Thread Tools
Old March 22, 2004, 08:59   #121
Alexander's Horse
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
Alexander's Horse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:32
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a tunnel under the DMZ
Posts: 12,273
Quote:
Originally posted by Azazel


Oh, and btw, Pax, (using a hyperbole here), don't you think that killoing Hitler would be immoral?
Blah@you.

Bad move this.
__________________
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer.

Look, I just don't anymore, okay?
Alexander's Horse is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 09:43   #122
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
does this action make Israelis safer in either the short or long term? Personsally I doubt it highly. Hence I fail to see the use of this attack. It is not justice (that would be arresting and putting him on trial), it is vengence.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 09:43   #123
Brundlefly
Prince
 
Brundlefly's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Picksburgh
Posts: 837
Can we just give Israel and Palestine each a button to annihilate each other? Who ever presses their button first wins and the rest of the world gets some peace and quiet...
Brundlefly is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 10:45   #124
Guardian
Apolyton University
King
 
Guardian's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 1,005
Let's see...

Is this a big loss for the world? No.
Is the world a better place without this guy? Possibly.
Did killing him solve any problem or will it bring peace to the people of Israel? No.
Will it be used as a pretext for further violence? Yes. Definitely.

Then what good did it do?
__________________
"Politics is to say you are going to do one thing while you're actually planning to do someting else - and then you do neither."
-- Saddam Hussein
Guardian is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 10:48   #125
Datajack Franit
NationStates
King
 
Datajack Franit's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Italia
Posts: 2,036
Well, well it was about time
__________________
I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.

Asher on molly bloom
Datajack Franit is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 11:32   #126
The Mad Viking
King
 
The Mad Viking's Avatar
 
Local Time: 19:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: of the Great White North
Posts: 1,790
Quote:
Originally posted by Azazel


"blood will flow" and "it will only enrage them more" is bullshit. It's a presumption that they were some sort of hippies beforehand. All those surrounding him Hamas "activists" anyway, so why would anything change?

Oh, and btw, Pax, (using a hyperbole here), don't you think that killoing Hitler would be immoral? Killing leaders in times of war is a legitimate tactic, as long as they make strategic decision-making, and he certainly was.

I think that this has been done to weaken the central authority in Hamas, before the withdrawal, and not to pander the right. ( It's hardly a balance, really )
So we presume you consider Sharon a legitimate target for assasination?
__________________
Best MMORPG on the net: www.cyberdunk.com?ref=310845

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. -Gandhi
The Mad Viking is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 11:47   #127
Cruddy
Warlord
 
Cruddy's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 217
Was Yassin as valid a target as the Jewish Tourism minister that was killed a few years back?

Both were rhetorical fire breathing hateful windbags.

The difference is, if Israel had been a little more patient Yassin would have died soon anyway.

If killing one is wrong, both both are wrong - and by the way, whatever happened to "Thou shalt not murder". Let alone "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours land".

Violent subcultures are not defeated by cutting off heads. They are like hydras - for every head you cut, 2 more grow.



As for Israel surviving forever - I wouldn't put money on it.

Mind you, I wouldn't put money on Israel not surviving until wolrd oil supplies start getting tight.

Then it might make a useful bargaining chip to be thrown to the wolves.

Sorry to be vague - but I can't claim to read the future, unlike some of the posts above.
__________________
Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
"The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

Last edited by Cruddy; March 22, 2004 at 11:55.
Cruddy is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 11:48   #128
MrFun
Emperor
 
MrFun's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,595
Shame on Israel for taking any action necessary to defend itself!!
__________________
STFU and then GTFO!
MrFun is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 13:08   #129
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
On the notion that raids are impossible- Israel launches raids in the extreemly densely populated refugee camps all the time to arrest militants-if the IDF will risk soldiers lives, and the lives of Pal. civilians to get low level militants, all of sudden this is utterly impossible with high level ones?

This is my theory- besides some real concerns about such a raid, but concerns that can't be really absolute given the evidence, this is the governments way to get around that pesky lacks of a DP. If a militant were caught and given a trial, could they be put to death given that Israel does not have a DP? but if we kill them extra-judiciously, well, what the hey.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 13:38   #130
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
Quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
I refuse to take any joy from a death of another human, but I can't say I'm losing my sleep over this.
WHO ARE YOU, AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH PEKKA!?!?
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
chequita guevara is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 13:48   #131
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
Quote:
Originally posted by dannubis
tell that to the parents or children of the people who died while the idf was taking out it's target ...
Tell it to the parents of the children who would have died had this target not been taken out...
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 13:49   #132
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
Why don't they use snipers instead?
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
chequita guevara is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 13:50   #133
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
I dunno - why don't you ask them?

Do you seriously think the IDF wants more civilian dead? They aren't stupid; they know what's in their best interest.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 13:54   #134
Firelad
Settler
 
Local Time: 21:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Haifa, Israel.
Posts: 1
THEY ARE ****ING IDIOTS. This guy was as perfectly harmless as you can get as a member of Hamas at all. Now they've got another martyr to wave around. Thanks very much Uncle Sharon.
Demoralise my ass. The only thing this means is more and more terror and more terrorists. Nothing bloody else. Victory. Thanks.
I'm taking quite a few buses tomorrow. Yay. Plus I'll be in bloody uniform.
__________________
Brought to you by Firelad, AKA King of the Fairies
Firelad is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:18   #135
Docfeelgood
Emperor
 
Docfeelgood's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: of Texas
Posts: 4,880
Ding-Dong the witch is dead
__________________
------------------------------------------------
"Soylent Green is people!"
Docfeelgood is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:24   #136
Docfeelgood
Emperor
 
Docfeelgood's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: of Texas
Posts: 4,880
Quote:
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours land".
The Jewish Palastinians tryed to live peacfully with the Arab palistians.




Those Arabs were the ones who started the killins first.

Who you trying to place blame?
__________________
------------------------------------------------
"Soylent Green is people!"
Docfeelgood is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:31   #137
Firelad
Settler
 
Local Time: 21:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Haifa, Israel.
Posts: 1
docfeelgood - not exactly. I'm not saying the jews are solely to blame - but they're not exactly blameless either.
__________________
Brought to you by Firelad, AKA King of the Fairies
Firelad is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:37   #138
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
Quote:
Originally posted by Kucinich
Do you seriously think the IDF wants more civilian dead?
I don't think they care. They're only Palestinians, it's not like they're humans. Better to kill large numbers of collaterals than risk an Israeli.

I happen to believe there is a wing of the IDF, as well as the Israeli government, that believes the conflict is in their best interests. As long as there is conflict, they are justified in remaining in control of the territories, which means they can continue to expand the settlements and continue stealing Palestinian resources.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
chequita guevara is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:39   #139
Docfeelgood
Emperor
 
Docfeelgood's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: of Texas
Posts: 4,880
Quote:
docfeelgood - not exactly. I'm not saying the jews are solely to blame - but they're not exactly blameless either.




How you figure
__________________
------------------------------------------------
"Soylent Green is people!"
Docfeelgood is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:39   #140
Firelad
Settler
 
Local Time: 21:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Haifa, Israel.
Posts: 1
Oh, and I apologise for the possible threadjack. Let's please keep to the point
__________________
Brought to you by Firelad, AKA King of the Fairies
Firelad is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:42   #141
dannubis
King
 
dannubis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Gent
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally posted by Kucinich


Tell it to the parents of the children who would have died had this target not been taken out...
yeah, would have ...
__________________
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -- Plato
dannubis is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:44   #142
Nubclear
NationStatesCall to Power II Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamRise of Nations MultiplayerACDG The Human HiveNever Ending StoriesACDG The Free DronesACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessGalCiv Apolyton EmpireACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameDiplomacyAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG Peace
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
 
Nubclear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 19:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
Shame on Israel for taking any action necessary to defend itself!!
Palestinians don't seem to be incredibly pleased, and Hamas hasn't exactly dissolved because of this either.
In fact, I'd say in short term is makes Israel *less* safe.
Nubclear is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:45   #143
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally posted by Docfeelgood


The Jewish Palastinians tryed to live peacfully with the Arab palistians.
NOt really. While it was the Arabs who first resorted to armed violence, it is not like there was "peaceful" coexistance- think why most Brit. whitepapers writen during their mandate (and all the time as they prepared to create a Jewish homeland) were not very positive about the zionists. For exmaple, the zionist labor movement boycotted any Jewish business that dared employ Arabs "with jewish money", sop as more efficient modern industry built with foreing investment drove the arab artisans out of work, they could not find work at these new factories becuase the owners were bullied into employing only jews, not arabs. As you may guess, this created mass resentment among the ranks of the now unemployed or impoverished.

Think of it this way-imagine any town USA- a group of immigrants starts coming into town-they don;t really hang out-they keep to themselves a lot, and little by little they begin to build a parallel town-then, with outside investment they begin to take hold of the economy, but they do not allow the intial and much more numerous inhabitant to share equally. Add ot this that you know the aim of these new immigrants is to make the town THEIR town, a town for them-with you having rights fine, but the town is still for THEM. Now tell me if you think the original inhabitants will be happy with this sort of outcome?
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:47   #144
Docfeelgood
Emperor
 
Docfeelgood's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: of Texas
Posts: 4,880
Quote:
I happen to believe there is a wing of the IDF, as well as the Israeli government, that believes the conflict is in their best interests. As long as there is conflict, they are justified in remaining in control of the territories, which means they can continue to expand the settlements and continue stealing Palestinian resources.




I happen to believe that the Arab Palastinians just want to kill.
If there were no Jews Palastinians in Israel they would be killing each other.
__________________
------------------------------------------------
"Soylent Green is people!"
Docfeelgood is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:51   #145
Whoha
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 Morgan
Emperor
 
Whoha's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Posts: 3,700
Quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
OK guys, I'm talking very long term here, like 100 years at least. Don't you know that most peoples in history stopped existing after being enslaved/massacred? By virtue of its geographical position and historical hatred, Israel is the perfect meat.
Israel will most likely annihilate every Arab population center should they try anything like this. By the way, in 100 years we won't be on oil, and the Arab world really hits rock bottom.
Whoha is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:52   #146
Bereta_Eder
Settler
 
Bereta_Eder's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
A french journalist said that's nothing. around 40 to 50 more years of violence...
Bereta_Eder is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:53   #147
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally posted by Whoha


Israel will most likely annihilate every Arab population center should they try anything like this. By the way, in 100 years we won't be on oil, and the Arab world really hits rock bottom.
And we don't? (without oil that is)
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 14:59   #148
Gatekeeper
Mac
King
 
Gatekeeper's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: United States of America
Posts: 2,306
Quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
I don't know, I'm just extrapolating from the fact that Israel is outnumbered in a 40 to 1 ration. That'll cost you eventually. Maybe the Arabs will get some kind of alliance with China?
Hmm. Last I heard, China was busy cracking down on Muslim militants in Xinjiang Province (I think that's the correct name ... anyway, it's one of the most western provinces in China). So long as that continues, I don't forsee any possibility of an Arab-China allliance. Unless, of course, the good Muslim folks in said province become, well, expendable for the greater good.

Gatekeeper
__________________
"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

"Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius
Gatekeeper is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 15:03   #149
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
Quote:
Originally posted by Docfeelgood



I happen to believe that . . .
That's far too simplistic, but it does fit with the agenda of those who don't want to see that the Israelis are behaving badly and that the Palestinians, whatever their poblems, have very real greivences.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
chequita guevara is offline  
Old March 22, 2004, 15:06   #150
Nubclear
NationStatesCall to Power II Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamRise of Nations MultiplayerACDG The Human HiveNever Ending StoriesACDG The Free DronesACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessGalCiv Apolyton EmpireACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameDiplomacyAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization IV PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG Peace
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
 
Nubclear's Avatar
 
Local Time: 19:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally posted by Gatekeeper


Hmm. Last I heard, China was busy cracking down on Muslim militants in Xinjiang Province (I think that's the correct name ... anyway, it's one of the most western provinces in China). So long as that continues, I don't forsee any possibility of an Arab-China allliance. Unless, of course, the good Muslim folks in said province become, well, expendable for the greater good.

Gatekeeper
China and Pakistan are very close.
Nubclear is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 15:32.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team