How do you raise a child to be a Good Communist?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I should have realized from your prior posts that you have no conception of history whatsoever. Hell, and you come from the general area of Genghis Khan and Mao Ze-dong.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I should have realized from your prior posts that you have no conception of history whatsoever. Hell, and you come from the general area of Genghis Khan and Mao Ze-dong.

No, I am actully from Delta Lyrae.

[Giancarlo]

How do you raise a child to be a Good Communist?

Simple. Don't get an education.

[Nubclear]

Fez finally admits to his communist upbringings!

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Fez finally admits to his communist upbringings!

No, I am a capitalist. I am smart and I am getting an education.

[joncha]

Didn't you know? Fez is a socialist. Of the national variety.

[Nubclear]

If classification A requires you to have trait B, and you have trait B, are you not A?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by joncha
Didn't you know? Fez is a socialist. Of the national variety.

Nope.

[PeteH]

To claim "thats how things have always seemed" with regard to a desire to destoy those around someone, and then to try and back that up by saying "havent you read any history" is almost funny.

A newsflash: History did not start 5-10 thousand years ago. The history of humans for >99% if their existance, is nothing like you assume 'human nature' to be. Our current situation is an anomoly which is having, and will continue to have until it is destroyed (and even then many of the most dangerous by products will continue doing harm), horrible effects on the rest of life in the world, including the lives of most humans.

I agree, a study of history can be very useful, its a shame most people only read the last page

[Heavy and Happy]

You dispatch a bullet through his head.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Aggie's been getting selfish lately and painting ideologies with a wide brush, isn't he?

The first steps, the first steps.

Next he will have to develop a work ethic.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by PeteH
A newsflash: History did not start 5-10 thousand years ago.

Technically it did. History means written & oral records of our past. The period before records were kept is pre-history. The general gist of your comment, however, is correct.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


What kind of natural greed will make a person goes out and crush everybody else who opposes him?

Someone needs to pick up a first-grade history textbook

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by PeteH
To claim "thats how things have always seemed" with regard to a desire to destoy those around someone, and then to try and back that up by saying "havent you read any history" is almost funny.

A newsflash: History did not start 5-10 thousand years ago. The history of humans for >99% if their existance, is nothing like you assume 'human nature' to be. Our current situation is an anomoly which is having, and will continue to have until it is destroyed (and even then many of the most dangerous by products will continue doing harm), horrible effects on the rest of life in the world, including the lives of most humans.

I agree, a study of history can be very useful, its a shame most people only read the last page

Our current situation isn't an "anomaly", it's a natural progression of human affairs.

[Kidicious]

Originally posted by JohnT
The point is that children are greedy, needful things who don't like to be thwarted. But Communism is all about the denial of personal wants and the unacceptability of private property, programs your child will not care for. Loudly. Vocally. For years.

If you think that Sophie is naturally greedy you should stop and ask yourself why she understands the word 'mine.' It's true that children have a natural survival instinct and that the concept of getting what you want through cooperation takes longer to understand than just grabbing what you need, but what you failed to realize is that Sophie was really looking to you to show hear what acceptable behavior is. And yes, I understand that she is only 2, and when they are that age you just give them the menu or whatever. The point is that children are socialized. They aren't born perfect citizens. They have to be taught how to get their needs met in the society that they live in whether it's a communist society or a capitalist society. After all, she has to learn that it's not acceptable to take the salt from the restaurant in both types of societies right?

And my answer to your question about raising good communists is to create a children's show staring commie kittens.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The point isn't that humans are naturally inclined towards capitalism or communism (though if one were to make that argument, surely the fact that we've only been capitalist for the last few hundred years, while for about three million we were communist would show what we are "naturally"). What we argue is that humans are by nature, social creatures, and that we make our societies and our relations with each other. Thus, we are as naturally communist as we are capitalist.

Birdseed is very correct to point out that the two-year old child is not a model of ideal human relations, in any society.

bingo.

JohnT, you seem quite insistant on the fact that nothing you did has fostered these feelings in Sophie. While I do not personally know exactly how Sophie was raised, I would contend that at one point in time you did put the idea of exclusive ownership into her head, and at that time it might have seemed unfair to her. for example, she went to go play with your laptop, and you may have scolded her and told her that was daddy's, and she mustn't touch it. You may have even given her a avlid reason for it, but she would most likely not comprehend it as valid, and just think you were keeping things from her.

In this case, she would be mimicking behavior she noticed in you. Finding something, and claiming it yours, making seemingly unfair claims to it's ownership.

I seriously doubt that this thread is actually looking for quality advice and ideas about raising socialist children, so i won't waste my time.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Birdseed is very correct to point out that the two-year old child is not a model of ideal human relations, in any society.

The point that will continue to be made is that given certain level of stress man will revert back to his child. In this case a greedy wanting child. (No offense to Sophie intended).

Other levels of learnings (i.e. social indoctrination) supress this base nature to the point that man can see the mutual benefit of altruistic behavior. Do we see this all the time during stressful times, no but the tendency and base desires do exist. To deny their existance is to deny a prime motivator of man. To continue to deny their existance allows folks to demonize others as unnatural and immoral. (see below)

Does man wish to be a social creature, yes. For what reason? To feel good about himself and his own sense of self image in todays terms, in previous prehistory to help chances of survival.

Is competition a foreign concept to man? No. Lord knows we have any number of debaters here who feel the need to prove themselves and win a debate. Why? See above.

Thus, the out of self interest people go out of there way to crush someone else. Its called feeling better about themselves by being so-called better than someone else. Describes a whole host of repugnant human behaviors from religious crusades to racism.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The history of humans for >99% if their existance, is nothing like you assume 'human nature' to be.

A majority of human existance has been under some form of dictatorship. So I think the point about human nature stands.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kucinich




Our current situation isn't an "anomaly"

Then why is it the first and only time it has happened in the history of the universe (as we know it)?


EDIT: Oh, are you a creationist?

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Kidicious
And my answer to your question about raising good communists is to create a children's show staring commie kittens.

VICTORY FOR THE *meow* PROLETARIAT!

[Kidicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
The point that will continue to be made is that given certain level of stress man will revert back to his child. In this case a greedy wanting child. (No offense to Sophie intended).

You seem to be agreeing that man will function normally as long as he can get what he needs and wants from society, and that he will only exhibit anti-social behavior when society is not providing for his needs. I'm I right?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Tp an extent yes. But mans needs are such that they never are completely fulfilled. Hence my point re: his need to have high self esteem. In many cases, that is derived from his sense of competition and doing well at the expense of others.

All one needs do is look at the amount of I win, you lose posts on this board to see that.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Uber KruX


VICTORY FOR THE *meow* PROLETARIAT!

Just call me Chairman Meow.

[Nubclear]

Who the **** cares if its natural or not?
If it is: Yay.
If its not: Then let us, as human beings, use our higher brain functions to surpress our natural tendenciesand embrace something thats a little more advanced.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
In this case a greedy wanting child. (No offense to Sophie intended).

I should point out that this is the same child that saw a baby in distress and without any prompting went over to comfort it.

To deny their existance is to deny a prime motivator of man. To continue to deny their existance allows folks to demonize others as unnatural and immoral. (see below)

No one is denying the existence, but to point at one aspect of human nature and say this is the sole or prime motivator among the myriad of human reason and emotions is faulty thinking.

Does man wish to be a social creature, yes. For what reason?

It is not a matter or whether we wish it or not. We are not snakes or bears or other solitary creatures who occassionally bump into other humans. Our mode of existnece is based upon our interaction with other humans. We are a cooperative species innately. Without others of our kind, our mind becomes ill. Solitary confinement is one of the worst punishments tere is, and being alone is one of our greatest fears. On top of that, cooperation is necessary for survival.

The question isn't are we competitve or cooperative. We are clearly both. The problem of capitalism is that it exagerates one aspect of our nature, the competitive part, at the expense of our other nature, which is to join together and form groups. The problem with Stalinism is that it tried to crush the indivdual aspect of our natures and force everyone to be a group. The point, rather, is to create a society which allows for the maximize both our indivudal and cooperative aspects.

When you look at Marx's writings, it is clear he doesn't advocate a society where we are like bees or cogs in a machine. He wants to create a society where every person is able to develop all aspects of themselves to the utmost. But capitalism requires min-maxing (to use game terms). This is most efficient in a society that is geared towards winning. But it makes for being a very poor and anti-social human being otherwise.

[Agathon]

As an answer to the first question. If you raise your child to be a moral person and you succeed, he/she will automatically become a communist.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Agathon
As an answer to the first question. If you raise your child to be a moral person and you succeed, he/she will automatically become a communist.

No, that is capitalism.

Thank goodness communism collapsed in 1991.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Agathon
As an answer to the first question. If you raise your child to be a moral person and you succeed, he/she will automatically become a communist.

Odd, that's not what happened in your case.

Uber, where have I been quite insistent about anything? I only mentioned Sophie once, and have yet to follow up with a single on-topic remark that has any semblence to the issues raised in my own OP!

[Agathon]

I've grown tired of being polite. The political right are simply immoral. They pretend they aren't, and hide behind arrguments about economic means, but they are, wittingly or no, at odds with basic human decency.

Not that they care.

[JohnT]

Pot to kettle: "Hey, you're black!"