AU502 DAR4: Steam Power

[ducki]

This is the fourth DAR thread for AU502: Celtic Power, dedicated to the time period between DAR3 and Steam Power. This might seem like a long stretch, but consider that some may require Astronomy or Navigation to get all those Contacts.

What are your plans for the Industrial era? Are you playing mostly a Builder game, a Warmonger one, or a 50/50 hybrid?

[Makahlua]

Well I started out as a warmonger, then slowly slid into hybrid and am now drifting into pure builder mode I'll discuss future plans at the end for now let's see where I left off..........*reviews DAR 3 quickly* Yep did pretty much as planned though I still have one last isle to go and will have to ship over a -ton- of workers for wetland/jungle clearing

Emperor - stock C3C

In 940 AD the French build the Sistine Chapel. Damn it. RoP signed with France so I can sail their waters safely. Heidelburg is captured, and I ring up gGrmany to discuss terms of surrender. we sign a simple peace as they are broke and behind ^^ Same with Sumeria + all 7 of their gold. If only my ships could trade over the oceans I could secure some techs The next turn brgins us to the all important switch to Republic In 970 we finish reforming into a Republic with the amazing result of being a turn ahead on Chemistry, anarchy notwithstanding I decide to build the FP up in Berlin instead of down in Salamanca since those cities are building decently without a corruption fighter and
the north -really- needs it.

990 AD and the Inca complete Copernicus' Observatory - and too late to grab the NE isle, the Aztecs are already there.... A couple of turns later Germany declares war on the Iroquois?? They are gonna be toast. 1020 AD brings us ChHemistry; I neglect to hunt for trades until the next turn but am able to trade it to Aztec for Education; there goes the ToA but thankfully the luxuires we've gained can keep the peace for a while. A few turns later, I note the French have started Magellan's so I call Joanie up to trade maps - so nice to be able to see where I'm going! We also trade 4 luxuries to her for Banking; I followup by the same luxes + 350g to Inca for Astronomy and turn that tech around to the Aztecs for Printing Press and upgrade the fleet to Caravels. And right after that the Aztecs start a war with France? If they were sharing a continent I'd worry

In 1120 AD Metallurgy is discovered - we trade it + 43 g to inca for Navigation + Democracy; and also to France for Chivalry + 182g. 1200 AD, and we finally discover Military Tradition.......only to find so had the AI, so much for trading up with -that- We trade Metallurgy to Aztecs for Music Theory +8g and cancel RoP with Iroq anticipating the attack on the northern isle. Next turn war is declared and the fleet lands - right after the Iroquis take the last German city and save me the trouble 1260 we discover physics - we trade it to Aztecs for Free Artistry and 3 luxuries to France for Economics. Next year the Inca Compleete Magellan's Voyage, and we trade 4 luxuries to the Inca for their World Map, 590 gold and a luxury from them. Next turn France completes Smith's and we take control of the last Sumerian city.

In 1300 the backwards Byzantines declare war on the Inca?? Crazy..... The Inca also finish JS Bach's Catherdral; two turns later the French finish Nweton's University and ally themseleves with the Inca against Byzantium. and then the turn after that, they build Shakespeare's Theatre... I feel so left out We sign a (temporary) peace with the Iroquois while we get some settlers and better garrsions over to the north isle. And in 1320 with the discovery of magnetism, the Celts enter the Industrial age

A quick check showed the AI with no Steam Power, only Nationalism so I decide to direct our scientists toward Medicine and Sanitation, thinking I can trade my way up what the AI decides to research. In 1370 we discover Medicine and trade it to Inca for 1160g + 10gpt + map; to France for 2 luxuries + 12 gpt + 50g; and also trade 3 luxuries to France for 1 of theirs to acquire our final luxury Forget what they say; money does buy happiness

In 1395 we complete the Forbidden Palace in Berlin and I watch my income shoot up. According to my military advisor i'm weak compared to france and inca. If the AI could do sea invasions worth a damn I'd worry Just waiting for the peace treaty to run out before I sack Hiawatha for the last time, heee. 1405 brings us Sanitation - the Inca have Steam Power but won't trade. Rrrr. Fine I'll research it myself then They do however buy the secret of how to flush for 86gpt + 160g + WM; Aztecs also buy in for 46gpt + 40g, but poor Joan's broke. No swirly for j00! 1435 brings us Steam Power - and our people want to build the IW?? *scans the map* It looks like the tiny tundra/coast city of Curovernum takes that honor; but hey it's better than nothing. But oh hell. Joan's setup for the same, and in Paris no less At least we have plenty coal

So, future plans? *checks f8 aka the Fate key* We're doing decent in the Culture department; France is ahead some but only at 4.5k in their best city and 30k overall; I'm at 2.1k and 20k so I can't see a suprise loos since they spread their wonders out luckily I'm the only once close for Domination @ 39% land/44% pop; closest rivals there are France with 17% land and Inca with 19% pop; I'm ahead of France in score too, but I think I can pull out a Diplomatic or Spaceship win before retirement; not saying it won't be close, but it can be done. If I could get a tech lead an whip out Tanks or Modern Armour advantage I might go for Domination/Conquest, but I think my best bet right now is to take that last isle, switch to Demo and see if I can pull ahead tech wise ToE beeline here I come!

[ZargonX]

More quick notes. This has been a rollicking good time so far

930 - Bad Tibra abandoned to give Ur some room
940 - Military Tradition discovered. Research set to 0% in prep for "The Great German
Erasure of 940"
960 - Music Theory to France for 77gpt and 150g
960 - Music Theory to Azt for 60g
990 - War declared on Germany after they refuse my demands of a measley 9g
1040 - Kuara lost to Germans
1060 - German saltpeter cut via Great Lake naval invasion
1090 - Heidberg captured; GL #4!!!
1140 - Iron to Sumeria for WM, 9gpt, 50g
1170 - Get a little overzealous and lose my Cav army
1170 - Frankfurt capture
1200 - Chem to Azt for 20gpt, 20g
1240 - Physics to France for wine, furs, banking, WM, 9g
-Dyes gifted to Byz
-Physics to Inca for Nav, 9g
-Spices and Incense to Sumeria for 5gpt, 50g, WM
1285 - Marad recaptured
1300 - Berlin captured
1305 - Theory of Gravity discovered
-Spices, Incense, ToG to France for Mag
1320 - Anarchy
-Leipzeig captured
1325 - Cologne captured
1330 - Stuggart captured
1335 - Change to Feud. Not quite what I was hoping for. Re-enter Anarchy, Konigsberg captured
1340 - Ivory, WM, 560g to France for Gems
1355 - Nuremburg captured
1360 - Salzburg captured
1365 - Munich captured
1370 - Stutgart deposes us
-Aztecs take out Sumerians (?)
1375 - Stutgart reclaimed
1380 - Steam Power discovered
-Heidleburg captured

Highlights: Warmongering can be fun I think the RNG is trying to make up for the last AU by giving me all these GLs. My production base is huge, and my military machine only has one place to go: forward!

[Risa]

After beating Sumeria to OCC, Brennus gathers his troop to south border, preparing for next war. Brennus has no idea what kind of weapon Hiawatha has, so he waits patiently, massing his forces.

Hiawatha invites JS Bach to the cathedral of Niagara Falls in 680AD. Brennus smiles when he hear it from culture minister, since Niagara Falls is the first target of the upcoming war.

When RoP with Iroquois is finally expired in 750AD, the third expansion war breaks out. Iroquois has musketmen now, which makes conquering a lot harder. However, despite our military are inferior in quality, ours are unchallengable supereme in quantity. Niagara Falls falls immediately, just as expect. In the following counter counter-attacks, General Caractacus has proven himself a worthy leader. He then leads a gallic swordsman - antienct cavalry army. Iroquois has performed some nice counter attack, taking away 2 of our oversea towns. "They'll hand them back, some day." Brennus is sure about that.


The battlefield ouside Salamanca in 810AD is just horrible. Many of Celtic gallic swordsmen fall there, including Orgetorix's ancient cavalry army. But it does worth that much of casualties. In addition to gaining Leonardo's workshop and Temple of Artemis, we also deny iroquois' access to horse. But Brennus' military minister makes a big mistake. He orders a group of 10 gallic swordsmen to attack another city without the help of armies. Only 3 have the chance of retreating back. After that Brennus takes a more cautious path. While slower, it's much safer. Thereafter Iroquois can't do anything to stop losing land.

To Brennus' surprise, Sumer deposed Celtic governer and rejoin Sumeria nation. War is the obvious choice. Retaking Sumer is relatively easy, and Brennus spares Ur this time. "You can live a bit longer, for our interests."

The first world map of Celtic people is gifted by Aztecs in 760AD. A bit earlier, French begins their plan of Magellan's Voyage. Brennus is worried about one French or Aztec ship showing on Iroquois coast, gifting them new technologies. "We won't have a chance if Iroquois had cavalries." Fortunately they didn't show up until around 1000AD. At this time it doesn't matter. Celts unite their countinent in 1060AD. The Forbidden Palace is built in Berlin in the same year.

French land 2 knights, 1 med infantry and 1 musketeer outside Mauch Chunk. What do they want? Brennus somehow remembers that German "hunting" group. Fearing for worst, Brennus abondons defense of Mauch Chunk to strengthen Salamanca's fortification. Protecting Leonardo's Workshop is his first concern.

French declare war on us in 1100AD, capture Mauch Chunk. Brennus feels he'd better keeps Aztecs outside this war, so he buys silks for Aztecs, in price of 2 Celts luxuries and several hundred golds. Yet in 1180, they join into the alliance against us! What the hell Montezuma is thinking?

Mauch Chunk is retaken in 1120AD, then suffers heavy naval bombardment. Thanks god no more French landing there, so that it's safe. French do land some knights on southwest island, that slows Iroquois' extinction to some extent.

Peace is signed with French in 1200AD, and it's time to harvest. Sumeria offers resistance of a fair large stack of enkidu warriors, and we nearly lose Caractacus's army. Brennus has a second thought: Since French are in their golden age (which was triggered in retaking Mauch Chunk), maybe we shall give some time to Aztecs, wating them to catch up. Besides, we don't want still in war when the revolution to Democracy ends.

So he waits a few years. Iroquois is destroyed in 1255AD, Aztecs agree to peace in 1260AD. In the same year, Sumeria is gone. Celtic scientists and technicians flood into Ur, busy reading those numerous tomes. They find records of Feudalism, Chivalry, Invention, Education, Gunpowder, Banking, Astronomy, Chemistry, Navigation, Economics, Democracy, Physics, Metallurgy, Free Artisty, Theory of Gravity, Magnetism, Military Tradition, and Steam Power! Strange there isn't any record about Music Theory, while all nations except Byzantine know it. Brennus trades it from Incan with Astonomy, then leaves his palace, devote himself into revolution!

=========
Paris is the only site of Ironworks in the world. I can expect a hard ToE race ahead. Evil ducki

[nbarclay]

In 570 AD, I traded Economics to France for Military Tradition so I could upgrade two knights to cavalry and build some additional cavalry. I’d taken one German city, but I almost lost my army trying to capture Berlin and that was definitely not pleasant. After the army’s near-fatal attack, my MedInfs decided to wait for reinforcements unless the cannons could get exceptionally lucky (which they didn’t). Berlin finally fell in 610 after a long and bloody struggle, thanks to the help of newly arrived cavalry.

A decade later, the Celts won a race with the Aztecs to be the first to research Physics. A trade to France yielded Democracy and some gold, and a trade to the Aztecs yielded some additional gold (although the Aztecs had put enough research into it that they weren’t willing to pay much).

The Celts, Aztecs, and French all entered the industrial era in 680 AD through a series of trade deals. In a strange reversal, I traded Theory of Gravity, two luxuries, a map, and a handful of loose change to the Aztecs for Theory of Gravity. (Normally, I’m the one getting luxuries in tech trade deals, not the one giving them.) I then traded Theory of Gravity and Magnetism to the French for a luxury, Free Artistry and a little bit of gold and gold per turn. (Not that I planned to do anything with Free Artistry considering the head start the AIs had, but I got a little extra gold trading for it and I figured I would have an easier time trading for Nationalism if the Aztecs and French get it at about the same time.) Just after that, another one of my culture crowding maneuvers paid off in a culture flip when Isin got tired of being the only former Sumerian city in Iroquois rather than Celtic possession.

In 700 AD, Democratic revolutionaries started a revolt. I wasn’t sure whether war weariness from a war fought entirely in Monarchy up to that point could be a problem changing governments, but I figured I could make peace with whatever might be left of Germany when the revolution was over. If I didn’t finish the Germans off, the Iroquois would be happy to do it for me. As it turned out, the peaceniks were indeed complaining for me to give peace a chance when I emerged from Anarchy. So I promptly captured the last German city that same turn.

The Celts discovered Steam Power in 770 AD and found that the coal situation was highly favorable. The Iroquois had two coal supplies, one in their core and one up north, but they still had four mandatory medieval techs left to obtain before they could even start trying to get Steam Power. If all went well, they would not live long enough to have a chance to trade their coal to anyone. The French had a native coal supply, and the Incas had one on an island to my west if they could get a road and harbor in place, but it looked like the Aztecs and Byzantines would probably have to play without coal this game. At this point, there was one known island that I didn't know much about, so I couldn't be positive about its resource situation, but the AIs hadn't started settling it yet as best I could tell.

The save I have is actually from the turn after I got Steam Power. In 780 AD, I was able to trade Steam Power to the French for Nationalism and sell it to the Aztecs for just over a hundred gold per turn. Normally, I’m not in quite such a big hurry to get Nationalism, but I was thinking I’d probably want to switch to Communism as soon as my rail network and the changes from irrigation to mining associated with it were finished in my core area (if I could trade for it that soon). Nationalism can be a very hard tech to trade for if an AI is already researching the tech you want to trade for it, especially on Demigod. The deal with the Aztecs gave me positive income and thus let me use my gold surplus to rush the remaining work on some courthouses and marketplaces.

In regard to the medieval wonder races, I succeeded in snagging Copernicus’s Observatory in the year 550, Smith’s Trading Company in 610, and Magellan’s Voyage in 690. The Iroquois got Sun Tsu’s in 490 BC and Sistine in 10 BC. The Incas got Leo’s in 350 AD, and the Aztecs got the Knights Templar in 360 AD and Shakespeare’s Theater in 10 AD. The French completed Bach’s Cathedral in 610 AD and Newton’s University in 740.

[Aqualung71]

I'm currently struggling through DAR4, but wanted to mention something that really ticked me off, so badly in fact that I seriously considered throwing in the towel at that point (well, that and my generally lousy play ).

I had been playing tech-catch-up for most of the game due to some poor early decisions, and I was able to do so reasonably because of the extra resources I had focused on grabbing in my REX phase, trading
Iron and luxuries every 20 turns for techs.

By the late middle ages, Germany was down to their capital Berlin (isolated in the north surrounded by towns captured by Sumeria) and a tiny village in the south next to one of my cities. I was trading Iron with Germany, and that deal had 2 turns to run before I was due to renew it.

However, the end of Germany was near so I called up Bismarck to try to squeeze one more gpt-for-tech deal in before he met his maker, only to have him accuse me of breaking our deal. Not only that, the news had spread to every other civ on the planet and I had become a trade pariah.

What had happened was that Sumeria had captured Berlin, leaving Germany with only one remaining town, which became their capital. It seems to me the game engine cut my trade with Germany as soon as their capital was taken, without considering that I was still connected to the new capital. And of course, it was my fault the trade had been cut, right?

Under the circumstances, with gpt trades being so important to me at the time, this little quirk severely limited my tool-kit at a time when I most needed it.

Could somebody please tell me if I did something wrong (in which case I'm quite happy to "wear it") or if this is a game bug? If the latter, it's almost a game-breaker for me as I've taken some considerable care with my reputation to date.

[jshelr]

Pretty standard game as we got to steam power. Germany is now relegated to the tundra. Sumeria is gone from our home land mass. And the rump state of Hi will shortly be visited by arty and infantry to get Sistine. Our military railroad structure now allows the homelands to be defended with ease.

By the way, I really like the limited power of cavs in the mod which forces or encourages use of cannons. Makes for a more interesting game than just running roughshod over civs with 6-attack cavs.

The French and Germans researched Democracy, went through a change of government, and only then attacked Brennus. Dumb.

A large cannon stack was able to get Bismarck's 6-point civil-war-era defenders down to yellow and red health levels and we finished the job without many cav losses. Leo's will let Brennus upgrade to arty on the cheap and soon.

Brennus made some alliances and stayed a republic while finishing universal sufferage and progressing toward ToE.

A prebuild for Hoovers will likely allow us to finish it shortly after ToE finishes. Longevity has another prebuild start and also has the edge of factory plus power plant plus railroaded tiles.

The AI is wallowing in the Nationalism-Commie-Fascism swamp and we are far ahead toward ToE. They were very, very late to industrialization.

Actually, they moved to medicine and sanitation next and started Longevity. Our prebuild will probably get us Longevity anyway, and I look forward to seeing how fast an agricultural civ with both Pyramids and Longevity grows.

I don't see any problems, although we are pretty light on coastal cities with the power to build big ships. So, being inherently lazy anyway, Brennus will head toward SS as the civilized way to end this, unless resource scarcity forces us back to war.

[jshelr]

Thriller

As described, I can't think what you could have done other than save Bismark. It's almost a bug, I think.

[nbarclay]

It sounds like a bug to me. I don't recall whether I've heard of that exact variation of the problem before, but I've certainly heard enough complaints about how wars between AIs can break trade routesand ruin players' trading reputations. Even if there are things players can do to protect themselves from the bug (and I'm not sure what that might be other than not trading with a civ that you think might have its trade cut off by war), that doesn't keep it from being a bug as far as I'm concerned.

[Aqualung71]

jshelr, Nathan, thanks for the moral suppoort. Anyway, no big deal I suppose - I guess I'll just have to destroy them all....muahahahahahahaaaa

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by Makahlua
Joan's setup for the same, and in Paris no less

Speaking of the Iron Works, I established an embassy in Paris quite late, and when the Paris city screen popped up, it showed a city with all cultural improvements built, factory, coal plant and iron works. Population was 20 (none of the AI's usual huge food excess and consequent entertainers), and.......get this....

159 blue shields!!!!!

To say I was impressed is an understatement!

[jshelr]

Astute Diplomatic Maneuvering

[jshelr]

Thriller -- Yea, I was carping that they beat me to longevity by a SGL, but maybe it was Iron Works instead.

We're still way ahead on useful tech and really are not worried much about everyone battering on our shores. They only land a couple of cavs at a time which makes for great MGL opportunities.

To quote my president, love him or, preferrably, leave him, "Bring 'em on!"

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by jshelr
.

To quote my president, love him or, preferrably, leave him, "Bring 'em on!"

He's the president of toronto too?

[jshelr]

I have apparently succeeded in being considered an American in Canada and a Canadian in America

[Aqualung71]

AU502 – DAR4 Steam Power, part 1

Demigod level, AU Mod

It’s make or break time now. We can identify and acknowledge several strategic mistakes thus far, and while we have scrambled to catch up by making the most of trading our excess strategic and luxury resources, we are still substantially behind in techs and fielding an offensive military that is technologically slightly inferior to its defending foe (after defensive bonuses). That said, we need to be single-minded and disciplined in our pursuit of the Iroquois territories, and then quickly turn our fierce gaze towards Sumeria and her Wonders. Oh, and let’s have some fun in there somewhere too, but Brennus’ scribe should take care of that!

To the play:

510AD: Several civs start work on JS Bach, meaning our MT strategy has failed already. “The sound of clashing swords and my enemy’s agonizing death-screams is all the music my ears need to hear”, snaps Brennus as he watches the blood-sacrifice of the Wig-Wam prisoners from the hard-fought battle of Allegheny, and the distribution of their womenfolk to his lusty warriors. Whispering to his adjutant he adds “Just make sure Queen Boadicea doesn’t find out about this or I’ll be less of a man tomorrow”…..and he meant it literally! Ouch!

520AD: ”It’s all or nothing men”, Brennus tells his lieutenants. Leaving a small contingent in the exposed southern Dye town of Foxtrot, 16 MI with a few supporting Trebuchets move south into Iroquois lands, within striking distance of Niagara Falls.

530AD: Hiawatha’s MI launch a pre-emptive strike, killing 2 Celtic MI and wounding 3 others. Our lack of nearby Pikemen is another military planning blunder that is costing us in lives. Brennus launches a devastating attack, taking Niagara Falls with minimal losses and renaming it Bat Out of Hell. Brennus’ cunning linguists predict that “The Battle of Bat Out of Hell” is unlikely to appear in any mainstream history texts. Despite its serious and instructive nature, students will fall out of their chairs laughing. “Oh well”, says Brennus reflecting on his first glorious battle victory, “Heaven Can Wait. I may be All Revved Up with No Place to Go, but Two Out of Three Ain’t Bad”.

“Heck, who’s scripting this rubbish?” complains Brennus. ”Get me a new scribe!”

540AD: Brennus is very glad to have finally met the enchanting Theodora some years back. She promises to show him some of her more personal Inventions, in return for “Education-ing” her in his secret ways….woo-hoo! Oh s**t, here comes Queenie again!

Hiawatha agrees to see our envoy, but it is merely a tactical feint by crafty Brennus to see what techs he might give up in exchange for peace (incredibly, none!). Oh, our herald was later horribly tortured and then scalped by the Iroquois, but his brave martyrdom will be recognized by a footnote in Brennus’ biography, currently being compiled by Heroditus’ descendants. "Oh, and give the poor man’s family 3 loaves of bread, will you please?", Brennus generously commands.

Our advisors tell us that our military is strong compared to Hiawatha’s. This gives Brennus the confidence he needs to continue the war. Poor man suffers from a lack of self-esteem, so let’s go kick some more Wig-Wam a**e.

550AD: Cheeky Gilgamesh demands 23g and our territory map. Oh well, he can have the money….for now.

620AD: War continues, but painfully slowly, having consciously sacrificed the speedy GS for the more powerful MI, which are still only barely adequate against Hiawatha's new Musketmen. Brennus is training more men for his regiments. MT finally researched, and traded to Theodora for Chivalry – we are now close to the age of Knights and just need to secure a trade route for our island Horses. Then we traded MT, Spices and 11gpt to Germany for Gunpower. But wait, we have no Saltpeter. Ah, Hiawatha is hoarding some. Even more reason to annihilate his puny civilization!

Tonawanda captured and renamed Rubber Soul. Meanwhile, back in Bat Out of Hell, sporadic Iroquois raids lead to the emergence of the first Celtic war hero, who advises Brennus on the merits of Armies. The victorious Elite is honoured, dubbed a Knight of the Order of African Swallows, and somewhat dubiously renamed “Brave Sir Robin”.

640AD: Traded Iron and 34gpt to Sumeria for Banking and Chemistry. Traded Banking and 16gpt to Germany for Astronomy. Brennus’ new Army inflicts its first bloody defeat on a wounded Iroquois Knight, and Brennus celebrates by commencing the erection of the Heroic Epic monument in his capital.

670AD: Cattaraugus taken with our MI Army, but only just, and promptly renamed Cosmo’s Factory. Meanwhile, Brennus is in trouble at home again – Boadicea has Heard it Through the Grapevine about his rather close friendship with Theodora and now he’s in for it! “Oh dear, I hope she doesn’t raze London again” he bleats.

Brennus sends out the order for reinforcements from the homeland. Military units are thin on the ground in the occupied territories and some recuperation is needed.

The capture of Cattaraugus opened up the sea trade lanes and the first shipment of Horses has been received. Somehow they avoided the knacker’s yard and are now being used to train Celtic Knights. Brave Sir Robin will not be an instructor, since his knowledge of Horseback Riding extends only as far as making daft clopping noises with empty coconut shells.

700AD: Golden Age ends, amid much weeping and very loud blowing-of-noses. “Stop it!......silly person”, orders Brennus, as he retreats to the safety of his suspiciously clean cheese shop.

Brennus suddenly realizes the folly of his free-trading spirit, as his Monarchy is plunged into deficit spending, with no scientific research! Suddenly those new-fangled Bank-thingies are looking very interesting, and Brennus starts ordering his many workers back into Celtic cities to generate more commerce for the growing empire.

710AD: Brennus orders a halt to roadworks on the second western-isle Horse resource, fearing extortion from the powerful Gilgamesh.

Screenie: The world as we know it at 710AD. Military forces holed up in Cosmo's Factory awaiting reinforcements, further dragging out the Iroquois war:

[Aqualung71]

AU502 – DAR4 Steam Power, part 2

Demigod level, AU Mod

730AD: Alert! Aztec forces land adjacent to our Horse resource near Ziggy Stardust – 2 Elite Knights. Our defending Pikeman is fortified in a Hill-Fortress, so they will have to get through his 6.75 defense rating to prevail if they are foolish enough to try. On the other hand, they did land in German territory, so we shall wait to see a clearer sign of their intentions.

740AD: The Aztecs attack the German town of Stuttgart and the 2 Elite Knights die at the hands of the defending Spearmen. These Germans are tough!

Horror! The captured Iroquois town of Rubber Soul flips, costing us 2 units, including a healing Elite. We have no nearby strength, so recapture will have to wait while our MI Army is engaged in the siege of St. Regis to the South. Luckily, the Trebuchets and a covering Pike were moved out of the town beforehand (contributing to the flip). Worse still, we lost Spices in the process, and our Iron/Incense town south was cut-off, as was our Horse sea-trade route. Luckily, we didn’t break any trade agreements. Luxury slider painfully moved from zero to 20%. Wow, that was the most expensive flip I’ve ever experienced!

Celtic Trebuchets make little impact on the defending Musketmen at St. Regis, so the Army camps for 10 years awaiting reinforcements!

750AD: MI Army withdrawn from St. Regis surrounds, to deal with the rebel town.

760AD: Rubber Soul recaptured, restoring the 2 luxury resources and 2 strategic resources.

790AD: Continued skirmishes with the Iroquois while the siege of St Regis recommences.

Physics purchased from Germany in return for Iron, 9gpt and 50g. While perhaps too late to be of any effect, this may nevertheless help redress the balance in their war with Sumeria. Banking and Chemistry given to the lovely Theodora in return for Navigation. Perhaps a little generous, but Brennus remains smitten! We are at least 5 techs behind the Aztecs and the French, possibly as many as 8.

800AD: Aztecs land on our SW Horse isle. Their intention is now clear. War will surely follow. Meanwhile, St. Regis finally falls and is renamed Captain Fantastic (but the Dirt Brown Cowboy doesn’t rate a mention).

810AD: Aztecs declare war as predicted. The strongest nation on earth has sent a single MI halfway around the world, who then proceeds to kill a Pikeman. Big deal!

Traded Incense to the French for 100g + 18gpt. Traded Physics to the beautiful Theodora for Printing Press and a look at the world for the first time. Brennus is amazed at how big it is! Theodora says she’s seen bigger

820AD: More trouble – the French declare war after being a polite luxury trader for many years. Brennus considers changing his deodorant (although Theodora hasn’t complained about his current one, “Scent a la Squaw”).

840AD: Captain Fantastic flips, taking with it 3 garrisoned units and our entire artillery compliment of 6 Trebuchets! Our nearby MI immediately recaptures the town, but the damage is done. The war will continue without bombardment.

850AD: The world is turning into a nasty place. We are at war with Iroquois, Aztecs and France, while Sumeria and that ugly two-faced b***h Theodora have entered embargoes against us. Our only trading partner is crusty old Bismarck, and he has nothing left to offer us for future trades. Our profitable Iron trade with Sumeria has ended and they’ve sourced it elsewhere.

The nasty world revealed by our trade advisor:

[Aqualung71]

AU502 – DAR4 Steam Power, part 3

Demigod level, AU Mod


The Aztecs seem to have declared war in order to acquire our Horse resources, since that's where they concentrated their "force". At least, that's what I'd like to believe!

[Aqualung71]

AU502 – DAR4 Steam Power, part 4

Demigod level, AU Mod

860AD: Aztec Pikeman lands on a hill and nearly accounts for our counterattacking MI Army! Aztec and French Frigates play havoc with our island possessions, destroying a Barracks and redlining our defenders. So far we have been saved by the choke-point terrain surrounding both towns, leaving them nowhere to land. Brennus thanks his god there are no in this world.

890AD: Aztecs finally agree to peace. Brennus opts for insurance and pays 13gpt rather than the 220g they demanded.

900AD: Our SoD comprising 8 Knights and 4 MI approaches the eastern Iroquois Saltpeter town of Centralia.

910AD: France agrees to peace for 5gpt. We have withstood the combined naval and military might of the 2 strongest nations on earth. Nevertheless, we have fallen a long way behind in tech and our dreams of invading Sumeria are quickly receding.

Centralia taken, and renamed Highway 61 Revisited. We now have Saltpeter! Spices traded to Germany for 13g + 4gpt.

920AD: Aztecs demand 55g and our map, and of course the wussy Brennus agrees, though I tried to stop him, honest!

940AD: Iroquois town of Kahnawake taken, and renamed Workers Playtime. City of Grand River taken and renamed 461 Ocean Boulevard.

980: Now I’m really annoyed! Germany is about to be annihilated. Aztec Cavalry sit outside their lightly defended capital. I try to do one more gpt trade for tech before my old friend dies, and Bismarck announces that he won’t trade because I’ve broken deals in the past. Except that I haven’t! Must be something to do with interruption of his trade lines because of war, but my city is right next to his capital. Brennus’ mood continues to darken.

Oil Springs taken and renamed Exile on Main Street.

990AD: Mauch Chunk taken and renamed Outlandos D’Amour.

1000AD: The start of the new millennium sees the departure of the Germans from the earth. Brennus goes for a coffee break while 12 Aztec Frigates bomb the crap outta Bismarck’s last red-lined Pikeman , then finish him off with Cavalry, annoyingly establishing a town on our continent. (Brennus later remembers the “shift” key and time starts to move more quickly again).

Joan demands 62 gold and wimpy Brennus agrees. How many times has he bowed down to extortion now?

1010AD: Finally the Iroquois are removed from our continent as their capital Salamanca falls to our advancing legions. We agree to peace, though Hiawatha will only give us Metallurgy and Magnetism after 500 years of being beaten up.

Brennus turns his eyes northward and sees that Gilgamesh is producing Riflemen. The high priest is called for advice and tells Brennus that an AI civ having Riflemen in 1010AD is a bad omen. Even Brennus could work that out himself – high priest summarily impaled (courtest of Brennus’ continental cousin Vlad) and mounted on London Bridge as a warning to others not to…..errr…..open their mouths when Brennus has spent 500 years trying to win a war?

So yes, the inglorious details - 500 years of war. One MGL in 620AD and not one since, despite many victorious battles with Heroic Epic aided Elites! What is this – RNG revenge? Grumble, grumble.

Brennus magnanimously decides that correcting Gilgamesh’s faults (ie, that he is smarter, richer and more advanced than us) is no longer a high priority and will have to wait for a few hundred years. Besides, he’s heard rumours of a new government called Democracy and he is very keen to learn its secrets – particularly those that curb the corruption of his tiresome Lords and provide extra commerce to the royal treasury. Brennus takes one final, wistful gaze through his castle window towards Ur and Sumer, and then retires to his chambers and the pleasures of Theodora’s smile. Apparently trade embargoes do not extend to the bedroom.

1030AD: Clearly the evening did not go well. Theodora impetuously declares war, dropping off some sacrificial Horsemen and MI for slaughter. Their heads join that of the former high priest. Avalon founded.

1080AD: Aztecs declare on the French. Now that IS interesting! Shift key used extensively as French/Aztec Frigate battles rage within our waters.

1090AD: Military Tradition researched and MA started in Disraeli Gears. Democracy begun – Hiawatha wouldn’t swap it (or Economics) for MT, so this is the first time I can recall for a long time researching it myself.

Wow, Montezuma-whatchamacallit is gracious! But still won’t do a gpt deal!

1100AD: All Things Must Pass founded, to fill up some gaps caused by loose AI spacing.

Meanwhile, Theodora’s Horsemen continue to attack the Aztec fortified Infantry. Bless her, poor confused soul. Everyone’s building Universal Suffrage. Brennus castigates himself (no, not castrates) yet again for falling so far behind in research.

1150AD: Democracy researched. Aztecs building ToE. Egads!!! Meanwhile, the Byzantine war goes nowhere. Theodora wastes some units then agrees to peace. She throws in Theory of Gravity for 56gpt. Oh well, at least it pushed us into the Industrial age.

Brennus is tired of being King. He suggests to his Nobles that they may wish to share power, as long as he retains the title and the Crown Jewels. After a short revolution, the Democratic Celtic Republic (clearly with distinct Communist leanings) emerges in 1170AD.

Ha ha, good one wig-wearer! Hiawatha wants MT in exchange for his world map! Feeling generous, we give him our newly acquired secrets of Gravity plus MT for Economics.

Brennus forgets how well he has MM’d his cities, leaving many with exactly 12 pop and zero food surplus…..but promptly remembers when about 5 cities starve during anarchy!

Steam Power in 9, says the advisor. “Finish building those Universities or there’ll be hell to pay” responds Brennus. “And while you’re here, why isn’t my Forbidden Palace or Military Academy finished yet?” Later that same evening, London Bridge received another adornment.

1250AD: At last, Steam Power is researched. And the Military Academy is completed concurrently in Disraeli Gears. Brennus instructs his scientists to suddenly learn how to be industrial, and with the FP to be completed in Bat Out of Hell next turn, the Celtic civilization has finally begun to make some strides forward. Let’s hope we can quickly recover the ground lost during the Ancient Age and the protracted Iroquois war and reach tech parity by the end of the Industrial Age.

After Play Comments: This DAR spanned a considerable period for us, from 510AD to 1250AD. This was largely because we got bogged down in a lengthy war with the Iroquois, determined to remove them from “our” continent instead of perhaps trimming them a little then concentrating on denting Sumerian power in the north. By stubbornly pursuing the Iroquois until we had taken all their land, we lost the opportunity to pursue Sumeria until we were able to secure better attacking units. The war also slowed us down scientifically, and we fell way behind in the tech race. The Aztecs emerged as a KAI, with France not too far behind them. Annoying attacks by Aztecs, France and Byzantium and a series of trade embargoes against us did not help matters either. We have been paying less attention to diplomacy than we probably should have, concentrating more on pumping out units for the war and researching as quickly as possible, thus with no cash for attitude improvements.

Objectives for next DAR – RR everything in sight, factories/plants everywhere, pop-add most remaining workers, build infantry armies and then go pay Gilgamesh a little visit!

The world at 1260AD, with all traces of purple removed from the Celtic continent and almost from the world:

[nbarclay]

Thriller, how did your culture compare with that of the Iroquois when all those flips occurred?

[Aqualung71]

My culture was about equal to the Iroquois at that point, but both cities were only about 7-8 tiles from the Iroquois capital, wihch obviously was a big factor since my capital was so far away.

Also, the first city that flipped was in disorder at the time with pop of 4 and only 2 units garrisoned - I had forgotten to turn the governor on when I captured it and so the next turn when a resister was quelled it jumped into disorder, so no real surprise when it flipped I guess. The second city wasn't in disorder, but I think I probably only had 1 unit inside and it was 4-5 pop (plus 6 Treb's, which don't count as garrison so really shouldn't have been left inside). I was a bit thin on the ground at that point, awaiting reinforcements, so not enough spare units to garrison the newly captured cities.

Culture graph attached. I had delayed the building of a lot of cultural iprovements in my cities as I was pumping out units to try to get rid of the Iroquois. Only when I got Industrialisation did I really finish off all the Universities. Can't do everything at once I guess!

How did you fare with culture?

[jshelr]

"Also, the first city that flipped was in disorder at the time with pop of 4 and only 2 units garrisoned - I had forgotten to turn the governor on when I captured it."

Here is what I do, but I'm totally paranoid about flipping:

1. capture city.
2. load with "junk" units -- old spears, or GWs, or I was using the ancient cavs for this
3. get resistance ended asap
4. put all citizens on tax collection -- you can make a tidy profit
5. ethnic cleanse them down to 1 pop
6. build your temple and move on

Worked in this game -- no flips. Sometimes it is way too draconian, but I usually have a pathetic culture.

[nbarclay]

I built (often using pop rushes) a lot of temples, so I was a lot more competitive in early culture than I usually am on demigod (even though I usually play from better starting positions when I play on that level). I got a late start on libraries from focusing on troops, but with a dozen trebuchets in my main stack to hold down losses, I was able to go back to building city improvements fairly early in my golden age. Sumeria's good terrain and cheap libraries gave them a cultural advantage, especially with me focusing on troops over libraries right up until the moment I attacked them. But I was able to achieve and maintian cultural superiority, albeit not by a huge margin, against the Germans and Iroquois.

[Aqualung71]

Yeh, a temple is usually my first build in any city after my first 4 or 5. I don't take advantage of pop-rushing as much as I probably should, being paranoid about happiness. Plus my invasions are usually later (something Iseriously need to work on, as this game has shown), so pop-rushing isn't usually an option for me with captured cities as I'm pretty much always in a government form by then that doesn't allow it.

jshelr, yes I hear you and that's a pretty good methodology. I was just being lazy!

[nbarclay]

About the only time I make much use of pop rushing is with temples when I'm playing religious civs. The timing of accumulating ten shields while a city grows to size 2 and then doing a pop rush for the remaining twenty sheilds is usually almost perfect for cities in outlying areas where corruption is a serious problem. Further, the happiness boost from a pop-rushed temple offsets the unhappiness from the pop rush on the very next turn, and the happiness from the temple is permanent while the unhappiness from the pop rush is only temporary. Also, corrupt outlying cities are the places where the luxury slider does the least good, which further adds to the attractiveness of rushing temples in such places. Put those factors together and there is a special synergy that does not exist with other types of pop rushes.

When I'm not playing a religious civ, I don't tend to build much in the way of early temples. I'm too busy with granaries, settlers, workers, and a few troops here and there for military police (preferably with barracks to build veterans if cities can afford the time). Courthouses are usually a higher priority than temples in outlying areas; they have a bigger impact on wealth and production than being able to work an extra tile does, and they can even help happiness in connection with the luxury slider in some cases. (I'm thinking courthouses used to have no effect on benefits from the luxury slider, but in C3C they seem to.) With courthouses only costing twenty shields more than temples for nonreligious civs, about the only time I'll prioritize temples over them in outlying areas is as part of a cultural campaign, and even then, building a courthouse first to get extra shields to build cultural improvements faster later on is an attractive option. As a result, when I play non-religious civs, I tend to have a serious cultural deficit in the early game, a deficit that starts to close only after I finish REXing and start building city improvements in my core.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by jshelr

Here is what I do, but I'm totally paranoid about flipping:

1. capture city.
2. load with "junk" units -- old spears, or GWs, or I was using the ancient cavs for this
3. get resistance ended asap
4. put all citizens on tax collection -- you can make a tidy profit
5. ethnic cleanse them down to 1 pop
6. build your temple and move on

I rarely have large numbers of obsolete troops lying around that I can use for anti-flip duty. My usual approah is to push my attack as quickly as I can, leaving only relatively small garrisons, and if a city flips, it flips.

I do frequently use the technique of starving cities down, but there are three main criteria for whether or not I regard it as worhwhile. First, how does my culture compare with my enemy's? Second, how much longer will the war last? And third, will my enemy still be alive when the war is over? If I'm just a few turns away from killing off a civ, starving down captured cities when I don't need to in order to avoid riots is a waste of laborers I can use myself in a few turns without fear of flipping. On the other hand, if a war against a culturally superior opponent is going to drag on for a long time, and especially if I don't plan to eliminate the civ entirely even when the war is over, starving cities down looks a lot more attractive.

I might also note that I tend to leave larger garrisons when I'm using a government that can benefit from military police than when I'm using one that can't. Risking the loss of units in culture flips is more worthwhile when the units serve an additional purpose besides just reducing the risk of flips.

Nathan

[jshelr]

nbarclay is right on all counts. i don't have lots of old units laying around either. but you can keep enough to move from city to city, generating quick ends to resistance. Ancient cavs are dead end and perfect for this job.

[Madine]

AU mod, Monarch.

The Iroquois have been pushed off the continent. The war with them was tougher than I thought it would be, mainly because they had cavalry.

I switched to democracy. I feel like I have the lead now, although I am behind a couple techs. I am confident I will be able to catch up though. The Sumerians do have a definite culture advantage.

[Chemical Ollie]

Industrial Era 1500-1750 AD was a long series of space clicking. I automated all workers and fortified all units to minimise micro management.

Had a minor war with the Aztecs, who landed some medieval units on one of my outpost islands and sneak attacked. The island was not well defended, with only one musketman per city, so they took two cities, but I shipped over three cavallery units that took it all back the next turn. The war was so short that I could stay in democracy.

Researched at 4-5 turns per tech. I skipped the crap tech like nationalism and sanitation, which I later was able to get in trades. Built all industrial wonders except longevity, and went into the modern age at least 5 techs ahead of the French.

[Rhothaerill]

Rhoth's AU502 DAR 4a

Demigod level - AU mod

I left off last DAR with preparing for an invasion of Sumeria now that I had driven the Iroquois off the continent.

410ad - The Sumerians complete Bach's Cathedral. Woo hoo. Now I get to capture it since they are my next target.

420ad - After several turns of the Sumerians sending gobs of workers into my territory heading for Tyendanaga and the saltpeter source, they finally declare war on me. My forces were now in position and I also assured myself of capturing a bunch of slave workers...10 in all.

On this turn alone I destroyed 15 Sumerian units with the loss of only one knight and one gallic swordsman. The funny thing was, their pikes were going down easily, but their medieval infantry units were giving my knights fits.

On the diplomatic front, I gave the Germans spices and incense to attach the Sumerians from the north and on the islands, and gave the Iroquous education to attack them on their island.

And I just loved what he had to say, "...our alliance is so strong." As he declares war on me.


to be continued...