Tales From the Diplomatic Front V - Page 2

April 21, 2000, 19:31

The beneficent shogun, Berzerker, leader of the Japanese people, using his powers of channeling and insights to future events, has led the people in building the "Oracle"- a unique structure now housing the powers of the Berzerk - the people are very happy with this addition to the empire.

Meanwhile, disaater has be-fallen our exploration team in the Americas - barbarians are massing in the heartland threatening our settlements. But our navy has discovered a passage to a vast sea beyond the Americas - it is our understanding this sea will lead us to the great civilizations to our west, thus sayeth the Oracle

Curumbor Elendil · April 22, 2000, 00:52

This session started an hour late due to difficulties with my ISP. Once it got underway, however, it became quite a fun session. Every civilization improved its position greatly, even the AI-governed Vikings. It is a close game as well. Toward the beginning of the session I found myself at "Inadequate" power, but moved up to "Mighty" in three turns!

After 900 BC the Libertarian/Indian empire set about to rapid expansion. It was necessary to fill in the empty areas between the far-flung Indian cities; moreover, the colonization of North America awaited. By 425 BC the Indians had the second-most cities (by which we mean regional capitals--there are of course hundreds and hundreds of cities of all kinds in the world) of any civilization, and only three fewer regions colonized than the Egyptians. In 475 BC Indian settlers and horsemen completed a long trek across the Pacific and settled the west coast of North America, founding the city of San Francisco. Cartographical exchanges revealed that nearly all the continent had already been explored by the Japanese, however.

The Indian Empire also established boundaries on one front with the Roman Empire, now led by Consul Crustacian. The Asia Minor region and Caucasus area were left wholly in the Roman sphere of influence. The Indians hope, however, to build a line of small settlements along the east coast of the Caspian so as to connect the rest of the empire with her cities in Siberia.

The Vikings/Falcons were taken over by a particularly vicious king, the notorious Alfred Ingman. They actually attacked the Chinese, and several other civilizations desired to exact revenge, but they stayed their hands in the hope that a more reasonable leader would return.

This is the political map of the known world, showing the Empires of the World in their full geographic extent. White=Romans, Purple=Indians, Yellow=Egyptians, Orange=Carthaginians, Bright Dark Blue=Vikings, Bright Light Blue=Chinese, Bright Green=Japanese, Dark Green=Unclaimed/Disputed, Dark Blue=Water, Black=Unexplored.

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

Frank Johnson · April 22, 2000, 01:16

I have to say that map misrepresents my boarder with the Japanese quite a bit, it cuts off the Chinese provinces of Outer Mongolia and Russian Far East. But I'm sure that's not intentional at all....

Plus I'd like to mention that much of that western territory that lays currently as unclaimed is slated to coionized. Only set backs made by evil attacking DARK BLUES, which required the rebuilding of military forces in the region delayed my production of settlers. I expect my two allies, the Libs/Indians and Japanese to respect my claim to centeral asia...as they roll off uncontested expansion in the Americas...these territories denied be due to actions of silly AI should not be snapped up like I ignored them...because that is far from the case. I also plan to settle the remainder of Mayasia and Oceanian...which should off set the lack of any American colonies....

April 22, 2000, 01:44

Love the maps guys, although they do seem to verge on fetish.

Curumbor Elendil · April 22, 2000, 13:48

The map I posted isn't supposed to be definitive. I just tried to work around the dots (representing cities of course). But my hand isn't very steady, so the map isn't completely precise. As far as central Asia is concerned, I do plan to settle part of it, but I'll focus on the desert wastelands to the east of the Caspian in order to link up the two parts of my empire. I'm also not willing just to concede Australia, New Guinea, New Zealand, and Indonesia. Expansion in the Americas will be very slow, and I will doubtless have surplus settlers in Asia that I'll have to do something with. We should just settle in our natural spheres of influence and see what evolves. If empire boundaries get too distorted, we can always trade cities.

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

April 28, 2000, 00:37

A rather inconsequential round this time - we started with 2 subs with the ai contolling one civ. Having met both the Egyptians and Libertarians in the New World, we set out to explore the southern continent. We've added the Great Pyramid to our empire, but our Chinese neighbors have built a magnificent Library to keep the records of humanity's journey through time.

The Egyptians have built a splendid church with a beautiful (we're told) painting displayed across the ceiling in the same tradition as the celestial vision appearing on the ceiling of a temple at Karnak. The Norse men have built a lighthouse making their naval vessels the most advanced in the world. And the Romans have sent a hardy traveler east to meet the triad along the Silk Road - his name is Marco Polo. We have recently discovered it was our ally - the Libertarians - who gave away our maps of the new world - oh well... One footnote, the Romans were taken over by the ai and did in fact bribe a Chinese city

.

Curumbor Elendil · April 28, 2000, 10:12

A round that saw its end rather too soon, we were able however to make it to 1 AD before stopping. The Libertarian advance was rather slow: only two new cities founded, and one city thwarted in its building of Michelangelo's Chapel. The Libertarian civilization, despite its size, still has no wonders to claim, though it appears J.S. Bach's Cathedral will eventually be ours.

The Egyptians desired to trade maps with Libertarian cartographers. The Libertarians conferred first with our allies and were surprised when they all acquiesced, considering the considerable knowledge of the New World that would give the Egyptians.

The Libertarians were able to assist the Chinese in building their Great Library early, which we are sure will redound in technological benefits to the whole alliance.

The Romans were governed for most of the period by the ambitious Addled Intellect (as he was known informally). Despite his aggressiveness the Libertarians were able to maintain the ancient alliance throughout the period.

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

J23SE · April 28, 2000, 17:55

The round's end was partly due to my pressing personal matters. I am speaking for the Pharaoh currently, and, as he is ill (read: He hasn't been showing up

) I am currently deciding whether to take over the growing Egyptian empire.

During my reign, two wonders were built. Bezerker misreported this - The Romans did not build Marco Polo's, it was in fact the Egyptian Empire, in addition to Michelangelo's Chapel.

The Alliance between the three great powers of UFAE (The United Federation of Africa and Europe) continued to prosper, and greater understanding was reached between the nations of MLB and Egypt. Diplomacy is also good between Egypt and the rest of the earth.

It is good to be in this game. Thanks for the opportunity to play

Now, I leave you... Adios

CapTVK · April 29, 2000, 10:00

I've been looking at how the game is progressing and it seems to become an interesting 'race' for the colonization of the Americas. Seeming that control of N.america will provide the key to world domination, colonial wars are bound to show develop. Will the Japanese be able to take total control of N.America and kick the indians out? Will the Chinese help bail out the Indians in their time of need? Or will the European powers walk away the grand prize? Time will tell...

P.S Some of the maps used here are heavy on bandwidth! Contact me if you want a DL-friendly map to use. Here's an example: http://home-1.worldonline.nl/~thomas...d-23-clear.gif
I've been playing around with some graphic programs and I'm getting the hang of making decent maps for Civ2. So if you need a good lowbandwidth world map or a good regional map for your civ game, contact me.

Good luck with the game,

CapTVK

Curumbor Elendil · April 30, 2000, 17:44

Cap--that's a pretty good map; I could download it and use it as a prototype for future maps. Is the *.gif format not as bandwidth-eating as *.jpg? Or is it the lack of colors besides black and white that makes it small byte-wise?

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

Frank Johnson · April 30, 2000, 18:25

The Chinese did their best to catch up with the world in this session. The evil Roman AI managed to bribe a small Chinese province while my funds were tied up contructing the Great Libray.

The Anti-AI party took power in the Chinese government, and confirmed a peice of legislation allowing the complete descrution of all AI controled lands. Thus, from now on the Chinese deny the AI the right to exist, so if you cant get a sub you will DIE AT MY HANDS!

In anycase....at least some progress was made. I will expect the Romans to immediatly compensate me for my losses, by returning the city and paying me 100 gold. I settled two new lands, Kasmir and Java! Clearing for Another city in Malazsia is also underway.

CapTVK · May 2, 2000, 07:19

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 04-30-2000 05:44 PM
Cap--that's a pretty good map; I could download it and use it as a prototype for future maps. Is the *.gif format not as bandwidth-eating as *.jpg? Or is it the lack of colors besides black and white that makes it small byte-wise?

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>

Gif format maps tend to be more economical if you don't use to many colors, 16-32 colours is best. JPG is better for pictures which have a 256+ colours or more. So it jpg is okay for making screenshots, but not for low bandwith maps. If you do intend to use this map I suggest you adjust the brightness/contrast level a a bit, the ocean is a bit too dark. Then open it with a 256 colour palette, fill in the regions, reduce to 16 colors and voila! -> One DL friendly map.

Curumbor Elendil · May 5, 2000, 13:14

In a sudden twist of fate, Albigensus Ineffectualis of the Romans and Augustinus Imbecilus of the Carthaginians signed over their civilizations to the greater powers of the world! The world now consists of five powers: Japanese (allied to Chinese, Indians, and Egyptians), Vikings (unallied), Chinese (allied to Japanese and Indians), Indians (allied to Japanese and Chinese), and Egyptians (allied to Japanese).

It is now 80 AD, and this is the shape of the world:

Onward we go...

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

May 6, 2000, 05:08

That about sums our latest effort

Oh, other than an expolsion of Alaskan barbarians forcing me to abort a wonder about a third completed

[This message has been edited by berzerker (edited May 06, 2000).]

Curumbor Elendil · May 12, 2000, 09:29

For the past three hundred years the brutal tyrant Amaterasu Inchuyama has governed the Japanese empire with an iron fist. By her squeezing every last ounce of effort out of her citizens, the empire has actually vaulted ahead in power, becoming by far the most powerful civilization in the world. The civilized nations of the world had expected that her authoritarian methods would backfire, but apparently not.

The Libertarian Indians added Johannes Bach's Cathedral to King Richard's Crusade in their list of wonders... The Libertarians now enjoy listening to baroque music all day. It improves the mind. However, some of the young folk seem to take the music too far and are inventing new forms thereof: flighty and inconsequential most of it. Most of them enjoy one "Mozart," who is obviously a Satanist and is probably responsible for all the school violence that's been going on.

In political news, the Libertarian allies, the Chinese, defied conventional protocol by signing a secret alliance with the Egyptians without informing the Libertarian leadership. The Chinese leader, whose name Indian tongues cannot pronounce (sounds something like "Jujitsu"), confided that he "had a plan." The Libertarians wonder if they are trying to play both sides. The Libertarians therefore signed an alliance with the Vikings, who despite their isolation, were in danger of being exploited by the large alliances of the world. All will be forgiven the Chinese and Egyptians, however, if they allow the Libertarians and Vikings to join them in a Grand World Alliance. The alliance structure would make war even more difficult, since a cancellation of alliance would first have to be effected.

The Libertarian-Viking alliance was able to manage a small controversy, wherein the Egyptians built two cities near the Viking capital in land the Vikings had considered their own for millennia. The Egyptians promised to disband the cities. Alliance divisions are waiting nearby to assure that this promise is kept.

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

[This message has been edited by Curumbor Elendil (edited May 12, 2000).]

May 13, 2000, 21:13

Damn ICQ, damn ai is better than me at civ!
But watch my cities go into civil disorder when I return...

Frank Johnson · May 13, 2000, 22:27

Well Berz...you are lucky really. Fearing the AI jugernaut...the Chinese mobilized an army of many crusaders, in the event the evil AI desided to fight...had the AI chosen to...it would have only been a matter of a few turns until the Japanese capital fell into my hands. As it stood, the AI broke our alliance when I refused to pay it huge sums of money, but did not attack me.

While I have signed an alliance with serveral nations, China in no way resigns its self to the descions of any sort of Bloc. In fact, the Chinese were quite displeased when the Egyptians unnaounced, began making settlements in the Chinese sphere of influance. This was alarming, considering their distance...

Shortly China will have 2 cities in Austrailia, with serveral more on the way...and settlements on java and the phillipeans. Unannounced ventures into these lands from foreigners only produces stress...as the Chinese are quite jealous of foreign powers who have reached the new world...China refers to these lands as our New World. While the Chinese can tolerate some outside friendly influance in these areas...its is certainly not anyone else's place to dictate who is entitled to these lands, and others whom wish to limitedly share in these lands should take a page from the Egyptians and politly ask. Should I deside to drop a transport in the New World next to your colonies I will do the same.

J23SE · May 14, 2000, 02:02

Egypt's mighty expansion is very far reaching... From the top of the Viking territories to the southernmost Aussie lands.

Let it be clear to all that Egypt moved into Indonesia, and then was prepared to evacuate its settlement in search of a new place. But, under agreement with the Chinese, the city remains and a new one is scheduled to be set up about 600 miles from the present one.

The Chinese are invited to set up a colony in the Americas, by the Egyptian empire.

As for the viking settlement, that action was partly due to the Libertarians occupying the general area. This led me to believe that such actions were permissible, and I settled two cities. The conflict was soon realized and a resolution is pending as settlers are preparing to evacuate the premises.

Remember, friends, that the expansion of a great empire cannot occur ever without conflict. It happened in another dimension (known as the real world) and it is bound to happen in our dimension.

In other news, Egypt has completed its newest grand wonder: Leonardo's Workshop. Egyptian people celebrate with the knowledge that this will ensure their militaristic and economic competence for the next millenium or so.

Egypt is also pleased to announce officially the creation of the UNAA. The United Nations of Africa and Asia was established during this game. It is a fully democratic alliance and currently contains three members: Japan, represented by Berzerker, China represented by Frank Johnson, and Egypt, represented by J23SE. The UNAA will shortly decide whether to allow the Libertarians and Vikings to join.

Long Live the Egyptian Empire!

-Consul (Pharaoh) J23SE

Curumbor Elendil · May 19, 2000, 20:46

This session was very short due to the emergency departure of one player. Relations among world powers remained friendly, with the most competition existing over building Wonders. Nevertheless, rumors have flown about which empire will backstab which--doubtless due to the overlapping nature of the alliance system and growing competition for the few virgin lands left in the world.

In response to the question of one player, a clarification of the declaration of war rule is in order. If a player declares war on you on his turn, as he must one turn before attacking, you have the right to launch a preemptive attack before he attacks you--since you are officially at war. This will hopefully discourage indiscriminate conquest.

The Libertarian Consul would like to take this time to announce a new tariff policy: caravans coming from unallied civilizations will be subject to a 25% tariff--e.g., if you get 36 gold from a caravan going to one of my cities, you must gift me 9. If this policy is ignored, the punishment shall be the bribery or killing of any of the offender's caravans that come within Libertarian territory afterwards. At this point the tariff policy applies only to the Egyptians, the only civilization with whom the Libertarians are not allied.

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

May 26, 2000, 01:52

Argh! The once happy Japanese people have become the victims of tyranny - a massive deception at the hands of none other than Sun Tzu himself. We've lost our magnificent capitol housing the Hanging Gardens, Oracle, and Shakespeare's Theater - for now

My allies, the Egyptians have fallen to a similar fate at the hands of my other 'ally' (giving new meaning to the word), the Libertarians (oh the irony) - losing their capitol. This Day of Infamy will be forever remembered in the annals of history...

My people have become the greatest empire in the New World as we try to hang on in the Old World - small consolation.

Curumbor Elendil · May 26, 2000, 02:03

It had waited for hundreds of years. For hundreds of years the Libertarian Consuls had passed down to their successors the secret plans for a future invasion of the ripe Egyptian lands. The Egyptians had expressed a measure of hostility toward the Libertarians in the past, and their securing of several key wonders had further irritated the Libertarians. Thus, a secret double-cross was planned in coalition with the Chinese Empire. The Chinese would attack the Japanese, and the Libertarians would attack the Egyptians, at the same time. They would support each other with regard to finances and intelligence, though the Chinese would remain friends with the Egyptians and the Libertarians would maintain good relations with the Japanese.

The moment came in 740 AD. The Chinese told the Egyptians that they had had a city secretly bribed by the Libertarians, attempting to induce the Egyptians to declare war on the Libertarians. (In fact the Libertarians and Chinese merely traded cities.) The Egyptians denounced the Libertarians but did not declare war. The Chinese then declared war on the Japanese. The Libertarians pretended to be shocked and appalled and declared war on both the Chinese and Egyptians, their allies.

The Egyptians attempted to placate the Libertarians, but to no avail. Due to the rules of international law, it was not permitted for nations to make sneak attacks. Therefore, the Libertarians and Chinese were forced to wait a full year before they invaded. The invasions themselves were to take almost forty years, given primitive weaponry and transportation.

By 780 AD the Egyptian capital, with its Marco Polo's Embassy and Statue of Liberty, was in Libertarian hands, while the Japanese capital, repository of the Hanging Gardens and Oracle, was conquered by the Chinese.

Here are maps to assist the reader in comprehension. First is the situation before the Libertarian invasion of Egypt; second is after the Libertarian invasion of Egypt.

Before

After

And here are before and after shots of the Chinese invasion.

Before

After

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

Curumbor Elendil · May 26, 2000, 02:13

Just for kicks I am posting a copy of the chatlog, from right before the events leading to war were set in motion, until the end of the night's session. This deception was really so elaborate that it involved trying to be many things to many people at the same time.

I forgot to mention (duh!) that the Libertarians brought their allies the Vikings into the scheme circa 500 AD. The Vikings are having success in demolishing the Egyptian possessions in the British Isles.

Context: I am still trying to persuade Berzerker (Japanese) that I don't know what the Chinese are doing, while also trying to incite the Egyptians (J23SE) to come off as the aggressive party. Once hostilities begin, I pretend to be aggressive toward the Chinese (Jian Fu Lynn). All the while, Jo Jo Zep/Finbar (Vikings) and I maintain close contact.

**begin transcript**
To Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 660): ill fill you in via icq (just seems safer

From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 660): k
From President J23SE (A.D. 660): Whee, I am making the shittiest caravan route EVER
From President J23SE (A.D. 660): You can all be amazed

From President J23SE (A.D. 660): Out of desperation : (
From Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 660): Gold revenue: -15
From President J23SE (A.D. 660): Ahah
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 660): crap crap crap im a fargin idiot. i was trying to disband a city by building settlers, but i left production on wheat, & now its size 2. d'oh!!
From President Berzerker (A.D. 660): lol
From President J23SE (A.D. 680): The only words of deep thought that come to mind at this moment are... Ahahahha =P
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 680): tired?

From President J23SE (A.D. 680): 6 hours straight of working on code
From President J23SE (A.D. 680): anyone who is not tired is my god.
From President J23SE (A.D. 680): After that..
From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 680): trade into Hubli this turn coming
To Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 680): k
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 680): i imagine thats something like working 6 hrs straight on an econometric model.

From President J23SE (A.D. 680): Heh
From President J23SE (A.D. 680): If I knew what that was, I'd probably agree with you

To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 680): just a fancy name for stats

From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 680): I think it's an attractive young woman who parades catwalks who's an Economist and has eschewed the old Imperial measurement scale
To Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 700): sorry, its an itty bitty city ya know

From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 700): no probs, it was heading elsewhere but the elsewhere changed its demands

To Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 700): fin: check icq
From President Berzerker (A.D. 720): god i hope he's not increasing his army - he must 20 crusaders and knights
To President Berzerker (A.D. 720): if hes kept building during this whole period, theres probably nothing either of us could do to stop him from taking whatever he wants. :-P
To President Berzerker (A.D. 720): and he obviously wants to take something!
From President Berzerker (A.D. 720): yes
To Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 720): dangime: wait
To Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 720): fin wants to wait 1 more turn. so we declare war next turn.
From Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 720): k
From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 740): trade into Northern Persia now
To Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 740): ok go ahead
To Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 740): hey thats an improvement

From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 740): yep
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): HM!!!
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Reports indicate that you bribed a city of an ally.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): what is this?
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): What is what?
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): who bribed whom?
From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 740): what?
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): i dont think anybody bribed anybody. are the egyptians stirring up trouble?!
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): The egyptians are only coming to the aid of our allies
From Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): ANNOUCEMENT: This is one turn notice that the empire of China is attacking Japan.
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Our allies have reported cities bribed.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): which allies?
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): China
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Wow.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): by whom?
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): That was unexpected.
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): By YOU

To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): are you declaring war on me egyptians??
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Well, I guess they have a grudge against you
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): its me
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Nay, I am not declaring war at this time
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): well im declaring war on the chinese
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): no dont
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): I strongly disapprove of this conflict though.
To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): why not? preemptive measures are necessary i think
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Libertarian reputation is damaged in my eye.
To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): of course it is foolhardy...
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): if he did not attack you, hes coming after me I think
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): the libertarians give one turn's notice to the aggressive chinese and to their bloodthirsty accomplices the egyptians.
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): I have no part of this conflict.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): what i want to know is why the egyptians havent come to the japanese defence?? methinks the egyptians & chinese have been in cahoots for a long time
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): I have not formally declared war; is this a declaration of war from the bloodthirsty libertarians?
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): I have not known of a Chinese attack on Japan.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): it is a declaration of war. i am obligated by my alliance w/ the japanese to declare war on the chinese, and the egyptians
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): Geez, cant we all just get along

From Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): Thats cause i had to wait >: ) 1 turn
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Ah, and you call the Egyptians bloodthirsty?
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Alliances can be limited.
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): And I choose to limit mine here. I say I am neutral. Any libertarian action taken against the egyptians is aggressive.
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Not defensive.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): ha! theres a reason its called a "permanent strategic alliance." and i havent seen you condemn the chinese aggression
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): good point
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): I condemn your bribing of cities, so far I haven't heard any denial of this. This is why I condemn you.
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): If this is not true, I condemn the Chinese.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): its called a "preemptive strike." berzerker & i have long known about china's planned aggression.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): and china, when we were still on good terms, warned me of your intent to aggress against me, egyptians.
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): dont tell them that

From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Then CHINA LIED!
To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): why not?
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): I never talked of any intent to harm you.
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): Or any other nation, for that matter.
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): because he thinks I'm on his side - if hes been telling me the truth
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): the libertarians mourn the loss of turkmen to the chinese, but rejoice in the liberation of kashmir to its rightful owners
To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): oh crap, i goofed
To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): just tell him you were playing it safe
From Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): only cowards use the almighty dollar! that wont get you far!
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): what did u goof
To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): i goofed by saying you & i knew about chinas planned aggression i guess
To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): but it doesnt matter now i suppose
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): I know
From President J23SE (A.D. 740): The egyptians proclaim again that we are completely neutral in this conflict
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): they might not have caught it - try not doing it again

To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): ok

From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): I'll just tell them you warned me about his building armies
To Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): chinese: caravan into balkans right now. can you max trade for me?
To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): sounds good
From Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): done
To Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): thx
From Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 740): only improved 1 with all the corruption
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): I still believe he is coming after me too
To President Berzerker (A.D. 740): well he gave you 1 turns notice! id say so
From President Berzerker (A.D. 740): yes
From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 760): NOTICE: In support of its loyal and generous ally, The Libertarians, the Falcons hereby announce a declaration of war against the Egyptians
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): the libertarians welcome the support of the vikings in this important endeavor
From President Berzerker (A.D. 760): so much for a diplomacy game - a world at war
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): The Egyptians condemn all of the actions of the Vikings and the Libertarians. The Egyptians have proclaimed neutrality. This is viewed as an act of unprovoked aggression towards the Egyptians.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): at whiles the long-run interest of peace is best served by a short and disciplined conflict.
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): Not when you attack neutral nations for no reason.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): dont pretend to be neutral; youve played your brinksmanship too long, with your retaliatory gestures and so on.
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): My retaliatory gestures?
From President Berzerker (A.D. 760): I cant wait to read all the pro-war propaganda in the mp thread
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): You were the one who started that!
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I see through your little mask as if there was no little mask
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): it was a small tariff, designed only for revenue purposes
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): That's really pathetic. No, it was a sign of dislike
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): And I responded with a sign of dislike.
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): But it doesn't warrant war.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): not at all. i even invited you to join me in an alliance once. once you rejected that, for no apparent reason, i started becoming suspicious, & my suspicions have been gradually confirmed.
From President Berzerker (A.D. 760): who said protectionism is a good thing?
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I never rejected
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I said to wait for berz
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): You seem to want to twist words in order to have an excuse to attack
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): i was already allied to the japanese, there was no reason to wait.
From President Berzerker (A.D. 760): hehe, you just caught him in a lie
From President Berzerker (A.D. 760): he said that to China
To President Berzerker (A.D. 760): sure did. i mean, maybe declaring war on him is a big step, but i cant just wait till he rolls over me... :-P
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): Why do you do this?
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I have declared neutrality
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): And do not give me your deceptive reasons. They are really quite easy to see through.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Consul Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): you declare it, but it means nothing. youre allied to the aggressive chinese, youve made aggressive gestures toward me, i have reason to believe you were starting to build an invasion force... i cant just let everyone walk all over me

From President J23SE (A.D. 760): If I cancel my alliance with China, will that satisfy you?
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I proclaim that I will not march any forces into your territory.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): too late. youve already caused me to waste massive resources building an army to defend myself.
From President Berzerker (A.D. 760): he attacked us both
To President Berzerker (A.D. 760): yeah i see he got vlad
To President Berzerker (A.D. 760): can you hold out in your cap?
From President Berzerker (A.D. 760): I think so
To President Berzerker (A.D. 760): cool
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): Hah
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): That sort of thing is easy to see through.
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): Ahh well, if you are bloodthirsty...
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I will remember this forever.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): i know youll probably beat me egyptians, but i have to try.
From Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): HAHAHA
From Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): Bow the the evenitable !
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I am willing to stand back, but because you wish to invade my lands because of your bloodthirsty desires....
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): In light of this new information, I am willing to ally with you, the Libertarians, and face this new aggressor
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): Unless, of course, you are bloodthirsty
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): The vikings I wish to ally with as well.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): i need compensation. give me 3 cities and 3 techs of my choosing.
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): Ha, compensation for what?
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I have wasted money for a defense force as well
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): Do not bullshit me.
From President Berzerker (A.D. 760): The aggressive Chinese will pay for such tyranny
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I have offered an alliance to the Libertarians
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): but they are bloodthirsty
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): and have attacked my cities
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I call on the world to help this neutral nation.
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): In order to accept the alliance, they offered an ultimatum of 3 technologies and 3 cities. This is clearly unacceptable, and it proves they are uncompromising landgrabbing barbarians.
From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 760): move your settler off the square o/s Northern Persia and I'll road it on the way through, otherwise I'll have to detour
To Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 760): ok
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): They have been planning this for quite a while
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): Oh, I have figured it out a long while ago
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): whatever you say.
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): The Chinese and Libertarians are both allied, and out to **** the world.
To Consul Jo Jo Zep, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): since i destroyed his city my crusaders are vulnerable, but only if he can throw lots of crusaders my way (i have a first line of defense)
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): If my capital is taken over
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I die
From President J23SE (A.D. 760): I quit

From President J23SE (A.D. 760): Get a sub for me.... I lost anyway.
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 760): you wont die. you can build a new capital. you still have an enormous empire.
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Well, no, I die in will to live.
From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): I was going to do maps
To Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): yeah lets do it
To Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): keeps saying youre in negs w/ another civ
From Consul Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): cancel and go again, it's a bug
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): I have no interest in playing a game in which I am a mere pawn in the world... In essence I am wussing out. I have better things to do

To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): aw, come on

you are far from a pawn! youre the most powerful empire in the world
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): This is supposed to mimic real life, yes?
To President Berzerker, Consul Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): yes, as much as possible
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Well, in real life Capitals were never held as you surely will hold mine.
From Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): rush buy some steamers
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): of course they are, the assyrians and babylonians repeatedly conquered each other.
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Well, that and I am really *really* anxious to play some Diablo II
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): That wasn't in nationalistic Europe. Those were like tribes
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Tribes, I understand. Nations always retained their capitals
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): what about kuwait? what about eastern europe? france & germany in ww2?
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Exactly
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): France and Germany in WW2
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): But then they got their caps back

From Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): scary he had a fleet of iron clads.....
From Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): but it was too late
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): germany got back their capital only by succumbing to western wishes, france wouldnt have gotten its capital back if germany had won.

From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Well, I have to go anyway. I will continue this game... I dunno for how long
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): ok, well, wed like to have you continue, youve been an integral part of this game
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): and youre a damn good player too
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): then can we save after the host's turn
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Just try not to make too much fun of me on the forums

To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, Mr. Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): of course not. its all in good fun, happens to everyone sometime. in fact, to me more often than i do it to someone else.

From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Well, it's my first diplo game.. expected fighting this scale to come later.
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): so all that time I was warning u and u let me get set up?
To President Berzerker (A.D. 780): well, there was little i could do either way. i did tell you to build walls and prepare for attack. not much else i could do other than give you units, but i need ed those...
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Well, it's my first diplo game.. expected fighting this scale to come later.
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): so all that time I was warning u and u let me get set up?
To President Berzerker (A.D. 780): well, there was little i could do either way. i did tell you to build walls and prepare for attack. not much else i could do other than give you units, but i need ed those...
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Suppose I'm too naive
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): : /
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): i dont know. this game really rewards an element of surprise. we did our damnedest not to let on our plans. even fin didnt know until the beginning of this session.
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): ouch
From Mr. Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): Yeah, but I didn't even know we're almost into a new millennium
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780):

From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Well, I have something over all of you..
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): What is that, you ask?
From Mr. Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): apart from you're shitloads bigger than all of us put together?
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): yes i ask
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): I get to play Diablo II in 15 minutes!!!!

To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): hehe are you a betatester for that? i have a friend whos also a betatester for that game
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Yep
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): cool. do you get paid & stuff?
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): Im prepared to accept the enemy's abosulte surrender
From Mr. Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): mmm and I'll only be furthering my futile attempts to house train the new puppy

To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): no absolute surrenders, cmon, we dont want to eliminate anybody

From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): we've won

To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): no no weve got to keep going to alpha centauri!
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): I'm history before you Egypt
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Heh, I am willing to accept surrender to
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): o
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Diablo II 45% installed... Ooo ooo oooo
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): Ive taken down your ally
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): No, I don't get paid to betatest.. There are so many people who want to play this game *they* would pay Bliz to betatest it
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): yeah thats what i figgered
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): I want to play 1 more turn - a chance to retaliate
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): im willing to do that
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): II really gotta go
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Mom screaming.. as in now

To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): ok, maybe 60 seconds??
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): No
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): I don't have 1g
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): no
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): I lost : (
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): I thot u were goin to play diablo?
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Can't
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): trade me the city with GW !
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): it's 12:11
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): AM
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): so the city survives
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Parents pissed... Maybe I skip school tommorrow =P
To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): ok chinese
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): I'm a psycho.
From President J23SE (A.D. 780): Talk to you guys later.
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, President J23SE, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): ok see ya
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): check and mate
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): bye
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): ill finish my turn and save
From Mr. Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): mmmmmmmmmm
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): please do
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): I'm not giving up
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): cool
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): although I do believe he is gone for good
From Mr. Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): I think he is too
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): im afraid so
From Mr. Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): pity
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): that will be one heinous ai
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): but i guess well have to deal
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): lol, it'll probably attack me in S Africa
To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): ps. chinese, thats a very nice city.

so take care of it & maybe return it in 2 turns? after you rushbuild walls...
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): hes gonna try and bribe it.....so I need to take a collection
From Mr. Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): I'd crank up now Bez

To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): lol ok
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): anyone have some spare cash?
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): I have nothing to crank up
To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): you just have to return 170 of that. i dont think i ever gave you back 30 that i borrowed last time
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): allrighty its good 'n' saved
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): thats fine.....might be after the war

From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): have nightmares u2
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): heheh

To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): lol thanks!
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): no hard feelings
From Mr. Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): next week? same time?
From President Berzerker (A.D. 780): yup
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): yeah next week same time. maybe we can start afresh? nonagg pacts, and so forth?
To President Berzerker, Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): well hash it out in apolyton
From Mr. Jo Jo Zep (A.D. 780): k afternoon/night all
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): no I think hes fighting

From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): he thinks he can bribe it back
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): do you have an embassy ?
To Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): maybe when he realizes its hopeless hell cave

To Mr. Jo Jo Zep, King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): i do now, just got marcos
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): how much gold does it have
To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): 211
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): not enough more than likely
To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): theres no way hes bribing, unless he sells mucho improvements
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): size 3 city......661 defending gold
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): his government should have fallen
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): and he should have lost 1000 gold
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): to move his capital or have his empire split
To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): maybe he didnt have 1000
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): then he should have split
To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): yeah, hes got no capital
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): or gone to anarachy
To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): i dont think it splits every time
To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): the egyptians didnt split either
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): ok well it worked
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780):

To King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): well this was a damnably good session of civ, if i do say so myself. one for the ages.
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): best yet
From King Jian Fu Lynn (A.D. 780): heheh
**end transcript**

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

[This message has been edited by Curumbor Elendil (edited May 26, 2000).]

Frank Johnson · May 26, 2000, 02:22

I followed every rule there was in this game. I mad an announcement 1 turn before I attacked as the rules required that I intended to fight Japan. Just because I had Japan turned in so many circles it believed that I would not attack isn't my fault at all. They fell for a ruse, which was key in my attack, had Berz had time to sic his ironclad fleets on met that would have been the end of my poor crusaders.

In anycase, in a brilliant attack, I captured 2 Japanese cities on the way to his capital with a force consisting of about 12 crusaders , 6 knights, 3 diplos and 1 pikeman. I belive I lose 5 or 6 crusaders, 1 knight, and thats it. Meanwhile, my ally the Indians crushed the Egpytian forces and occupied their capital.

Thus, players ranked 3rd and 4th, RUTHLESSLY SMASHED AND OCCUPIED the capitals of the 1st and 2nd ranked players, and with them the happiness wonder we had been denied.

I now the enemy is left with only one despriate course of action. I doubt he will suceed. However, even if he does, his defeat is only a matter of time at this point. Near pennyless, and after the attempt of bribery he can only be more so, after selling all his improvements to raise funds for the attempt, his civ will be weakened too much. The attack force he gets in the city if successful will just have to fight my ironclads and veteran forces behind walls futher behind. And this is IF he suceeded. Basicly it looks very bad for the Japanese right now. I will be swift, and punish those who do not see the wisdom in surrendering now. Your government officals are my slaves. Your house is now a barracks for my men

And your technology now equips the Chinese forces. General Sun Tzu has served me well

Jian Fu Lynn
Da Wang Zhong Guo
Big Emperor of China
Long Live the Middle Kingdom
Glory to our men at arms! Strongest in the world!

CapTVK · May 26, 2000, 03:46

While the Chinese were clearing out the last few pockets of resistance in the former Japanese capital. An Englishman with a funny hat and carrying a strange device on a tripod is seen running from one place to another. When he sees Chinese forces raising the flag on the ruins of the looted capital he quickly sets up his tripod, covers the device with a dark cloth and appears to look through it. He fumbles with it for a few minutes and then mutters: "Excellent excellent, this is the best picture yet! The NET once again has the first scoop!

He repeats the action a few times from roughly the same location and quickly collects his gear and rushes off when soldiers start noticing him.

He quickly dissappears into the chaos muttering phrases like: "Chinese capture Japanese capital!....no, that doesn't have the right kick to it" and "Maybe...Japan totally defeated by brilliant Chinese General..., yeah that's it that's it!

Frank Johnson · May 26, 2000, 09:10

Thank you!

I had the harder time of the two invasions, Berz had serveral units garisoned in each of cities I captured, all with walls and to top it off Berz had his Ironclad fleet secertly in the area. I think the best part was that even though Berz had his suspions I still managed to win.

Yes ths was a quite exciting operation....best action in a diplo game, and you have to admit, it was very well planned.

Curumbor Elendil · May 26, 2000, 10:37

I think even Berz and J23 will one day admit that this was fun.

I meant to post this last night, but the site was not responding:

Two issues: we need to restore equilibrium in the world, once the Japanese counterattack is over, & we have some definite result. The Japanese still have by far the most population of any civ (I know because I have Marco's). It won't take long to build a palace and get things started again. So I'd like for the Japs and Chinese to work on getting a truly permanent peace treaty together sometime soon. With regard to the Egyptians, I plan to take one more city, the one with Michelangelo's (23 Inc Dam). After that I would be willing to sign a peace treaty with the Egyptians and disband my army. The Vikings will probably take a couple more overseas cities. After that, the Egyptians remain in a good position, with the most cities of any civilization in the world. After building a palace they'll be right back in the thick of things. So I'd like to get normalized relations between them and the rest of the world ASAP as well.

Finally, I do hope you stay with us, J. If you do choose to retire permanently, we would be looking for a sub for the Egyptians. I know the situation doesn't sound the most promising in the world, but it's not disastrous either.

------------------
Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

Curumbor Elendil · May 26, 2000, 10:41

There's a little snafu I just recalled this morning. According to the rules I laid out at the beginning of the game, wonder sharing is not allowed. I gave you New Delhi, Dangime, so you could have Great Wall. So we have two options if we're not to break the rules: either you can give back New Delhi before it affects the game at all, or you can keep New Delhi permanently.

I was thinking about the latter option, if you think you really need walls to withstand Berz's counterattack. I had promised to give you 23 Inc. Dam in return for your military aid. Maybe we can make a permanent trade: you get New Delhi, I get Dam? But it would certainly be weird to have one of your cities right in my heartland, next to my capital, and if you prefer to retain Dam we can just take the first option.

------------------
Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

Frank Johnson · May 26, 2000, 11:44

I think the Japanese should come to the peace tables. Drawing out the war any longer is pointless. Egypt has all but folded and he would have to face the combined power of India and China, even if he successfully bribed his city back.

I will return GW, as I have no need for it, Berz can only bribe back into that city. If he chooses to draw out the war by bribing the city, I will have to be much more harsh with him latter. I control the seas now and it is only a matter of time untill the city falls again, and he will find defenses in China, much more prepared for offenseive forces than even he was.

Thus...I ask that Berz come to the peace tables. As is now, no more of your empire need be put to the sword, however if you resist futher I have no choice but to continue with a war in which the final result is already determined, it is a war you cannot win, so why not cut your losses Berz?

Curumbor Elendil · May 29, 2000, 11:40

Via ICQ, the hopeless ruler of the Egyptians has informed me, Murray N. Rothbard, that he will "fight to the death" if his former palace and its city are not returned to him (notwithstanding that the Libertarians have gleefully razed his palace to the ground). The Libertarians have even offered to pay for the construction of a new palace for the Egyptian President. This offer was strongly rebuffed. The Libertarians are more than ready for a no-holds-barred war, but King Murray believes that such a conflict could only end for the worse for the Egyptians.

------------------
Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

Curumbor Elendil · May 29, 2000, 20:05

P.S. This of course means that the Egyptians will be continuing, thankfully.

The Libertarians have notified the Egyptians that they will return their former capital in exchange for 2000 gold and all Egyptian cities outside Africa. So far this offer has not been accepted.

------------------
Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989