Diplo V Fair Version, players needed

[Frank Johnson]

Hey all. Easthaven and I have desided to start a true version of Diplo V to be played on Friday nights (american) or Saturdays. We need Viking, Japanese, and Indian players.

Background:

India - The largest empire in the game in terms of population, production, and technology. They also have serveral of the best wonders, although the Indian Empire is in crisis as they have declared war on Egypt and the might of Egypt's Chinese allies have fallen upon them. Are Indian's advanced technology and defensive preparation enough?

Vikings - The silent nation. Although not a super power, the Vikings bring a considerable set of resources to the table with solid cities in Northern Europe and Russia. The Vikings profess neutrality in all conflicts and isolate themselves, but they may in the end, bag the space race due to the huge war fought by the others.

Japan - A relucant friend of the Indians. Once, due to a combined Chinese and Indian effort they were driven from there orginal home in the Russian Far East to the New World. Unwilling to wage war against the Chinese for the Indians, India trusts in them to deny China victory in space.


Easthaven will be controling the Egpytians and I my Chinese. If you can play on Friday nights or saturdays please sign up.

[Rasputin]

oh my a game split, this should be interesting !@!!!!!

[Berzerker]

I cant wait for "Diplo V Fair version" to split and become "Diplo V Fairer Version"

[KhanMan]

I can play Saturdays, and late Friday night (ie. after 2 AM Central Time).

If this fits, sign me up.

Note: I'm not making any judgement calls with this post-I have no knowledge of past events, but this seems interesting.

That said, Vikings free?

-KhanMan, honorably Sayen

ICQ 67129783
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by KhanMan (edited September 30, 2000).]</font>

[finbar]

Read up on the game history, KhanMan. Read up. Do yourself a favour and read up. You'll discover a legendary case of dummy-spitting.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by finbar (edited September 30, 2000).]</font>

[Berzerker]

"Dummy-spitting"?

[finbar]

Yeah, "dummy-spitting". I thought it was a universal expression. Oh well, maybe not. "Dummy" as in the thing you put in a baby's mouth. Called a "pacifier" in some parts, I believe. "Spit" as in - well, spit out. Someone who "spits the dummy" is someone who throws a tantrum, or quits, or abandons responsibility for no valid reason. Call it a a metaphor for childishness.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by finbar (edited September 30, 2000).]</font>

[Empress]

Is this the first time somethign like this has happend? to have a split like this of the same game??

[finbar]

Undoubtedly. I've never seen a dummy-spit like it before.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Mercantile]

doens't it happen at the zone all the time

[finbar]

I think Empress meant here. In the real Civ world.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Mercantile]

duly corrected then

[OzzyKP]

I think the split is a novel end to a game of this magnitude. I enjoy the lessons taught to us looking to start an equally long lasting diplo game.

Personally the biggest thrill i get out of this whole thing is learning the expression "Dummy-Spit"

hehe, australlians.....

[KhanMan]

I remember reading some other diplomacy tales where people have left, and started their own game. Curumbor E was involved in one of these, I forget how, over a dispute on total war vs. limited war, though I believe that game fell apart.

As for reading back histories, I care not what lead to this historic oportunity, rather, I find it fascinating to think of two, side by side, diplomacy tales, a la alternate worlds...

...or maybe ToT has finally corrupted me with the promise of many worlds

-KhanMan, honorably of Sayen

[finbar]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by KhanMan on 10-01-2000 02:36 AM</font>

As for reading back histories, I care not what lead to this historic oportunity

-KhanMan, honorably of Sayen
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I only suggested it on the basis that you seemed to be considering joining Frank's version of the game. To alert you to what would most certainly happen all over again.



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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Frank Johnson]

Rather defensive aren't you finbar? Well how about this, I've stopped spaming your thread so would you please stop spaming mine.

Thanks to those interested in play, what time would be good for a Saturday for a start time?

[Berzerker]

Hey Frank, you accuse us of cheating, you imply we are unfair with your title here - and you expect us to leave your threads alone so you can make your accusations without rebuttal?

[finbar]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>&lt;font size=1&gt;Originally posted by Frank Johnson on 10-01-2000 10:02 AM&lt;/font&gt;
Rather defensive aren't you finbar?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Not defensive, Frank, not in the slightest. I have nothing to be defensive about. I didn't grizzle at every opportunity and make unfounded accusations of cheating. Most of all, I didn't take my bat and ball and go home in a sulk as a result of a widely-known and equally widely-understood - not to mention accepted - Civ occurrence. So, far from spamming, I think I'm performing a public service.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by finbar (edited October 01, 2000).]</font>

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by KhanMan on 10-01-2000 02:36 AM</font>
I remember reading some other diplomacy tales where people have left, and started their own game. Curumbor E was involved in one of these, I forget how, over a dispute on total war vs. limited war, though I believe that game fell apart.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Yeah, Diplomacy IV, composed principally of the same players as Diplomacy V, fell apart when Frank decided to pursue Weezil to extinction. He failed, but the bad blood caused the game to stop. We revised and clarified the rules for Diplomacy V, which has been remarkably successful as a result.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Frank Johnson on 09-29-2000 11:14 PM</font>
Hey all. Easthaven and I have desided to start a true version of Diplo V...

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

No you haven't. Easthaven just ICQ'ed me to say that he never agreed to such a thing; in fact, he called it "bull****."

Frank, I advise you to seek professional counseling.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Frank Johnson]

Maybe I assumed too much, but read my ICQ log.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
Me: Would you play in my fair version of diplo V ?

East: what do u mean?

Me: I mean Diplo V fair version. We'll start before the sub, and Ill get subs for the others. I can easily get 3 Im not a gameleague admin for nothing.

Me :What do you say? It'll be fun, espically if I get DEITY to play India, he a natural at fighting with me.

East: u mean play now? i would love to play that game but i can't now

Me: Not now I still have to get the subs, but Id like you to still play as egypt when we do.

East: sure

Me: Cool, do you want to change the game time to one that is better for you? What times could you play ?

East: i can play on friday nights except this night, and maybe saturday

Me: Ok so Ill say friday nights and saturdays. cool.



<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>


For give me for ASSUMING that Easthaven understood what I said. Apparently he didn't. So the game is off. As for you EC, test my patience no futher. You just can't wait to take another swing at me, maybe if you GOT A LIFE you wouldn't have to worry if I started another version of a game or NOT. I did this thinking that I had EAST's support, so BACK OFF.

[Frank Johnson]

And for the others, I don't think the turn order is a cheat. I think its cheap as hell right up there with things like incremental buying, city bribing, disbanding units after a bribe, and things of that nature , and I don't think you guys are smart enough to plan it in the first place. It's something that I'd never seen used in a manor that could crash a government in a single turn, so I didn't think of it, but now I think it's something that should be annouced at the start of a game if that is a legimate tactic, since it can crash a government in a single turn with no method of stopping it, or counter attacking an enemy with it. Finbar I never fought with you, so stop being EC's lapdog and shut up.

My main bone to pick is that I played a game for months, building up to one vital turn, and for that turn an uninformed by the last player, EC recruited, prior treaty ignoring sub entered and took my fate completely out of my hands, and the hands of my true ally. Try putting yourself in my shoes before you say oh its so legimate.

In my ICQ logs I told EC that this would be the final battle and that if Easthaven put the dagger in my back I'd resign in defeat....instead I got some sub that EC recruited and he implied that his negoiations were some how deeper in progression to mine, and even implied that East already had agreed to attack me. That was always the core of my case.

[Rasputin]

Actually I think I missed something here, what is this Carshing a government in one turn about. The rules state that to make a democracy crash it takes two turns of revolt in same city. Not one turn...

Please explain more !!!!!!

[rah]

If I read correctly, The city had already been in rovolt for a turn. So the camping on a good trade square and ending the turn gave Frank no time to reajust the city to avoid a second turn of revolt, hence the fall of the government.

Whether this is a cheat or not is laughable. As Frank stated he had never seen this before and got caught with his pants down, hence sour grapes. Anyone that has a border town that has been in revolt already for a turn better not take a chance and create an extra elvis to make sure of no funny stuff. We've seen a lot of things that a player will do and rush the end of the turn to try and catch the next player unaware. This is a standard strategy and gives you a slight advantage over the next person in the turn sequence, just like the player before you has an edge against you. A cheat, hah. He just got out thought.

Of course Frank's behaviour doesn't surprise me. I've played in only two games with Frank, and in both of them, as soon as something bad happened to him, he disappeared without warning or comment. After the first time I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and say bad connection, even though I had just decimated his attack force and built the Great Wall right before he could. (coincidence) But when it happened the second time I played him, I just decided that he was that type of rude whiner and I would never join a game with him again. He had wasted quite a few peoples time in those two games. So his actions here again fit the pattern.

This thread should have been named Diplo V Frank must win Version, supplicants needed.

RAH

[finbar]

Mmm. I'd heard there were problems of a similar nature before. So it goes, so it goes.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Frank Johnson]

It was a captured city, with about half its population made into elvises. Rah, I left those games yeah, i lost them and it was 2 am in my time zone, I really didn't think twice about it.

[Frank Johnson]

(goes to check his files to see who has left every single pickup duel and little 3 player 2x 2x game he's ever played once a outcome was obvious.....)

[Curumbor Elendil]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Frank Johnson on 10-01-2000 10:51 PM</font>
For give me for ASSUMING that Easthaven understood what I said. Apparently he didn't. So the game is off. As for you EC, test my patience no futher. You just can't wait to take another swing at me, maybe if you GOT A LIFE you wouldn't have to worry if I started another version of a game or NOT. I did this thinking that I had EAST's support, so BACK OFF.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Look, Frank, I don't want to start a big thing with you, but recruiting players from the original game for your own version is an attempt at sabotaging this game, and as host I have a responsibility to stop it. I'd like nothing more than to get past this whole sorry episode so that we can all ignore you in peace, and I shall hereby begin to do just that myself.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[rah]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Frank Johnson on 10-02-2000 09:43 AM</font>
It was a captured city, with about half its population made into elvises. Rah, I left those games yeah, i lost them and it was 2 am in my time zone, I really didn't think twice about it.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Most courteous players will at least announce that they are leaving before they do, so that's a piss poor excuse. Without that announcement, everyone else will wait around it case it was a technical problem. (sometimes for quite a while). So let's call it what it is, RUDE. Besides I have continued many games that I was losing in so the other players can have their fun. You can't win everytime. Next time show some class.

RAH
And I still think it's dumb by not making a few extra elvis. Admit it, they caught you with your pants down. Stop whining about it.

[Frank Johnson]

I think it was reasonable, considering it was a split determined by only one vote. I would not think of being in such a position if I had stood alone.

If you want to argue about turn order, do it to the end of time. The fact remains that if easthaven had played it would have never happened.