this long to show up here. I was about to send you an engraved invitation. :-)

Assuming everyone is still hanging with us patiently, we could use one more player from each region [Europe(/Africa), Americas, and Pacific/Asia] to fill all games with localized groupings. We should have a news item (!) posted soon that will help fill the rest of the slots in.

Over the rest of the week, I'll be compiling a list of exploits and posting them over in the PBEM forum, along with a new thread to help finalize the tournament set-up.

Jon Shafer · April 13, 2004, 02:43

I will join as long as the games move fast. I've been in far too many 1 turn-per-week or slower games.

My time zone is GMT -7.

I suggest we use the rules made for the MZO MPDG, which is a competitive team PBEM game which covers pretty much all of the bad PBEM exploits. I will try to find a link to it soon...

Jon Shafer · April 13, 2004, 02:47

Quote:

Here is the banned exploit list from the game:

================================================== ==
The following is a list of some known exploits. Note that these are not all the exploits, so if an exploit doesn't appear here, it is still illegal. The administator may edit this list as exploits are discovered/fixed.
1. Alliance tricks

Basically the idea of most points in this section revolves around two teams flipping back and forth between peace and war to abuse certain game mechanics.

1.1 Getting double-duty out of artillery and Workers

Two (or more) teams can get double (triple...) use of bombardment units and Workers by using the units on their respective turns, then letting their "enemy" capture and use them in turn. When facing an alliance of two civs with 20 Catapults among them, it's quite disconcerting to have to face 40 rounds of bombardment.

The simple solution is to require alliances and peace treaties to be respected through in-game diplomacy.

1.2 Sharing a Luxury or Strategic resource

Two teams can get the use of a single resource by repeated gifting and then cancelling of the trade. One Iron should only supply one civ at a time.

Repeated cancellation of trade is okay for supplying bursts of a resource for a civ upgrade, as long as it is not also being used for making a dual supply out of one resource.

1.3 Generating Leaders and Golden Ages by sacrificing cheap units

A team can build a bunch of Warriors and let another team slaughter them with Elites, in hopes of generating a Great Leader. This is actually quite costly, but the results can be dramatic (fast Forbidden Palace or Palace) if the teams get lucky.

The same applies to the generation of golden ages through the use of war with allies.

The solution to this one is the same as in 1.1.

1.4 Declaring war for happiness

Two teams can declare war on each other for purposes of generating a little Happiness, which can lead to increased production through WLTKD.

1.5 Exchanging map/minimap information before Navigation.

In Conquests, map trading is pushed back to Astronomy. If two teams can exchange maps out-of-game, the Seafaring trait becomes a lot less attractive.

2. Metagame tricks

2.1 Reloading to alter unwanted random results

It is possible to alter the results of combat (even with preserve random seed turned on) by reloading the save and playing out the turn slightly differently (i.e. by attacking in a different order, or basically by playing around with things that trigger the RNG). This can result in finding highly one-sided battles, and the appearance of an inordinate number of Elites and Great Leaders.

The simple solution is to require each team to open the save only once. This means that only one sequence of moves/orders is allowed to be viewed per save.

2.2 Manipulating a savegame file

Crafty players use the PBEM savegames to obtain information, or worse.

Again, let's play Civ3. If we allow tools like MapStat, then the door is wide open for any other file-manipulation program, which is a can of worms.

2.3 Loading a save while zoomed out

A team's turn-player can configure his or her game to be zoomed out, then load a PBEM savegame, which can reveal certain facts about the previous team's location.

Solution: all teams must agree to zoom in before loading the savegame and/or zoom in before saving the game.

2.4 Renaming units/cities to confuse/mislead opponents

Cities can be renamed to names of techs ('Monotheism') or sums of Gold ('210 Gold') or anything else that can be traded in the diplomacy screen. This allows a team to screw over another in a very weird way.

Worker and Settler names can be interchanged to hide their identities in stacks (since their stats are the same). Units with identical stats can be renamed for the same effect (Enkidu Warriors and Spearmen, Ancient Cavalry and Gallic Swordsmen).

Units/cities, therefore, may not be renamed for the specific purpose of fooling opponents.

3. Game Mechanics tricks

3.1 Fortifying a ship without any movement points left to obtain extra vision radius

A ship that fortifies sees an extra 1 tile in all directions at the beginning of the next turn. This can be accomplished by waking up the passengers of a ship (if there are any), and giving the Fortify All order.

3.2 Hitting F1 to change production

It is possible to use F1 to go into city views and change production before a city has been reached in the pre-turn production queue. This can result in tech-enabled units and Wonders being completed the very turn the tech is researched, or production to be changed in response to an enemy's actions (like Walls if a stack moves toward a specific city and not another).

Let all cities finish their growth/production phases, and only enter the city views when the first unit is highlighted and ready to move. This does away with tricks like avoiding riots, using tiles twice per turn, and other such nonsense.

3.3 Using GoTo to get extra movement

The last civ in the turn order can issue a GoTo command to a unit, and have that unit move twice before the next turn begins. This is very strong in war-time, and benefits one team only.

3.4 Chaining naval transports to quickly move land units across water

It is possible to wake a land unit at sea, and transfer it from one transport to another. Given enough ships, a chain can be created to instantaneously move units across bodies of water (by ending in port).

3.5 Teleporting units by abandoning or gifting cities

A team can instantaneously transport units from any city back to their capital by simply disbanding it or gifting it to another team. This results in very weird strategy.

3.6 Accepting a Peace Treaty from a civ then immediately declaring war

A team at war with another can accept the latter's Peace Treaty, then declare war afterward in order to eliminate War Weariness from that civ. This results in a huge advantage if the peace-seeking team is not aware of the trick.

================================================== ===

Aqualung71 · April 13, 2004, 03:58

I will give it a go, if there's still a place available. Timezone is GMT +9.

I've never played MP before, so I'm not really sure how strategy differs from SP, and what tricks players use...nor do I know much about how PBEM works. Still, I'd like to try if you can fit me in.

Cheers!

Jon Shafer · April 13, 2004, 04:34

Only need 1 more to start.

That is, if everyone who has posted here is still active... which is doubtful.

I don't want to be waiting 2+ days for each turn or we'll never figure out who this "Iron Civver" is.

alexman · April 13, 2004, 06:31

That's a pretty good exploit list.

I'm not sure I agree about ship chaining being an exploit though, but I'm fine either way. Also, there is no mention of using the arrow buttons to change citizen allocation during the build phase.

sabrewolf · April 13, 2004, 06:39

i think the alliance tricks are not going to be a problem, if we just forbid wars between allies.
what happens if you attack a player you're in a locked alliance with? maybe disabling submarines may ensure no by-mistake-wars.
are the war-declaring turn numbers stored in the SAV file?

i agree with alexman on the ship chaining "exploit". it's quite difficult to set up the ships to be on the right position and it's a lot of micromanaging. iirc, it's allowed in the GoTM games

marcuspeddle · April 13, 2004, 07:02

And sinking just one of those ships ruins the whole thing

Unless someone wants to build destroyers to protect every ship in the chain.

Flandrien · April 13, 2004, 07:26

I like the idea of a tournament.
Count me in.

edit: you can contact me kris.maesatpi.be

Paddy · April 13, 2004, 08:43

looks like we are getting some numbers

bloody marvelous

sabrewolf · April 13, 2004, 13:08

my email-address for the game: sabrewolf AT freesurf DOT ch

Dominae · April 13, 2004, 13:20

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
Also, there is no mention of using the arrow buttons to change citizen allocation during the build phase.

It's subsumed under 3.2 (hitting F1); the proposed fix prevents using the arrow keys during the upkeep phase.

Also, note that since C3C 1.15, 2.3 (zooming out) is not longer a problem.

Dominae, wondering if he should end his Civ3 hiatus to participate

Paddy · April 13, 2004, 13:28

Dominae, you know you would be more than welcome...

yeah go on, do it

it is all good

Harovan · April 13, 2004, 13:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
Dominae, wondering if he should end his Civ3 hiatus to participate

I don't see mine as a dogma either. I played 2 or 3 ancient+medieval ages during easter. How could I possibly rant about 1.22 if I didn't play it? Just kidding.

Paddy · April 13, 2004, 13:50

Sir Ralph... playing Civ on a holiday weekend

that is great to hear

Harovan · April 13, 2004, 16:49

A least I was trying.

I quit them all in the industrial age, though, for reasons I repeated ad nauseam.

Paddy · April 13, 2004, 17:50

good to see you in there having a go old chap

bloody marvelous

marcuspeddle · April 13, 2004, 19:48

Do we have enough players now? My e-mail is masuro33 at hotmail dot com

Aqualung71 · April 13, 2004, 21:21

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
i think the alliance tricks are not going to be a problem, if we just forbid wars between allies.
what happens if you attack a player you're in a locked alliance with?

There are locked alliances in PBEM games?

Paddy · April 14, 2004, 00:53

Quote:

Originally posted by aqua_lung

There are locked alliances in PBEM games?

indeed there are locked alliances in PBEM

most of the time you need to get into the Editor to set them up.

it is all good

Rommel2D · April 14, 2004, 03:53

I don't know if I'll have any time to do much before Friday night, but here's a quick note:

Trip, Thrill-err-aqua_lung, and Flandrian fill out the list of intial entrants (conveniently in the correct time zones :-). I wouldn't be surprised if somebody was no longer available (I noticed LzPrst was MIA from another game a few days ago...), so there's a good chance you can get in Dominae. If not right away, we might try to summon you from hiatus with the Dom signal in case someone needs to drop out, if you wouldn't mind taking over someone else's game.

For a tease like Sir Ralph, all we can do is put him on permenant probation... :-P

To verify everyone who is still seeking to become The Iron Civillian , please PM me with at least your email, and include any schedule information not yet mentioned in the thread, that you wish considered. Anybody not responding to this request within 24 hours will drop in priority for tournament entry!

smellymummy · April 14, 2004, 04:24

bold and red warning

better PM asap! (i know i will)

marcuspeddle · April 14, 2004, 04:39

I did. I hope he got it - there was a big delay when I sent . . . . .

sabrewolf · April 14, 2004, 06:03

PMed you...

rommel, please confirm the definate applications in the starting post so we know if our PMs arrived safely

Rommel2D · April 14, 2004, 11:49

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
rommel, please confirm the definate applications in the starting post so we know if our PMs arrived safely

Done.

It's been a month since the thread started- I just want to make sure no one has fallen alseep already... :-)

Jon Shafer · April 14, 2004, 12:07

You might want to give some of the other entrants a reminder. This thread started a long time ago so a lot of people who signed up probably aren't posting or looking at this thread any more.

sabrewolf · April 14, 2004, 15:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Rommel2D

Done.

It's been a month since the thread started- I just want to make sure no one has fallen alseep already... :-)

thanks.

btw, concerning the rules... i wouldn't mind having a bit more space than 4civs on tiny, especially as many strategy geniuses are playing

... except if 40% water really works, then it's different

Harovan · April 14, 2004, 16:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Rommel2D
For a tease like Sir Ralph, all we can do is put him on permenant probation... :-P

Tease me all you want, but even if I wished, I could not participate. For reasons I don't want to mention, my ability to play contiguously or even to post on Apolyton is at least in the next time seriously in question.

Rommel2D · April 15, 2004, 02:26

Starting at the IDL and working west, here are the preliminary foursomes:

Game A
ricketyclick
Paddy the Scot
aqua_lung
Masuro

Game B
Iron Jackson
Conqueror
Flandrien
LzPrst

Game C
Andydog
sabrewolf
Mickeyj
Moonbars

Game D
alexman
Trip
smellymummy
Soltz

The Europeans have made a strong preliminary showing, but are slow on the confimation...

We are past the 24 hour mark and I have yet to hear from:
Soltz

Dominae, if you want in, there's a spot for you.

Working on the 24 hour premise, I've PMed the last 4 entrants. If a new player posts here and a spot is still open 24 hours later, that new player is in. So on and so forth, until we have the full 16.