Radical idea about balancing air combat

player1 · March 19, 2004, 07:15

Instead of removing lethal bombardment from Bombers, how about this:

All post Riflemen infantry units (including Mech. Infantry) get AA of 1.
Reason: They all posses basic anti-air equipment.

That should give around 18% chance to 4 such units to shoot down a bomber.
And increase odds if having less then 4 Flaks or Mobile SAMs.

alexman · March 19, 2004, 09:35

I like that idea, and I actually proposed something similar for the AU mod.

This might be too radical for your mod, as it was too radical even for the AU mod.

player1 · March 19, 2004, 12:14

Maybe yes, maybe not.
We shell see...

vmxa1 · March 19, 2004, 12:31

Shot down a bomber? Helo is one thing, but unless they were using AA gear they won't shot down a bomber. The AA is represented by flak and mobile sam units.

Willem · March 19, 2004, 15:05

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Shot down a bomber? Helo is one thing, but unless they were using AA gear they won't shot down a bomber. The AA is represented by flak and mobile sam units.

I agree, the idea that some guy with nothing more than a rifle can shoot down a bomber isn't even remotely realistic.

alexman · March 19, 2004, 15:15

But (ignoring the unit graphics) one could argue that a bomber that is capable of killing a ground unit is a low-altitude tactical bomber, not a high-altitude strategic bomber, right?

And I think Infantry (the earliest unit he proposes to give AA) could be imagined to have some basic AA capabilities, in addition to rifles.

alexman · March 19, 2004, 15:37

By the way, player1, I see your birthday is no different that any other day for you; always thinking about how to improve Civ3!

Happy Birthday!

vmxa1 · March 19, 2004, 17:04

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
But (ignoring the unit graphics) one could argue that a bomber that is capable of killing a ground unit is a low-altitude tactical bomber, not a high-altitude strategic bomber, right?

And I think Infantry (the earliest unit he proposes to give AA) could be imagined to have some basic AA capabilities, in addition to rifles.

I would think that B52's kill lots of infantry and are out of of range to AA using bullets.

For bombers we are talking high level only and use of rockets is basically a flak unit. So I have no problem with flak units doing some (well I do, but I can live with it). Jets do low level support, but move too fast for guns.

Really AA is hardly able to shot down modern planes. Iroq got few the first time around and none this time (we shot friendlies with patriots).

player1 · March 19, 2004, 19:12

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
By the way, player1, I see your birthday is no different that any other day for you; always thinking about how to improve Civ3!

Happy Birthday!

Thanks!

player1 · March 19, 2004, 19:13

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
But (ignoring the unit graphics) one could argue that a bomber that is capable of killing a ground unit is a low-altitude tactical bomber, not a high-altitude strategic bomber, right?

Well, removing lethal land from Bombers is another option.

Jaybe · March 19, 2004, 20:40

On a (very) side note on something I haven't seen mentioned:

To reduce the problem of stealth fighters/bombers having high defense values when they are intercepted, just give them negative hitpoints so a veteran would have 1HP (or no HP).

The_Aussie_Lurker · March 21, 2004, 20:29

My solution is to simply have a strategic bomber, which can only do non-lethal bombardment, and a low-level bomber which has lethal bombardment, but has a much lower defense against AA units!
Whilst on the subject, though, I don't see why they can't give some air-units an 'escort' flag, so that they can escort their bombers into enemy territory-and perform air superiority vs. air superiority a la 'Battle of Britain'! Air superiority units should also be given the capacity to 'Scramble' to the defense of ground units should they come under attack from enemy units (assuming that the attack brings these air units 'within range')!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

player1 · March 22, 2004, 13:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
On a (very) side note on something I haven't seen mentioned:

To reduce the problem of stealth fighters/bombers having high defense values when they are intercepted, just give them negative hitpoints so a veteran would have 1HP (or no HP).

Or just increase interception rate to, let's say, 10% for stealth units.

Jaybe · March 22, 2004, 14:48

Quote:

Originally posted by player1
Or just increase interception rate to, let's say, 10% for stealth units.

I've been there. It basically increases the loss of your interceptors. I believe restoring the intercept rate (to whatever you want) and giving the stealths negative HP works much better to restore the pre-Conquests equation.

LzPrst · March 22, 2004, 20:43

I agree with aussie_lurker. there should be 2 bomber types, stratetic and tactical. the bomber is basically the Civ 1 bomber imported to the Civ 3 air war system, another lack of imagination from firaxis... they havent taken into consideration the possibilities of real air warfare. 1 bomber to hit building, population, infrastructure etc, and 1 to hit enemy troops. the game allows for it so why not go with it. the escort duty I'd also like to see. Like an "army" in the sky, consisting of fighters and whatever bombers you feel like. And by all means, intercept anything that comes within range for crying out loud! hmmm Maybe there should be a city impr. that gives your interceptors a HIGH chance of seeing incoming planes (does the radar tower work like that already? it should be upgraded or cumulative or something cause I find it useless)

Xorbon · March 23, 2004, 23:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
On a (very) side note on something I haven't seen mentioned:

To reduce the problem of stealth fighters/bombers having high defense values when they are intercepted, just give them negative hitpoints so a veteran would have 1HP (or no HP).

Pretty good idea!

I think I might incude this in my personal mod!

The designers added defence to the stealth units so they wouldn't be so easily shot down by AA. This has the side effect of making them tougher against interceptors as well. Giving them lowered HPs could help bring back some of the old 'balance'.