Socialist claim victory in Spain

[PLATO]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4522638/

International News

Early results favor Spanish opposition
Vote overshadowed by Madrid train bombings

Peter Dejong / AP
Voters check their names on posted lists before voting at San Isidro School in Madrid, Spain, on Sunday.
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 3:58 p.m. ET March 14, 2004MADRID, Spain -

Spain’s ruling Popular Party looked headed for defeat in elections overshadowed by the Madrid terror bombings, with the opposition Socialists poised to score spectacular gains, according to partial results.

With 56 percent of the votes counted, the conservatives — who had been projected to win comfortably before the bombings — fell from 183 seats in the last 350-seat legislature to 146. The Socialists soared from 125 to 163.

Turnout was high at 76 percent. Voters expressed anger with the government, accusing it of provoking the Madrid attacks by supporting the U.S.-led war in Iraq, which most Spaniards opposed.

Earlier, two exit polls gave the Socialists the most votes, while another put the ruling Popular Party — favorite in opinion polls up to a week ago — in front.

Critics have said Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar invited the attention of Osama bin Laden’s terror group by allying Spain with Washington in the invasion that ousted Saddam Hussein.

Fueling anger were suspicions that the government withheld information in the investigation to avoid political fallout from the Thursday bombings, which killed 200 people and injured 1,500. The government had initially blamed the Basque separatist group ETA.

The exit polls suggested the Socialists had done much better than expected and that no single party would emerge with an absolute majority in parliament, meaning whoever wins most seats will probably need help from another party to form a government.

Analysts had warned the Popular Party could be rocked if voters believed Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaida had mounted its first attack in Europe.

Telecinco television’s exit poll showed the Popular Party winning 40.6 percent of the vote to 38.3 percent for the Socialists. That would mean the Popular Party taking 169 seats, short of the 176 needed for an absolute majority.

State television had the Socialists winning 41.4 percent of the vote and the Popular Party 36 percent. Private radio Cadena Ser’s poll gave the Socialists 40.5 percent and the Popular Party 39.5 percent.

Before the attacks, polls gave ruling the Popular Party and its candidate, Mariano Rajoy, a 3-5 percentage point lead over the Socialists and their leader Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero in the race for the 350-seat Congress of Deputies. Prime Minister Aznar is not seeking a third term; in the outgoing legislature, his party had 183 seats.

Feelings of ‘anguish, sadness, horror’
Many Spaniards entered voting booths grim-faced, and some wore handwritten badges that said “peace.”

“Spain has never voted in such a tragic situation. There’s a feeling of anguish, sadness, horror,” said Joaquin Leguina, a former president of Madrid’s regional government.

“I didn’t intend to vote, but changed my mind,” said Javi Martin, 30, who works for a TV station in Madrid. “And not because of the attacks, but because of the responsibility of the Popular Party. They gave out information drop by drop. It would have benefited them if it were ETA.”

Some evidence points toward al-Qaida role
Evidence of possible al-Qaida involvement grew after the government announced finding a videotape in a trash can Saturday on which a man says the Islamic terror group was punishing Spain for its support of the Iraq war. An Arabic-speaking man called a Madrid TV station to say the tape was there, Interior Minister Angel Acebes said.

Earlier in the day, three Moroccans and two Indians were arrested over the bombings.

Spain’s El Pais newspaper, citing the interior ministry, reported that the Moroccans are linked to Abu Dahdah, the jailed alleged leader of al-Qaida’s Spanish cell. Authorities in Morocco said Sunday they could not confirm that.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday it is too early to say whether al-Qaida was behind the bombings.

“It’s just premature to make a judgment. I don’t think we know enough, and the Spanish are very good at these kinds of investigations. And I’m sure they’ll get to the bottom of it,” Powell said.

Is this a political victory for al-Qaida ? Does the coaltion begin to unravel now? Or does this even matter?

[Bereta_Eder]

Congratulations to the socialists and to the people of Spain

[PLATO]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Congratulations to the socialists and to the people of Spain

Well...yes. Congratulations.


BUT, doesn't the fact that al-Qaida may have influenced the outcome bother you?

[Dr. Nick]

*cheers*

[The Templar]

We're going to Madrid,
then we're going to London,
then we're going to Washington D.C.
Yaaaaaaarghhh!

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by PLATO


Well...yes. Congratulations.


BUT, doesn't the fact that al-Qaida may have influenced the outcome bother you?

No. The Partido Popular support of the american blood bath in Iraq was illegal and immoral and they have been punished by that in the elections. They ignored their own people and have payed in true democracy.

I feel very sad about the terrorist attacks but if ONE positive message can come out of them is that the PEOPLE can regain the power it was denied from them.

So Hurray for the socialists and the Spanish.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by PLATO
Is this a political victory for al-Qaida ? Does the coaltion begin to unravel now? Or does this even matter?

How is this a victory for al-Qaida?

And what coalition? x>80% of Spaniards opposed the damn Iraq thing to begin with, the Popular Party was already in opposition to the popular wishes. I.e. the coalition wasn't real. Now the party takes a hit for its defiance of the popular will. And it doesn't help that the Popular Party looks like it engaged in a cover-up.

Quit being such a wingnut.

[Kontiki]

Man, Fez's head is going to explode.

[Harry Tuttle]

So the conservatives got voted out because people think they invited the attacks by taking on the terrorists... That seems like the anger in the situation is a bit misplaced. Also, the attacks were planned to influence the election, which obviously happened. Is this necessarily a good thing?

[PLATO]

Did you read the article? Before the bombing the conservatives were expected to easily win. This is not punishment of the existing government for not caving into the liberal, despot supporting rantings of the ill informed anti-iraqi Freedom crowd. This is a populace caving in to terrorism. A bad precedent for sure.

[Wernazuma III]

Is this a political victory for al-Qaida ? Does the coaltion begin to unravel now? Or does this even matter?

How is this a political victory of Al-Quaeda. It's the loss of the PP who tried to manipulate the public opinion with the ETA link and pressure on embassies and journalists to speak only of ETA etc. and their strategy went boomerang. Hooray!

[Dr. Nick]

The PP was facing quite a bit of opposition for quite a while. While the attacks and the subsequent actions of the government might have tilted the balance, a socialist victory isn't too surprising.

[joncha]

I will post this again here, without comment:

A PM from Fez/Giancarlo

I'm through
Just convey this message for me, and please be accurate.

My country has made a big mistake. The victory of the PSOE highlights this and I will be renouncing my passport in due course aswell as my dual citizenship. I feel that I have lost faith in my country and the people have handed the terrorists a victory. Tis a truly a sad day in the history of my country. After this whole issue, I will not be returning to apolyton as I am exhausted.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kontiki
Man, Fez's head is going to explode.

I was thinking the same thing.


EDIT: Joncha,

[PLATO]

Originally posted by The Templar
Quit being such a wingnut.

You crack me up!

(Something about a pot and a kettle comes to mind)

How is this a political victory of Al-Quaeda.

They changed the outcome of the election through the use of terror. How is it anything other than a victory for al-Qaida?

[The Templar]

Originally posted by PLATO
Did you read the article? Before the bombing the conservatives were expected to easily win. This is not punishment of the existing government for not caving into the liberal, despot supporting rantings of the ill informed anti-iraqi Freedom crowd. This is a populace caving in to terrorism. A bad precedent for sure.

And polls showed Max Cleland beating Saxby by 10 points the weekend before the Senate elections in GA. Lots of people say this is because Diebod voting machines were tampered with.

Polls don't always reflect what's going on.

[Kidicious]

Originally posted by PLATO
BUT, doesn't the fact that al-Qaida may have influenced the outcome bother you?

People just realize that al-qaida is not the only cause of terrorism. There are deeper issues. If there is to be real long term change the left will be the one to lead us there.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by PLATO
They changed the outcome of the election through the use of terror. How is it anything other than a victory for al-Qaida?

Sure, and the attacks of 9-11 didn't change the political landscape in the US? How can you expect that people don't think about such a large terrorist attack and it may effect their decisions...?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by PLATO

They changed the outcome of the election through the use of terror. How is it anything other than a victory for al-Qaida?

There is no way they can lose, using that logic. No matter how the poll results where altered, it would bebecause of the bombings.

[yaroslav]

The defeat of PP is related to the way the have informed about the terror attack in the last three days: many Spaniards feel that the goverment has tried to hide that it was Al-Quaeda in order to no suffer electorally...

What is ironic, because only a few morons blame PP for the attack, but the majority blame them for hiding the information...

[GePap]

The PP had told the Spanish people that backing the invasion of Iraq as part of the war on terror, would make the Spanish people safer, hence even if the vast majority of Spaniards opposed the war, it was the right thing to do to keep them safe.

The bombings last week showed this to be false. The war in Iraq did not make the people of Spain safer. NOW, we get to an chicken and egg question: did Al Qaeda attack becuase Spain went to Iraq? Or would Al Qaeda have attacked anyways? Right now, no way to prove either. BUT, whichever is true, the PP contention that going along with the US into Iraq proved false becuase either it a. made Spain a target when it was not one before or b. did nothing to prevent Al Qaeda attacking Spain when it wanted to.

Is this a political victory for Al Qaeda? No. Spain will continue to aid the US in the war on terror (ie, the internaional hunt for AL Qeada which begun on 9/11). Spain will act to destory the cells that carried this out and bring those who did it to justice. It is a hit though at the Spanish conservatives and European allies of the BUsh admin. that went along with Bush in the claim that Iraq was an integral battle in the fight vs. AL Qaeda. NO evidence of that contention has come to light yet.

[Dr Strangelove]

I can sympathize with the Spanish people's displeasure at being involved in a war in Iraq inititated under false pretenses. Frankly I'd like to see Geo. Bush impeached after we get our troops out, which I hope will be this year. OTOH I have no quarrel with the legitimate war on OBL's organization. By knuckling in to pressure from al-Qaeda Spain may be inviting outright extortion. Will the socialists be able to resist? Probably, but what will OBL's men do if their demands are thwarted next time?

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by PLATO
Did you read the article? Before the bombing the conservatives were expected to easily win. This is not punishment of the existing government for not caving into the liberal, despot supporting rantings of the ill informed anti-iraqi Freedom crowd. This is a populace caving in to terrorism. A bad precedent for sure.

Or another way to look at it:

You have a right-wing government that decided to actively involve itself in the war in Iraq, believing that it was the right move in the "war on terrorism". One of the oft-cited claims of those involved in Iraq is that such action made the world safer overall and put a dent into the terrorist network. Then, all of a sudden, Spain is hit by a massive terrorist attack. A government that's already on somewhat shaky ground and that claims it's taking steps to make everyone safer seems to have lost it's biggest barganing chip, so they lose the election.

Note - I'm not passing judgement over the any political party in Spain, as I really don't know diddly about them. I'm just saying that this is another way to look at the events of the last few days.

[Bereta_Eder]

People realize who the main cause for their tragedy was. Iraq had nothing to do with combatting terrorism but actually re-enforced it. The people punished the real guilty onces.

[Bereta_Eder]

People realize who the main cause for their tragedy was. Iraq had nothing to do with combatting terrorism but actually re-enforced it. The people punished the real guilty onces. And will of course punish the guilty onces as well.

[Dr. Nick]

I guess being affected is only ok when you cast ballots in favour of neocons.

[yaroslav]

The defeat of PP is related to the way the have informed about the terror attack in the last three days: many Spaniards feel that the goverment has tried to hide that it was Al-Quaeda in order to no suffer electorally...

What is ironic, because only a few morons blame PP for the attack, but the majority blame them for hiding the information...

[Bereta_Eder]

yeah that played an important part as well

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by PLATO

They changed the outcome of the election through the use of terror. How is it anything other than a victory for al-Qaida?

Al Qaeda influenced the US political landscape, it influenced your laws, and it influenced your behavior.
So I guess one could say Al Qaeda triumphed over the United States?

[Az]

So paiktis, do you think that Al Qaeda attacked Spain to avenge Iraq?

I think it was the PP stupid "it's ETA" tactic that led to their demise in the elections. It was an obvious lie.