Socialist claim victory in Spain

[Alfonso]

Where is Giancarlo "Fez" now?

[Q Classic]

he's sent a pm saying that he's ashamed of spain and that he will not return.

or something to that effect.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Alfonso
Where is Giancarlo "Fez" now?

Too devastated to speak. Claims he will renounce his Spanish citizenship becuase of this.

[Arrian]

Like I said before, I find it difficult to believe that the country was really going to re-elect the party that took them into Iraq when ~80% of the population was against it. I mean, that's just a huge number.

Blair gambled (and may pay), but at least the numbers in Britain weren't quite so bad (what was it, 2/3 anti, 1/3 pro?). Bush had 60/40 pro here, and the major opposition party went along, thus hampering their ability to criticise. They can still say "they did it the wrong way" or "the intelligence data was misleading" or even "Bush lied! (and we believed him)" but cannot really run as an anti-war party.

Anyway, committing your country to a war 80% oppose seems dumb, especially if the hoped-for benificial outcome of said war depends on the U.S. government doing something right.

-Arrian

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap


And if AQ succeeds, what does this say about the state of Homeland security under Bush?

Insufficient.

So, while we are at it, lets elect Kerry and repeal the Patriot Act to improve security.

Kerry, you can trust him to keep you safe.

[Giancarlo]

Not devastated. In fact I'm willing to accept this. If that banker guy from BBVA becomes the economy minister, cool with that. I'll support this government even but with great reluctance. Afterall, it was the PSOE that started the capitalist reforms. So you commies can stop boasting about it.

Like I said before, I find it difficult to believe that the country was really going to re-elect the party that took them into Iraq when ~80% of the population was against it. I mean, that's just a huge number.

Most polls said Spanish people were willing to forgive the ruling party and the PP had a lead of 5%. But that was before the attack.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
i don't know if it would lead to a kerry victory.

if anything, it would probably keep things just as contentious as they were, with bush pointing a finger at kerry and saying that with him in power, you're going to get more of this, while kerry will point at bush and say that with him in power, you're going to get more of this.

I don't know what effect it will have on the election. All I know is that al Qaeda will give its all to time a major attack just before the election.

[Arrian]

[Q Classic]

and you're already assuming that it's a given, and you're already responding with precisely what the bush camp will say.

and actually, you're responding with precisely what the kerry camp will say, except for the slight name change.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
So yes, for the west, standing up for their ally the USA does come with risks, that if they fight the war on terror alongside us they might also become a target of the terrorists. Spain in the face of these risks has chosen the path of retreat.

Are you aware that France is one of the staunchest allies of the US in the war on terror? That you can take part to the war on terror with police and secret services action?

Besides, the Spaniards have a strong experience with terrorism, with ETA scourging the country for more than 30 years. The PSOE was never weak toward the terrorists, but it did try to remove grounds for ETA activity: as such, Spain has become a federal country, and the Basque country is autonomous. This Basque autonomy is strongly enjoyed by the Basques themselves, most of them are now loathing the ETA, whose violent and mafia-like methods are now useless to further the agenda.
However, despite "giving in" to the terrorists (or rather, responding to the valid agenda that could only express itself through terrorism, thus making the terrorist methods void), the PSOE was never too weak on the ETA itself, at the contrary. There was a scandal a few years back about anti-ETA squadrons that were way too reminiscent of past death squadrons, and felipe Gonzales was the weakling supporting them

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Spiffor
There was a scandal a few years back about anti-ETA squadrons that were way too reminiscent of past death squadrons, and felipe Gonzales was the weakling supporting them

Hmm that seems like something I would support..

Gonzalez wasn't really a bad guy though... the capitalist reforms, the death squads... heh..

Anyways, I'll stick around a little while longer.

[Ned]

Spiffor, France will then be attacked until it stops supporting the war on terror.

[Q Classic]

japan, skorea, england, portugal, and tuvalu haven't been attacked yet.

[Q Classic]

terrorists will try to strike at anything.
they will only succeed where there is opportunity.

if another terrorist attack comes here to the states, it will not be because of a lack of effort on aq's part, but because of an unfortunate lapse in our vigilance. if france can defend itself with its secret police and what not, more power to them; if they are never attacked, they will have done their duty--and we will also never know how many times attempts were made.

[Ned]

I still find Kerry's silence on the Spanish elections to be deafening in its meaning.

[Q Classic]

what do you think of bush's congratulatory call to the socialist winner? especially in light of the fact that he didn't give schroeter the same courtesy?

especially when this guy is about as against the war as schroeter was?

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ugh... I don't like what the Spanish (new) PM is saying. Fact is, you can be against the war, but pulling out now will mostly likely hurt the IRAQIs more than the US! The US will look at everyone leaving, say screw this (at least some candidate will) and we'll pull out way before time, say we got Saddam, so we won and that's that.

I wish both sides would put politics aside and not screw over a whole country because dick-waivers on both sides of the Atlantic would rather seem 'right' than actually help out.

Yes, let's hope the "coalition of the willing" under the lead of the US turns the occupation of Iraq into a mission under UN flag and all "old Europe" will love to participate in resolving the difficult situation which really would become a mess if internat. forces pull out. But as the US said they needed no one to allow the attack I guess they don't need anyone to occupy either. As long as the US say that they did the dirty job and thus take the lead it seems perfectly OK for Spain to pull out and not wanting to be part of this.
Again, I really hope that a UN force will replace the coalition forces. and don't envision a chaos in Iraq.

[Q Classic]

it sounds awfully like a slight to me. rather deafeningly, too.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
japan, skorea, england, portugal, and tuvalu haven't been attacked yet.

Japan and S. Korea hardly fit the profile of "crusader states."

I think al Qaeda is waiting for elections to before it attacks. England hasn't had elections in a while.

[Giancarlo]

But what about all that UN corruption? Can we trust the UN?

[DinoDoc]

Why should he care how the Spanish vote? The more interesting question you could ask him would be to list the foreign leaders he keeps talking about.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
what do you think of bush's congratulatory call to the socialist winner? especially in light of the fact that he didn't give schroeter the same courtesy?

especially when this guy is about as against the war as schroeter was?

I think Bush is trying to pull this one out. He hasn't given up on Spain.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned


Insufficient.

So, while we are at it, lets elect Kerry and repeal the Patriot Act to improve security.

Kerry, you can trust him to keep you safe.

If AQ succeeds, what does that tell you about the effectiveness of the Patriot Act under the hands of Bush?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Ned


Japan and S. Korea hardly fit the profile of "crusader states."

The South Koreans are sending 3,000 troops to Iraq I believe. And Japan sent some troops (which is unprecendented, but they are mostly for humanitarian/reconstruction though they are armed).

[Ned]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
terrorists will try to strike at anything.
they will only succeed where there is opportunity.

if another terrorist attack comes here to the states, it will not be because of a lack of effort on aq's part, but because of an unfortunate lapse in our vigilance. if france can defend itself with its secret police and what not, more power to them; if they are never attacked, they will have done their duty--and we will also never know how many times attempts were made.

Possibly.

But the events in Spain suggest a much more sophisticated strategy. Much more sophisticated.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
what do you think of bush's congratulatory call to the socialist winner? especially in light of the fact that he didn't give schroeter the same courtesy?

especially when this guy is about as against the war as schroeter was?

Spain is still in Iraq-why antagonize people needlessly? (I just know someone will jump on this)

The South Koreans are sending 3,000 troops to Iraq I believe. And Japan sent some troops (which is unprecendented, but they are mostly for humanitarian/reconstruction though they are armed).

I honestly can't see an AQ cell getting a foothold in either Japan or SK, simply becuase of their treatment of non-white foreigners-heck, of each other.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by GePap
Spain is still in Iraq-why antagonize people needlessly? (I just know someone will jump on this)

[GePap]

*hypnotic*

[Q Classic]

bush's slight towards germany is deafeaning in meaning. germany could have been at least as useful as the spaniards. or could it be that our boy bush is finally learning how useful friends and allies can be, along with decent diplomacy?

skorea has elections coming up later this year. as does america. and yet, i don't expect terrorist attacks at all. this is not to say we shouldn't be prepared, but to be in a sort of panic state about it, as you seem to be, ned, is rather silly. OMFG OMFG OMFG THERE WAS A BOMBING IN SPAIN RIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTIONS SO WE'RE DEFINITELY GOING TO HAVE ONE TOO!!!!!!!

calm down. put your trust in our boys. we're not going to have an attack, because as odd as some suggestions might have been (duct tape and plastic sheets), or as blatantly useless as others are (huge machines in the airports), i think our defense will do just fine.

or do you not have faith in bush your Dear Leader?

now, one note. i don't see an attack in either of the east asian nations simply because they have absolutely tiny muslim populations, both are rather high-tech, and one has been in a seige mentality for years with experience in terrorism, while the other has had its share of terrorist attacks.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
But what about all that UN corruption? Can we trust the UN?

I thought you wanted to turn your back on Poly...