column 131: BACK TO THE FUTURE: IS APOLYTON CRUMBLING?

September 2, 2000, 17:27

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<a href="/misc/column/131_apolyton.shtml" target="_top">#131 BACK TO THE FUTURE: IS APOLYTON CRUMBLING?</A>

<FONT SIZE="2">Carolus Rex is being pessimistic...</FONT>

Shadowstrike · September 2, 2000, 18:11

I dunno, I think its the wait for Civ III mostly, but I have noticed that the forums have been slowing down lately (both server wise and postwise)

You could say the author is pessimistic, but the site is somehow slowing down. It would take an invigorating event (such as the release of Civ III) t ostart it up again.

September 3, 2000, 01:38

Scary.

Kind of like the slow fall of the Soviet Union. But I think Civ III will save us.

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-Austin the Iron Fisted, not Somgu! Austin the Iron Fisted= soon-to-be 'MASTER DEITY' of Apolyton!

September 3, 2000, 02:07

I think apolyton will survive, but won't be the same I think we'll lose a lot of people. But Civ3 news will keep us here and maybe brighten people up and some of us will leave the OT for once

CTP2 if good will help a lot too while we wait, and wait and wait for some news on Civ3. I think Firaxis should give Apolyton some exclusive news

September 3, 2000, 04:18

The OT can sustain Apoyton for a very long time. Eventually a new Civ, CTP or Sid product will emerge and a fresh influx of visitors will arrive.

Patriqvium · September 3, 2000, 05:07

This site may crumble, but not fall! (and not only because the OT forum is next to immortal)

Lord Silvi · September 3, 2000, 05:55

Off Topic will let Apolyton live forever, but those guys have be remember that once they were civers.

The CTP forum is dead now. I posted in CTP strategy two weeks ago and I got no reply, ZERO.

CTP 2 will bring Apolyton up again. You will see.
This game will not be the minor relative of Civ II or III. IMHO every civer will play this.
CTP 2 will reign the PCs.

Hint for a even larger Apolyton:
Take Master of Orion 3 as an civ-game. MOO has a big fan community.

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For those who fight for it, life has a flavour the sheltered never know.

tonic · September 3, 2000, 08:37

Even CR must admit there has been a resurgence of interest in civ2 strategy with the moves on foot to organise, sort and present the wisdom in the archives.

I think it's like a lot of forums - formats and participants may change through time (the nature of the e-beast) but having thrived over 2 years, I'd say Apolyton has almost stood the test of time.

September 3, 2000, 08:46

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Lord Silvi on 09-03-2000 05:55 AM</font>
Off Topic will let Apolyton live forever, but those guys have be remember that once they were civers.

CTP 2 will bring Apolyton up again. You will see.
This game will not be the minor relative of Civ II or III. IMHO every civer will play this.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

1. not all OT-posters have played civ... there are some among them who don't even know how civilization is written... trust me

2. I consider myself a civer.. and I won't play CtP II as CtP deceived me in every point... but don't let us bring up that old discussion again, Wessi

Empress · September 3, 2000, 11:11

I feel that Carlos Rex is being a bit pessimistic. However, it is not Apolyton who is dying, it is we, the players, the fans! We are the ones who give life to the site, if there are no posts in a forum, it is we who are to blame. Second, look at how many newly registered users are coming to the site. The increase in users from last year to this year is amazing. Third, you mentioned that people will not come here for the Off Topic alone, I beg to differ. As Andez pointed out, many people have never played civ or Smac or CTP and yet are at Apolyton b/c of the good reviews we the posters have given. Therefore, I see reason for optimism

Lord Silvi · September 3, 2000, 15:25

"...If there aro no posts in a forum, it is we who are to blame..."
Allright its my fault. My next new topic must be more attractive or offensive.
I like this place because of exellent strategy hints!!

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For those who fight for it, life has a flavour the sheltered never know.

DarkCloud · September 3, 2000, 16:06

Apolyton only needs a few vibrant and prolific posters to bring it up to speed.

If you post in 20 topics in Civ III ideas then within a day there will be over 30 new posts in those categories. (Not counting your own)

This has been demonstrated by Christantine, UltraSonix and my own runs on the Civ III ideas.

So in conclusion if one prolific poster posts a lot then Apolyton will be saved for he/she has gathered interest.

Dr.Oogkloot · September 3, 2000, 17:07

I tend to agree with Carolus Rex...there seems to be very little activity in the on-topic forums lately. Post, people!

cavebear · September 3, 2000, 18:20

Apolyton is not dying. I think it is more that some people are thinking so because they miss seeing the handles of some of the past masters of the game. It's a perception problem...

There are more people playing CivII through Apolyton than ever before. There are GameLeague battles, there is Tribe play, there are individually-arranged games. Apolyton is more than the posts, it is the CivII gaming culture itself, *centered* around the posts.

It should not be surprising that the quantity of posts has declined; how often can we debate military unit matchups or the value of particular Wonders? That grows old (and somewhat settled) eventually. However, the playing goes on.

I think part of the perception problem is that there are many new names today. Non-recognition makes many people assume that there are not the same top players around anymore. Well, they are correct. Players come, and players go, and new names move to the top. So what? New top guns will always replace the old, that's the way things go. For every established name that grows tired of CivII, there are 2 more newbies who show up and state that they have learned the game and wish to match their skills against those there.

No, I don't think Apolyton is dying, I think it is just being reborn. With different players, with different posters, with different questions, and with different strategy ideas.

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Proud participant in GameLeague...

Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance...

Provost Harrison · September 3, 2000, 19:21

Apolyton isn't dead. It is just nostalgia and the good ol' days. I look back at owo like that now. But in reality, I know the atmosphere here is better than that. We have a good community of people. Yep, things may be slow on-topic, but I don't think this can be avoided. I think most of the strategic issues and the like of Civ/Civ2/SMAC/CTP have pretty much been discussed to death over the years. Civ3 should bring some much needed invigoration and topical on-topic discussion. But OT seems to be as strong as ever, IMHO, from what I can remember. Posters come and posters go, some of us would like to think of ourselves as a little more 'loyal' than that. I enjoy the environment, so I'm not budging in the forseeable future!

September 3, 2000, 22:29

I dunno - maybe if Dan put a few more holes in the lid of the jar and Mark put some leaves and twigs in with Apolyton it might live longer.

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Founder of the People's Republic of Topics (PROT)
Convenor, Threadjacking Appreciation Society (TAS)
Proprietor, Apolyton Tea Shop http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum19/H...tml?date=00:06

Gatekeeper · September 4, 2000, 00:04

Everyone:

Apolyton dying? Hardly. Just like with everything else in life, there is and ebb and flow which cannot be denied. Perhaps Apolyton is in a slow cycle right now — due in part to slow loading at times — but it's just part of the great cycle.

I've also seen "ghost" forums scattered about the Web, frequented by nothing more than an occasional curious poster or, more often than not, the same trolls and hackers which destroyed the original vibrancy of said forums. Apolyton, overall, isn't at that stage yet, and I attribute that the care given to Apolyton, both by the admins/mods and users.

CYBERAmazon

(Make me happy, Fireaxis, and release CivIII for the Macintosh, too!)

War4ever · September 4, 2000, 04:36

I personally love this site and although i havent' been here for a couple of months, it was due to circumstance.
I think Cavebear hit the nail on the head when he said that the perception may have changed because some of the old timers, actually he said past masters of the game are not around and their handles are being missed. Admittedly, i see tons of fresh faces, well monikers, and i ask myself, do these guys know me? becasue as of yet i sure don't know them. Yet maybe i am surrounded by some fresh new hunters and i will have the luxury of playing someone who is talented.... time will tell. I see some greats are still here so it can't be all that bad.... is Carolus being pessimistic.... i doubt it... just observing a changing of the guard perhaps. As for civ3, of course it won't live up to expectations, ours are beyound our reach for this series. I am willing to bet it will be pretty damm good though, and if not, thers always civ2

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Ah its good to be back.... i smell the fear of opponents being stalked and i tremble as they turn to face me. i hope i remember how to play!

Glostakarov · September 4, 2000, 10:30

Certainly not dead, just not much to talk about lately. A lot of the possible arguments about the current games have been beaten into the ground, and since most of us are very wary of CTP2, most of us are looking forward to Civ3, which we don't have much info on yet. Not having much info means we don't have much to talk about on topic.

That will all change, of course. I plan to check in regularly as CTP2 gets closer to release, and more when it is actually out. I don't plan to pick it up until I've hopped onto the forums here and found out if they've made a game out of it or not. The talk may all be about how much the game sucks or needs tweaking and moding, but I'm sure the forum will be flying.

That's another thing. A new game means fresh opportunities for modification, and that's always fun to talk about.

Shadowstrike · September 4, 2000, 17:05

Make a MoM forum! This is actually a serious idea. I've always wondered why MoM wasn't covered on Apolyton.

Lord Silvi · September 4, 2000, 18:01

Shadowstrike: What is MoM?

September 4, 2000, 23:42

Want to "expand" on your post, Alexander's Horse?

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Dan; Apolyton CS

Slingshot · September 5, 2000, 00:39

How many times should a fellow debate a topic, then bring newbies up to speed?

How many times have you seen a debate on Inifite City Sleaze that ended up in an eloquent list of bright suggestions?

Apolyton's bane is repetition. We are an endless loop of creativity that is limited by the end result - a product that is developed by somebody else, under their own terms and through their own timetable.

Sure, people can go about making a version of FreeCiv, but that isn't the same.

The most dissapointing thing is limited interaction with those who actually do the coding. Quality programmers like Mr. Ogre are few and far between.

I think it's time to expand the Apolyton universe. Let's put some new elements to it that keep people interested.

Those who submit game mods are a good example of pushing the envelope.

My own contribution has been fan fiction.

MarkG and DanQ are very creative in this way, but I bet they could use some help. Maybe if we suggested cool links to them. These links would be to interesting web sites that talked about other games or personal stuff. Then Apolyton would also be a portal.

What are some other things we can do?

finbar · September 5, 2000, 03:20

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by DanQ on 09-04-2000 11:42 PM</font>
Want to "expand" on your post, Alexander's Horse?

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Dan; Apolyton CS
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Permit me, in Horse's absence, to attempt an explanation. As much as any of Horse's posts are explicable.

When you're a kid and you keep a living thing - a beetle, whatever - in a jar, you put some sort of food supply in the jar and punch some airholes in the lid. Or the living thing - whatever it is - expires.

A bit of Horse whimsy.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

DarkCloud · September 5, 2000, 20:46

Perhaps Apolyton should widen its horizons to include games such as Colonization, Railroad Tycoon,
Pirates GOLD!, and Railroad Tycoon II. Games with relation to Sid Meier or created by Sid Meier.
Also for those of you who did not know Railroad Tycoon III is in development by PopTop and
Pirates II is being discussed by those very same people, so a thread for them on a prominent
website may be all that they need to get the extra push to create those games.

Or maybe Apolyton should take a hint from Sidgames and expand into the realm of Pharaoh, Sim City,
The Sims, and Afterlife threads to inject some new life on the boards.

Are there any other ideas on this from any of you?

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--Remember: A smile is but a frown turned upside down... (Smiling Faces Tell Lies, And That's the Truth!)
--Attack can come from above, behind, around. Or within... (ALIEN)
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--A little known fish: There once was a fish called a bichir in Africa... And there still is...

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Murgatroyd · September 5, 2000, 23:46

The 1 thread/8 hour limit in the OT isn't helping...

Murgatroyd
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Repeal the 1 Thread/8 Hour Limit!

September 6, 2000, 00:20

Or maybe Apolyton should take a hint from Sidgames and expand into the realm of Pharaoh, Sim City,
The Sims, and Afterlife threads to inject some new life on the boards

All of these, save Afterlife, are already covered by other GameStats affiliates, DarkCloud.

As per your other suggestions, we are taking them into consideration. However, we feel as though we better serve you, our visitors, by working to build the sections on the games that we cover to be as thorough as possible as opposed to having many titles covered only in general.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

Provost Harrison · September 6, 2000, 06:59

I agree with Dan. it is certainly better if we stick to Apolytons plan to cover the civ genre, or anything closely related. But I don't think the current 'slackness' can be avoided; there have been no major releases for a while which are relevent, a limiting factor this site can do nothing about. But the OT is still going strong so I don't think there is a great problem...

Father Beast · September 8, 2000, 04:52

Hmmnnn... 25 replies to this column in just a few days. I don't think this place is dead.
I have tried to go other places that cover other games, and there are some that do passably, but Apolyton is not only the best civ site, it's the best game site, IMO. The Wheel of time site, for example, has forums that are fairly dead, MOO2 sites mostly have mp arrangements. No other site serves it's gamers of any game as well as Apolyton does for civ.
The slowdown from frenzy in the forums is just a result of the lack of a civ release lately. We're still playing civ. We're still coming here to discuss it.
Apolyton doesn't need to be revitalized. it doesn't need a revamp, although periodic updates are appreciated.
People are often calling for Apolyton to include MOO forums, or MOM sections, or sim stuff because people want the quality of Apolyton applied to those other games, which they don't get elsewhere.

In short, Apolyton doesn't need reviving, it just needs to continue to be here.

I'm still addicted.

UltraSonix · September 8, 2000, 21:50

Ahhhhhhh! Last time I had a short break from Apolyton, there was that post on RTS Civ3! This time I've had a break, and it's this!

I guess I could partly responsible for this - I posted <A HREF="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/001626.html">here</A>:
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I have the feeling this will be prophetic - some day I'll do a search and find this post and marvel at my ability to predict the future...

Civ3 is dead. Turned Based Strategy is dead. Civ, you have given all of us great memories... Rest In Peace.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
What I meant was:
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I didn't want to say it

, but the feeling has just gotten stronger the longer I've been here (we're all coming up with ideas and all we've got is half the development team quitting), but nevertheless, I will endeavour to offer any suggestions as they come.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Come on guys, don't quit! Civ3's at E3 2001 - it's not dead yet (despite my saying so)!

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited September 08, 2000).]</font>