Ultimate Challenge with Chess1 map

[carnide_]

Cavebear made a good map for this challenge.
Who is up to it?
This will be a no huts, full map display (Like chess)
The goal is to minimize the luck factor, and to set up a game 100% based on skill!
As all the other CIvs are humans, this can be a challenge even greater than OCC, or any other against the AI.
Looking foward for your posts!!

[SmartFart]

I am not sure i understood you completely.
What do you mean by revealed map? This means you can check any of my cities to see its production at any time? What about unit movements? Does that means you can see every unit on the field every turn?

Does revealed map means you can see every new city location?

Please be more specific.

[carnide_]

A revelead map game is a map where all map is know.
Also, this map has no huts. (Critical issue, this one, to avoid the luck factor)
You cannot see other CIVs units/cities, unless when you are near them, as in a normal map game.
- - -
This way the luck factor is very small. But you cannot put it down to zero unless:
a) The starting point for CIVs is leveled (This chess1 map does a good job at that)
b) You can see all other CIVs moves/units (At this moment, no one knows how to do it without enabling the possibility to change each city production orders, regardles of CIV, so in this game, this information is available like it was a standard game)
c) No HUTS!!
d) No Barbs!
- - -
Looking forward to play with you soon.

[SmartFart]

So,basically it's a normal game with no huts,barbs,approximatelly same ammount of land,similar starting positions and no AI?

I'll be glad to play if Deity and normal movement. We could start tomorrow if you like.

[SmartFart]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by carnide_ on 09-13-2000 09:39 PM</font>

You cannot see other CIVs units/cities, unless when you are near them, as in a normal map game.


You can see all other CIVs moves/units

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

This one is still little foggy to me

[Makeo]

I'd like to play, but timing would probably be a problem.

[carnide_]

SF: b) is only a wish, no one knows out to do it now.
- - -
Concerning timing problems: How about an email game?
We could start it by email, post here, and at weekends play online.

[carnide_]

The game has started. Smartfart, Spider and me are in.
The map is great.

[SmartFart]

To be perfectly honest,i would like if our map have more water,but oh well...

Game has started. Spider got Philosophy before i even had Literacy (spice is good special,eh?).

It's 950bc and mighty Egiptians just completed ultimate wonder,not in Gizah,though. Our science sucks,due to lack of trading specials,but there are rumours that Pyramids attracting scientists same way as sh*t do to flies.

Looking forward to continue.

[Spider]

I like this map, Cavebear did a good job! I, too, like a good naval battle, but I think Cavebear made it like this for a reason. It looks like the only way to make a good "chess" map is to either have very little water, or a whole lot. We need another map after this game with a whole mess of identical island continents, just big enough for four or five large cities. Get off your butt, Cavebear!

Well, I got a good start this game. All my tech choices went straight to monarchy and then philosophy with no deviation. That's unusual. It also meant I had no choices for units other than warriors and diplomats, and I almost lost every damn city when the barbs came one after another. I ended up netting 3 barb leaders to make up for having two cities knocked back to size 1. Unfortunately, about ten barb leaders escaped because you just can't chase them down with warriors.

Wish I could get over to Smartfart's area. With a wonder and all those cities under his belt, he must have a paper house right now.

One thing I've noticed about this map is it seems to be built for an even number of players. With three, one is bound to be the monkey in the middle, and that's me this game. I think this map would be a lot more fun with four players.

This game is certainly interesting. We're far enough apart to be able to achieve a good portion of our goals before interference arrives; and the coming clash ought to be a learning experience. I like the fact that city bribing is allowed in this game; it should spice things up.

I'm in a quandary as to how to deal with the tasty island in the middle of the map. Do I really want to go there?

Well, looking forward to continuing this one tomorrow.

[SmartFart]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Spider on 09-15-2000 12:23 AM</font>
All my tech choices went straight to monarchy and then philosophy with no deviation. That's unusual.


<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Whatever-Ceremonial-Alphabet-Code of L.-Monarchy-Writing-Mysticism-Literacy-Philosophy.

With no huts,no deviations. Nothing unusual

[cavebear]

I've emailed Carnide 2 more maps. One is like the 1st, but has water dividing the landmasses. That should get the navy involved a bit more. It is set for 4 players (the 1st 4 civs on the list).

The second is designed for 3 players, and naval development is more important.

I will be curious to see the consequences of the island in the center of the first 2 maps... *EG* Will it distract a player from more effective development of his own landmass, or will it become the essential place to control. I don't know, but it is there because the centerboard is so important in regular chess.

The first map is like it is because I wanted to replicate the essential uniformity of a chessboard. Taking terrain out of play to some extent emphasizes the movement and unit skills. Maneuvering units may be more important on that map. And yes, I mostly thinking in terms of land units for the first one.

I've opened the newer maps to some additional naval interest. The next one may be almost entirely a naval world...

could someone please mail me all the maps which were mentioned in this thread...?

I didn't read the whole thread, but there sholud be at least 3 maps... well? use the email-adress in my profile

[cavebear]

Andz - I've emailed them. Hope you enjoy playing them with someone...

Chess1 can take 6 players; Chess2, 4 players; and Chess3, 3 players. Remember to use the first 6, 4, or 3 civs (respectively) and from the left column only. And do NOT randomize anything during setup.

[Spider]

Ahh, thanks for explaining that, Cavebear. And a big thanks for making the maps!! I'm looking forward to playing the other two, as well. Is there some place I can download them - are they on Apolyton? (Before I go looking in a dark room for a black hat that isn't there.)

The maps are great, but we didn't get the start completely right. We played the first map, (made for six) with three people, and I think this would have worked alright if we'd all known which Civs to pick from the beginning. If the pattern were like this:

1 2
3 4
5 6

We ended up with the 2,4,5 civs, when 1,4,5 or 2,3,6 would have evened things out more. So, that's something others should watch out for if they play Chess1 with 3 people. And if you play with 4, make sure you get the 1,2,5,6 layout.

This would be a great scenario for 4 or 6 people, however. I think every serious civver should take a look at this standardized map which seems to guarantee even starts and minimizes the luck factor.

Another thing I'd do differently next time we play is turn off the barbarians. They can be very good luck once you're prepared, but they can be devastingly bad luck early on. Either way, it's a luck factor that could be eliminated.

Great fun! Thanks Cavebear, and thanks for posting the challenge Carnide.

[cavebear]

Spider - Perhaps I didn't explain the selection of civs very well.

In any of the maps, take the left column civs by number of players. For example, Chess1 can take 6 players, but does not require that number. If 2 players, take the first 2 civs; if 4 players, take the first 4 civs, etc.

Three players is awkward with the first map; I was thinking in even numbers then, for symmetry. If you try 3 players on that one, I suggest Rome/Greek/Egypt OR German/Babs/American.

Chess2 is sited for 4 players. Even so, 2 can play as long as they choose the first 2 civs (it will still be balanced) OR the 3rd and 4th civs. Just take the first 2 and name them whatever you choose, it's simpler. There is more room for naval activity than in Chess1.

Chess3 is designed for 3 players, though it will work with 2 (there will just be one island unoccupied). It is a more naval game and in fact requires naval advancement.

I'll email maps to anyone interested if they indicate a desire. Actually, I want people to learn the maps, so that the terrain is taken somewhat out of play. That's as close to a revealed map as I can manage so far witout giving players control over opponent cities.

[cavebear]

Spider - I can't email you the maps because your address isn't in your profile. But you can email me. Don't worry; I won't sell it. *s*

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Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance...

[Spider]

Ok, Cavebear, I'll shoot you an e-mail. Thanks!

[Spider]

LOL, no problem. I can play today, too. Now, if Carnide happens to show up this afternoon, we'll be set.

[SmartFart]

Sorry for missing yestreday session.
I've choosed snooker with friends,hoping i'll come back home in time but i didn't.
Plus i took few more beers than i can handle

I am available today if you like.

[Spider]

Thanks for sending the maps, Cavebear, it would be great if everyone played using these maps. It would certainly take care of the unfair advantage that the host has from the start, and eliminate some potential cheating, as well.

I was wondering - How was Carnide able to start the game with the whole map visible. I can't figure that out. Carnide? Cavebear? Perhaps someone else knows?

Also, I notice that I can't tell the difference between this obviously contrived game and any other game (from the standpoint of joining a game.) Does that mean that any game I get into on the net could be a contrived position by some cheater? If that's the case, why isn't everyone using these maps?

Now, as for the game we started: Is there interest in continuing this game? Carnide? SF? I'm available most nights between 7pm and midnight, CST. Post a date if you want to continue, or post that you'd rather not, if that's the case.

[cavebear]

Spider - I think Carnide started his as a scenario. With those, you can use the cheat menu to set up what you want (well, that's almost the purpose of it). "Reveal map" is one of the options.

However, that caused some problems, so I did not make mine scenarios, just maps.

As far as knowing whether you are playing on a pre-made map or not, I'm afraid the answer is that you *can't* tell. Not if someone wanted to hide that fact, anyway. The ones I made are obviously artificial (the computer is never going to make geometrically symetrical lakes, for example), but I could make one that no one would recognize as pre-made. And I could certainly make one that would give all civs but one really awkward positions (but not enough to make anyone initially suspicious). And I would know which civ to select, too (how many people choose yellow or green civs?).

Cheating is easy. Fortunately, few players do. And far fewer can make maps. And I almost never host (dial-up modem). I should create one though, as an example.

But, yes, it is possible...

[arii]

The good thing with maps generated from scenarios is that it removes the randomness of the tech that you can research next. IMO you can always research monarchy 4th.