The way of the apolyton brat

[Kaak]

Eyes is right, maybe he likes to host because every time he and I play, I host. dunno tho...

[SuperSneak]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Carolus Rex on 09-28-2000 12:54 PM</font>
Try this link:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HTML/001459-2.html

The posts by myself ( ) and (especially) DaveV is a good beginning.

BTW, that is only the second page in a thread with three pages. You may want to check out the entire thread.

Carolus

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited September 28, 2000).]</font>
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Thanks!
No wonder MP games always got away from me!
Does everyone do this?
Bummer...seems to make the game more tedious...which is one of the problems I have with it to begin with.
sigh
Oh, well.

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Bring it!

"How ridiculous and how strange, to be surprised by anything that happens in life." Marcus Aurelius (Meditations)

[Ming]

Well... it does give you something to do while you are waiting for your turn

[Carolus Rex]

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<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Eyes Of Night on 09-28-2000 02:23 PM</font>

And who the hell do you think hosts every ****ing time when I play with kaak? He does and I've won the past 6 times. You know the hut trick only works when you're not the host right? So you should be wanting me to host rather than me not hosting, unless of course you trust me so much. hehehee By the way, I do restart when I get tech and settlers. That's the only way the players on gameleague will play. Maybe you people should leave your inner circle and play other places for once. You're very ignorant.


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I don't have the slightest idea if you host or not when you play against others. I admit, ignorant indeed of me!

You don't have to turn to league players to get restarts to eliminate free techs or extra settlers. My guess is that 99% of all players agree on it. In fact, Kengel (another Apolyton brat ) wrote a piece of software that eliminates the host tech advantage.

Good to hear that there is no disagreement on this one.

SuperSneak,

You're welcome (and yes I hate it too, but if I don't do it I'm toast even quicker than when I use it... ).

Carolus

[Hydey]

Once again I read a thread and learn something new about this wonderful game. Thankyou all

I have played may games with AH and know he would never cheat, he is also not the best player I have played although he is very good. I must point out that AH has always been willing to pass on advice which has helped make me a better player.

I have not had the pleasure of playing Eyes so I can not comment on whether he is a cheat or not. If given an oppotunity I would happily accept a game with Eyes and hope that if he wins he can pass on some advice that makes me a better player. For that way I become a better challege for his powers.

If I think someone is a cheat, I just don't play with them. Pretty soon they will run out of people to play.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

I find it interesting what it is Eyes responds to in my post. Only the parts that threaten his *civ greatest*.

Eyes is the kind of child who thinks (and tells everyone) 'I'm great, I'm great, I'm great, I'm great'.

As long as you understand that this is the kind of person/kid you're dealing with... well, it's cool I guess.

Kinda like watching McEnroe play tennis. It got to the point it was fun watching him throw a spaz.

Can't you see Eyes, it's not that you win that gets people upset (even if you do cheat), but how you handle yourself after the fact. What, do you go to bed at the end of the day glowing over your 51 cities???

Ming, I never accused Eyes of cheating, I have merely followed a line of speculation that Eyes has fully encouraged, hypothesised on the imponderables of the games.

Fair is fair, I have left the question of cheating open and if you read the icq and chat logs posted here it is clear that I had no intention of posting a thread questioning his play.

IMO, Eyes did it basically to get attention and to slag off at Apolytoners. He has brought his own play into scrutiny. He wanted me to accuse him of cheating but I haven't. That is partly why this whole thread has backfired on him. The rest seems to be his own track record, which has come back to haunt him.

As you know, I'm not argumentative


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Don't worry, I won't tell anyone

Your secret is safe with me

[Ming]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 09-28-2000 06:44 PM</font>

As you know, I'm not argumentative

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HA HA HA HA HA!

But to the real point of your post, I did go back and read your comments again... and your assesment is correct

Actually I don't really think about civ once I get off the computer and I would rather go out and get drunk than play this game. And I wouldn't have said that AH sucks if he hadn't "suspected" me of cheating. I like to get nasty when people do that. If you can't handle it, then don't dish it. Just keep your ****ing mouth shut and you won't have to deal with this.

Well Eyes I learned a lot from those games - the implications of lower settings were quite remarkable. I can also see how you can be beaten on those settings, whether you cheat or not



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Don't worry, I won't tell anyone

Your secret is safe with me

How I can be beaten? Only if someone gets a really good start from huts and then makes good use of it. I'm basically unstoppable.

[Crustacian]

If the players in game are limited to original Microprose software (game CD & patch), and not benifiting form lag related bugs, or other "cheats" unless mutually agreed on by all players...

I contend then that no one would be basically unstopable. Among the best players winners would win most of the time at best but not 9 out of 10 times. Maybe one player would win another as Kaak said 9 out of 10, but no one player could be unstopable to all others by a wide margine, simply because the game parameters are limited and mastered by more than a few.

Things like using the most efficient route to tip huts according to the known patterns are not studied by all, and the player who has mastered even this one tiny aspect of the game will have an advantage over one who has not for example.

I just do not believe that any one player can legitimately whoop everyone else almost all the time. hehe...even Clint Eastwood used an "edge" to gain the advantage (The Outlaw Josey Wales) The "in game" features are limited and the only real edge you can have is mastering them. And there are more than one master floating around the world.

So my question for you Eyes is that if you were up against 3 or 4 others of the better players in a LAN network setting in a big toiurny room if you will (as Raz once suggested as a truely fair game) with people observing the players, using ONLY original Microprose software, no lag bugs, and any other "cheats" being strictly mutually agreed on by all, with whatever settings or combo of settings in say 3 games... would you really be "basically unstoppable?

Also Eyes if you are so basically unstoppable then why did you need a whimpy restart from your island location? Wouldn't such a great player take it as a challenge, like most of the players i have played with seem to do?

I think these are fair questions, and the subject of a truely fair game has been often brought up, even by Carnides post about a chesslike game, which interests me too.

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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

[Crustacian]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Carolus Rex on 09-28-2000 04:57 PM</font>

You don't have to turn to league players to get restarts to eliminate free techs or extra settlers. My guess is that 99% of all players agree on it. In fact, Kengel (another Apolyton brat ) wrote a piece of software that eliminates the host tech advantage.

Carolus
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I would be a little "cautious" of Kengel's program as it has often seemed to turn his Civ a green color
Just kidding, it would save many headaches to have such a program and I hope the host tech advantage in MP games is illiminated in Civ3

First of all I don't play large MP games. I play duels. And yes I am virtually unstoppable. I'm currently at 15 wins in a row with 300 points ahead of even the closest player to me on gameleague. I plan to make that 500 points ahead very soon with a 20 win streak.

[SuperSneak]

To Emperor Horsie (1350 B.C.): You said you'd make me "look stupid and a cheater to boot", prove it.

Well...you definitely look stupid. Me thinks thou dost protest too much.
A good fibber supplies many details.
A clever fibber, none.

AH...now that I have more time ;(...I'd be happy to play you...I'm not clever enough to cheat.

Could someone please explain how to rush buy? I can't seem to figure it out...in simple terms with an example, please. I must have the steps messed up.

Carry on.

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Bring it!

"How ridiculous and how strange, to be surprised by anything that happens in life." Marcus Aurelius (Meditations)

[Carolus Rex]

Try this link:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HTML/001459-2.html

The posts by myself ( ) and (especially) DaveV is a good beginning.

BTW, that is only the second page in a thread with three pages. You may want to check out the entire thread.

Carolus

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited September 28, 2000).]</font>

[My Wife Hates CIV]

You're a legend in your own mind.

Damn, forgot to ask him if he got host techs. Eyes hosted 5 games in a row and never declared a start tech - must be a new record

[Hydey]

we could not even start one game without host techs

5 in a row must be a world record.

[UltraSonix]

*OK, I'm new to this forum, but I heard some guys mentioned that eyes has been caught cheating in the past. What was that all about? Perhaps if we cleared that up first, it would help?

*What about when AH said that he opened to save and somehting like 35/50 of eyes cities went straight into disorder?

*And answer the question about the lan - how about if you were one-on-one on a no(small)-lag network, still think you could do it?

*By the way, eyes, your ego's so big that it alone keeps this thread floating on top... it doesn't matter how good you are, but man!

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

[Ming]

We will NOT bring out all the old trash on EON.

That is now in the past, and will remain in the past.
It's over with!

As far as his cities going into disorder... two things could cause that. If the AI actually moves when you load, half the units providing martial law would leave the cities on the first chance the AI gets...

But more likely, AH loaded the game in regular mode to look at the map through the scenario editor. It isn't at two time production (which they were playing). You only get half the trade that he gets in DP... that could cause every city to go into disorder

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

[Rasputin]

I shouldnt really post here as Eyes has simply started this to get just such the respoonse as seen here.
There are way too many cheats available on the net that allow you to change settings of the game even while it is running that are almost undetectable, especially if you do it carefully.
I think MWHC idea of playing Eyes and using cheats against him like 2nd PC and opening map is one good way of proving or disproving him of cheating.
I now though totally agree with Ming don't accuse people of cheating without the evidence. Save every turn.
Then after game is concluded, open up the oppositions civ and check status every turn. Open every city and check production orders and happyness and sheild production and food growth. Notice any discrepancies between turns.
Once you have done all this and you find any thing unusual post a thread here and alllow the more experienced players to check over the details .
Finally once anyone has been proved of cheating they should be asked for an apology or not allowed to post here anymore But also if some one is dispoved of cheating then they deserve an apology too....

[Ming]

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

And EON did apologize

If you have proof... have fun! If not... we don't want to hear it!

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

When I went into Eye's civ I started the game in the normal way and just went into his civ instead of mine. The game settings were correct, his civ was in a goverment (monarchy). I changed nothing in terms of his civ settings, I didn't get the chance, because over half his cities immediately went into revolt, upon his turn starting. Coincidence? It made me think he always wants to host because he's tweaked his rule.txt or settings somehow. I'm not saying he did, it just made me wonder.

I'm happy to share this save with anyone who wants to look at it. Its probably all perfectly explainable.


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Don't worry, I won't tell anyone

Your secret is safe with me

[oedo]

when you have to carry 40+ cities you will struggle big unhappiness problems. you will have to balance your cities out each turn to avaoid unrest, especially when you found half a dozen of cities each turn. each new city unbalances the empire´s happiness. that´s why half of the cities revolted.

[Rasputin]

If they went into disorder after you opened the game AH then they would have gone into disorder under EoN too. The saved game also saves the location of each citizen so if he was using entertainers to keep city happy then they would still be entertainers when you opened it.
I have noticed this kind of thing beofre with certain players who have altered the game rules.txt, basically gets their civ to behave more like th aI when it comes to unhapiness ( Try switcihng to an AI controlled CIV and find out how many citys automatically go into revolt)
I am not suggesting this happebned in this case , but to clear the air can we get EoN to explain how his Civ was happy under his control.

Considering the fact AH hosted basically the entire game I don't know why you're even bothering with this. It obviously had no effect on gameplay.

[suas333]

Wow, PLaying Civ at Apolyton and at Gameleague is like 2 separate games.

AH, It seems that when you load the game up its loading on 1x1x, when the actual game was 2x2x. This is probably why the cities went into disorder.

And the bug i was referring to about checking unit proximity to city, is definatley considered cheating at apolyton, but not at gameleague!

Eyes, you have trouble gettingleaguers to believe you, no sense in trying to convince people here. If there is any kind of cheating, which i doubt, then its not the provable kind anyway.

[Rasputin]

AH send me a copy of the saved game to look at please....

[Mercantile]

perhaps this witchhunt should be conducted privately, and then when you have whatever evidence you need, you can come back and slander this kid like everyone seems to do. Although this expansion leaves me rolling my eyes, and EON has an ego the size of a whole community, there is no proof as of yet so quit trying to roast him in the forums. It takes two sides to feud and it seems that some other outspoken individuals thrive on the melodrama as well

Bring it on if you have proof, otherwise this is just some sort of spamming, i thought that sort of thing was frowned upon in the ON TOPIC forums, but maybe i misread that thread in the Apolyton section.

Even better, why don't we set up a soap section or a he's a cheater section

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Free Trade is good for everyone, it allows you to buy bigger guns!