What to do next

[Jonash]

XVIII Century looks very empty if you check out Spanish Civ site. Some scenarious that focus on Europe under that age could be quite needed.

Michael Jezsenkas 7 years war is a bit dated and certainly not one of his best scenarios,

Maybe a scenario focusing on Prussia during the century?

[Mercator]

Originally posted by fairline
how about expanding on that with a map of the whole of S. and C. America and a traditional civ explore and build scenario structure including the Aztecs, Mayans etc?

It looks like you need to go play JB's Conquest of Mexico... although that's mostly just Central America.

I have a file on my computer with a whole list of scenarios I'd like to make. Some with rather detailed ideas of how to use all sorts of Civ2 features. Few of them are really meant to be "serious" historical scenarios, though. I'd post all my ideas, but secretly I want to make all of them myself and I wouldn't want others to steal my ideas. Considering my current work rate, it would probably take me a few decades to make them all, but still...

Many of them are probably fun ideas, but wouldn't really work as scenarios... For instance, I'd love to make a War of the Worlds scenario (based on the book, so only situated in London), but the aliens were pretty much supreme and were overcome by bacteria or so. So I'm not sure if that could really be turned into a fun scenario to play. Maybe as the aliens, conquer as much as possible before you die. As the humans you could really only run away...

I'll second academia, though. I'd love to see an ID4-style global/US alien invasion scenario.

[Elok]

Well, in WotW, there was an idle dreamer near the end of the book who talked on and on to the narrator about a grand scheme to live in the sewers with a select group of survivors, waiting for an opportunity to take over an alien craft so they could fight back. He just turned out to be a wannabe despot. Posit a situation where it wasn't so, and the bacteria were incompatible with the martians' systems.

After all, the humans did get some licks in before getting overwhelmed in the book, like the steamship Thunder Child, which blew up one of their Walkers while it was wading through the sea. It'd be an incredibly uphill battle the human player would have to win by sheer cunning. As I recall, the martians had to suck the life directly out of the humans to survive, so it might be smart to turn their more powerful units into settlers. If you wanted to simulate the more limited toll of microbes, stick the Martians with Despotism so they grow more slowly and inefficiently, while the humans had wide government options. If you stuck the Statue of Liberty in a size-zero city at the edge of the world, for example, would it still work?

[Mercator]

But I wouldn't imagine the Martians would grow at all, the scenario would be too small-scale for that. They'd only depend on the sites their pods landed. And they'd probably even only have a limited amount of units.

The humans wouldn't really be able to change government either, although maybe a change to "martial law" could be represented by a government switch.

Maybe the population could be represented by a different civ than the military. With massive amounts of scared civilians running around, blocking the way too, but all running away from the threat (with lots of MoveUnit events).

But then... I tend to imagine my scenarios as inventive graphical and technical wonders where the player ends up with little to do but watch as the scenario unfolds itself.

[jasev]

Stefan, I've included your "Fire and Roses" and "The Lost Paradise" in my last SCS update, as you asked for. Sorry for the delay.

[Arthedain]

Originally posted by fairline
Some really excellent ideas for scenarios here! The history of the Incan empire sounds very interesting; how about expanding on that with a map of the whole of S. and C. America and a traditional civ explore and build scenario structure including the Aztecs, Mayans etc? Think Kull's Seeds of Greatness or End of the Bronze Age with a South American setting. Jaguar Warriors, pyramids, human sacrifice, city building - all topped off with a final 'alien invasion' in the form of the conquistadores.

That's an excellent idea Fairline!

[Varwnos]

It sounds too much like the alpha centauri plot though, and i didnt like the 'inevitable superforce arrival-rebirth' plot :|

hm once i had the very weird idea of making a scenario about Kafka's literature. But that was yesterday, i dont think that anymore!

some more ideas that (to the best of my knowledge) havent been done:

-the unification of France

-Balcan wars (1912-1913)

-Minoan supremacy era (very interesting!)

-Rise of Carthago (fantasy i guess)

-the christening of the balcan slavs (8th century)

-hypothetical "first sea voyages" scen (very interesting as well!)

i am thinking of working on some plot about the primitive phobias of medieval peasants, it should be about a village that is cut off from the vast empire due to the ever ongoing frontier wars, and the people there are quickly sucked into their fear of what might dwell the nearby forest

[Elok]

Originally posted by Mercatore Uno
But I wouldn't imagine the Martians would grow at all, the scenario would be too small-scale for that. They'd only depend on the sites their pods landed. And they'd probably even only have a limited amount of units.

The humans wouldn't really be able to change government either, although maybe a change to "martial law" could be represented by a government switch.

Maybe the population could be represented by a different civ than the military. With massive amounts of scared civilians running around, blocking the way too, but all running away from the threat (with lots of MoveUnit events).

But then... I tend to imagine my scenarios as inventive graphical and technical wonders where the player ends up with little to do but watch as the scenario unfolds itself.

Yeah, I was suggesting a regrouping of humanity in the wake of the devastation, a la ID4 but without the corniness and in the nineteenth century. I don't like restrained scenarios much, to be honest. Civ2 wasn't designed for restricted gameplay like the dross offered by the FW X-COM scenario. Even if research is just "reformation of society," as it might be in a WotW scen, it has its purpose.

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Elok
Civ2 wasn't designed for restricted gameplay like the dross offered by the FW X-COM scenario.

And that was actually one of my favourites (of the FW scenarios)!
But your point is well-taken.

[Stefan Härtel]

OK, I'm down to this now:

-Fall of the Roman Empire
-Alien Invasion (á la War of the Worlds- that might even push me toward finish reading the book, it's been lying there half-read for a year now; or like ID4)
-Other SciFi, like completely situated on a different planet
-Incan Empire/Pre-Colombian South America
-Historical/Fantasy hybrid

I picked out of those which were named most often and seem to find most appeal. Any further contents appreciated, of course.

[fairline]

Any chance you can do all of them Stefan?

Seriously though, War of the Worlds, The Fall of the Roman Empire and Pre-Columbian S. America are all fantastic ideas.

[Elok]

I second War of the Worlds.

[curtsibling]

The war of the worlds would be cool!

I recall there was a C&C-type game of it a few years back...

It was all set on a Brit map - pretty cool!

[Varwnos]

It could be very atmosphaeric if you have red brick walls and pavement terrains, and the aliens marching in the streets or compiling their cannon infront of the unsuspected crowd but as someone already said: in the book the aliens were supreme, only the viruses got them, so you would have to change the plot a lot if this will have a high gameplay value

good luck

[POTUS]

There is a WoW scen somewhere on Civfanatics, but the humans had no chance.

[Elok]

That sounds like a really boring scenario, unless there were different factions of Martians competing to see who could enslave the most of Britain or something like that. But a drastically imbalanced two-player scenario? Yecch.

[Palaiologos]

Originally posted by academia
I think we still need a good civ2 "alien invasion" scenario. ID4, War of the Worlds style. something like that

Wasn't Curt up on something like this?

[POTUS]

Originally posted by Elok
That sounds like a really boring scenario, unless there were different factions of Martians competing to see who could enslave the most of Britain or something like that. But a drastically imbalanced two-player scenario? Yecch.

The humans were divided into British and European, versus the Martians, and the Martians were richer and had better units.

[Elok]

So, what, it was a challenge to see who'd get butchered last?

[POTUS]

Originally posted by Elok
So, what, it was a challenge to see who'd get butchered last?

No, there was no challenge for the Martians. For the humans it was to see how quickly the AI could kill you.

[Boco]

What about the Crusades!

[Varwnos]

From the wargame viewpoint a very interesting and not yet covered theme is that of the persian empire wars with India and the Byzantine empire. Many different civs
Once the king of India sent some gift to the emperor of the Byzantine Empire, for defeating Persia, thus putting an end to the seemingly endless wars. Probably this should be 6th century AD or something like that.

As for Rome: the roman civil wars havent been really covered i think, i only remember one scenario where there were two roman factions. What about the battle at Actio? (Actium in latin? some naval battle in Greece, possibly between Augustus and Antony i think)

[Elok]

Originally posted by Boco
What about the Crusades!

That clinking sound you hear is BeBro paying a hit man to shoot you...

[Gagliaudo]

varwnos: I think Hersson's on-work "HERACLIUS" could cover those events (war Byz/Pers) and that age (VI sec AD).
The question is : WHEN will it cover ???

Crusades???
Mhh, maybe it needs to put an eye on thread "The Crusades", dead long time ago... and just reborn...

Stefan: I keep on propse Fall of Roman Empire or Pre-Colombian empire-building...

[GePap]

On the notion of an Inca empire and its expansion-two of the big things the Inca did were to create a network of roads and great terraced gardens, and also they moved mass amounts of people around their empire.

On the terraces, one thing might be to create a new terrain type, which is terrace mountains, and have engineer units that can create terrace sto have mountain cities. Also, make movement very difficult without roads, and thus roads become crucial for empire building.

As for mass population movements- don't know yet how to do this in any meaningful way-moving pop. points is easy, but making it an integral part of the scenerio, no

[Palaiologos]

Had the Incas, Aztecs etc knowledge of the wheel?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Palaiologos
Had the Incas, Aztecs etc knowledge of the wheel?

Of the concept? Yes-they used it in toys. Did they use wheeled vehicles? no.

[lord of the mark]

stefan:


what i would REALLY like would be for you to go back to your old Persian history scenarios and fix the graphics bugs. They were most excellent scenarios, but unfortunately i cant play them without a big headache. Dont know how hard this would be to do, hopefully you wouldnt have to do all the work from scratch - id understand your not wanting to do that.

Also of course understand you'd like to do a new scenario

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


Of the concept? Yes-they used it in toys. Did they use wheeled vehicles? no.

IIRC Aztecs had the wheel (in toys) but no draft animals, while Incas had Llamas, but no concept of wheel. wheeled vehicles required both. Civ tech tree possibilities should be obvious.

[Varwnos]

Most european main historical periods have already been covered to death i think. The small size of the map doesnt allow for really making roads very important, unless you are focusing in a small landmass, and then you have to be minimalistic. i would really want to make cities even further away from one another in my scen, but then the map would have to be basically just Greece, and that would be boring.. On the other hand making cities appear closer to one another makes the game interesting as long as you have a balance of power, since it is a matter of crushing the bulk of the enemy army, and then just marching onwards, unless you try to balance things up artificially by eventgiven units (something i tried to do to some extenxt, and counter-balance that with eventcreated rebels when the eventscreated loyal units are killed) But generally the small map size generally prevents the "huge empire confortably waiting to be conquered" effect that war-scens centered on plots like alexander vs darius were trying to achieve.Unless ofcourse you are willing to sacrifice having many nations, but 7 nations is one of the beuties of the game, having just 2 nations would mean losing gameplay in other fronts. So its all a very delicate balance. I think that Heresson's fading lights came very close to achieving this illusion of balance, but the cost was that only one nation was really playable, and the general frustration diminished the nice effect (my personal opinnion ofcourse). Really scenario making is tough, and i can see that already

But perhaps the hardest thing is trying to make up for the lost atmosphere of a non-scenario civ2 game, where you start with just one settler, and dont know how things will turn out to be!