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Old May 30, 2000, 02:30   #61
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This makes Fiji look like Disneyland.

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Old June 5, 2000, 16:22   #62
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A PROCLAMATION

From the Court of Rightful King and Sovereign of the Libertarian Empire, Murray LXXXVIII

[currently in hiding due to riots in the streets of the capital]

As the city of 23 Dam, Inc. wast bestowed upon our gracious allies the Chinese as their sovereign property with all the rights pertaining thereto, the Libertarian Empire doth announce their utter and thorough neutrality as touching any arrangement for the transfer of said city which the Chinese should arrange. Notwithstanding this position, His Royal Highness doth wish to announce that the arrangement negotiated by the Chinese in no way constraineth the policy of the Libertarian Empire; therefore, it behooveth the Egyptians to seek forthwith a separate accommodation with the Libertarian Realm. His Serene Majesty is amenable to an immediate cessation of hostilities and, providing a grace period during which trust might be re-established, an eventual peace treaty, with no concessions from either side. We await the Egyptian response.

Signed,

Ayn Rand
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Old June 6, 2000, 00:49   #63
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Peace has been reached between the Empire of China, the Democratic Republic of Japan, and the Democractic Republic of Egypt.

As you may or not know, the Grand Libertarian Army is currently under contract to capture and provide the city of J23 Dam to the Chinese Empire, in return for China's generous military aid during preparations for the war. The city was certain to be capurted as the overwhelming Indian army has already flooded into Egyptian territory. Egypt, seeking to retain their great city, and not to mention mikes, came looking for a deal.

But I highly valued the city I was promised. But there were also things I wanted they could provide, so finally a deal was reached.

I valued the city containing mikes at 5000 gold peices. I also valued the troops I gave to India at 600 gold pieces. Thus I demanded the sum of 5600 gold orginally.....however I offered that the sum might be reduced to 3600 gold if they could provide me with peace with Japan and assurances they would not attack Japan's former capital which also contained serveral key wonders already in my hands, so I could avoid being a "happiness wonder hog". China was willing to work to avoid that label, and an agreement has been made that consolidates China's current wonders, while providing proper compensation for Mikes, which I could have chosen to possess.

As a result of the Agreement the following was agreed to:

Egpyt will owes the sum of 3600 gold to the Empire of China.

700 gold will be reducted from the total at which time the Egyptain allies, Japan, cedes the Province of Northern Japan to China.

Egypt will reemberse Japan in the form of 700 gold for the loss of Northern Japan.

Egypt will pay the remainder of the sum, 2900 gold in either currency of gold, or territories of subject to my approval at the rate of 75 gold per population point, plus half the selling price of improvements and 25 gold per garrisooning unit or settler.

Jian Fu Lynn
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Long Live the Middle Kingdom
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Frank Johnson (edited June 05, 2000).]</font>
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Old June 7, 2000, 22:52   #64
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I wont be resuming this game until 8:30 pm central since I am joining Dip VIII's opening session from 7-8:30-9 pm central. Playing these two should not create an on-going conflict after tomorrow since dip 8 does not have a set schedule.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by berzerker (edited June 08, 2000).]</font>
 
Old June 9, 2000, 08:57   #65
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This was a very bizarre session, but before I give my report I need to make a ruling on whether the results of the session need to be cancelled out.

Thus, for those of you in the game, this is what I did. I loaded mu_a780.net, the game which we loaded when we started last session. I set player as Chinese, clicked Revolution, and was able to choose Democracy right away. This is something I had never known about before and will definitely use in the future (unless it comes to be viewed as a bug damaging to realistic gameplay). I then set player to Japanese and was unable to bribe his city.

Then I loaded mu_a780b.net, which was the saved game right before I ended my turn, and supposedly right after Dangime went into revolution. Marco Polo's showed him to be in monarchy. I switched players to Chinese, I was in monarchy. Cities had production that a monarchy would have.

This is what I think happened: Dangime did switch to Democracy, having just discovered that he could do so (obviously he didn't know this beforehand, otherwise he wouldn't have given me those units). But because of lag, the switch wasn't registered by the Japanese' turn, who were next. It then registered by the time the Chinese' turn came around, and they went into anarchy because of civil disorder.

My ruling is therefore: the Chinese are within their rights to demand that we restart the mu_a780.net game, with protection from the bribery of Sakhalin. If the Chinese decline their right to a restart, the Japanese are within their rights to demand a restart as well, since when they were booted right before their turn a turn later, we did not follow the usual policy of reloading the save. The AI put the Japs into anarchy, and that allowed me to bribe one of their cities. So the Japanese also have a right to demand that we restart the mu_a780.net save. However, I don't think it would be in their interests to do so, given what the state of the Chinese army would be like.

If both the Chinese and Japanese decline their rights to a restart, we will continue where we left off with the last session, which was indeed long, fruitful, and eventful. Please post your decisions here.

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Old June 9, 2000, 13:08   #66
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This problem is a good one to open up for debate in the forum (not your ruling, but this occurence). I believe what happened is that Dangime was in Monarchy for his attack turn - he went into Democracy when we returned to the game or at the end of his attack turn. But I get a turn before his democracy kicks in - he was not in democracy when I retaliated because switching has no effect until his next turn begins. I've gone into revolution at the end of my movement and have nothing happen until the beginning of my NEXT turn. The form of government Dangime was under when I retaliated is the same government he was under when he attacked on his turn - to be under democracy, you must be under democracy at the beginning of your turn. If he attacked under Monarchy, he stays under Monarchy until the beginning of his next turn even if he switched governments to democracy at the end of his attack turn.
You cannot move your units under one form of government and switch to a new form of government before the next turn begins...
 
Old June 9, 2000, 13:34   #67
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Actually, Berz, I think you can. That's what happened when I recreated it. Otherwise, how do you explain his having some of the benefits/consequences of democracy but not others? His civ got thrown into anarchy because of civil disorder two turns in a row--this only happens with democracies. Now, I've seen things like this happen--because of lag a sudden change only goes through "partially." For example, the disband after bribery trick is of this sort. Also, once I had an opponent who disbanded a unit to put shields onto an improvement so that I wouldn't sabotage his city walls, but the city wall sabotage happened anyway (even though walls are supposed to be the last thing to go). It must not have registered on my computer that he had shields on another improvement.

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Old June 10, 2000, 00:53   #68
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Well I decline my right. Despite losing 5-8 units in the mayham, I believe only a few additional cities could have been taken if I had my entire army, and is they are now, they would be mainly obsolite.

Situations have stabilized, and my veteran units will have the advantage in a sustained war, so thats it. I'm fine with as is, but if Berz wants me to take a few more cities thats fine with me too.

I'm sorry for claiming tha Berz was cheating. That was not the case, but apparently there was something that was wrong. I believe the losses I took are worse than the losses berz took, so I think this is still in his favor.
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Old June 10, 2000, 07:29   #69
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[What is this I hear about alternative universes in which there are public newspapers by 1000 BC? This seemeth to me passing strange...]

THE CHRONICLE OF ULFIAS,
Monk of Kathmandu Minor, State of Kathmandu,
Confederate States of Libertaria

Of the Libertarian Civilization, 780 Anno Domini until 1020 Anno Domini

In the eighth century our nation departed grievously from the ways of our forefathers. Forsaking the principles of tolerance, freedom, and justice, the Libertarian King ordered an invasion of Arabia and Egypt on a pretense. By 780 Cairo was a "Libertarian" territory, whether it wished to be or no.

For a brief time we turned away from our misdeeds. In Karachi the king was toppled and exiled. In its place a confederacy of sovereign States arose, with numerous provisions for local sovereignty. Our presidents signed treaties with our former enemies, the Egyptians; especially after the election of President Common Terry in 796 the Egyptians abandoned their hostility.

But all was not well. In a twist of fate, our allies the Chinese attempted to install a president, but though the economy thrived, the president revealed himself to be despicable and evil: though he managed to get reelected because of the economy, no one trusted him, and patriotism waned. Thus, the Japanese were able to induce the newly conquered territories of Sakhalin and Vladivostok back into the fold.

After this devastating event, the autocratic and despised president was overthrown, and freelance pirates returned to sack Vladivostok and Sakhalin, eventually setting up their own "government" in the name of the Chinese. It would be several decades before order and unity were restored to the Chinese civilization.

After the sudden deposal of President Common Terry by the Egyptians (and the election of Ahmed Illfare in his place) the Egyptians moved into a Republic and made hostile moves towards the Libertarians. Eventually, the Libertarians and Chinese together declared war on the Egyptians, and the regions of Aswan (formerly 23 Dam Inc.) and Tripoli were seized by marauding Libertarian hordes.

In Aswan was located the Leonardo da Vinci Institute, an engineering university of world renown. After receiving the secret of gunpowder from the Chinese, these engineers were able to outfit our companies around the world with newly designed "muskets," weapons that allow one to kill enemies from afar.

The Libertarian Confederacy also made advances in the American continents, after a declaration of war against the Japanese (mostly an act of solidarity with the Chinese, but also because, so they claim, the Japanese had bribed Libertarian armies before). The governor of Denver defected to Libertarian control for a large sum of money, and the city-state of Seattle was seized in a battle that combined Chinese seapower and a brave invasion by Libertarian knights. However, 'tis true that the young city of Rio de Janeiro was sacked and burnt to the ground, the inhabitants that were not killed fleeing into the Amazon wilds.

The world now stands in a state of world war, the Chinese-Libertarian alliance seemingly having the upper hand over the Egyptian-Japanese alliance. The Vikings have remained largely aloof, although they have been technically at war with the Japanese for centuries.

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Old June 10, 2000, 08:40   #70
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State of the world 1020 AD: brown=Finbar/Vikings; grey=Berzerker/Japanese; purple=Elendil/Indians; yellow=J23/Egyptians; light blue=Dangime/Chinese; green=unclaimed/disputed.



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Old June 10, 2000, 08:50   #71
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A TREATY TO END ALL WARS

A Proposal from President Albert Jay Nock of the Libertarian Confederal Republic

In the interests of putting an end to all jealousies, violent ambitions, and mistrust, the Libertarians propose a reordering of the world's boundaries, to wit:

--After five turns, Egypt receives the coveted Aswan from the Libertarians

--The Libertarians receive More Pond Scum, Pond Scum, Expansion Ball, South Baikal, West Baikal, Pheasant Forest, Arctic Circle, Arctic East, and Great-White-N from the Japanese. The Libertarians retain Tripoli.

--The Japanese receive Seattle, Denver, Billings, San Francisco, Recife, and 1000 gold from the Libertarians, and @end, Mallawi, Gebel Adda, Bubastis, Port Said, El Dakka, Polo Grounds, and Fish Export from the Egyptians.

--The Chinese receive Chita and Steppes-on-Wine from the Japanese and Money Monitors and Stock Exchange from the Egyptians.

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Old June 10, 2000, 09:52   #72
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Where's Murray? What happened to Murray Rothbard? Out doing lunch?

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Old June 10, 2000, 17:19   #73
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Murray got purged from the movement, didn't you hear?

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Old June 10, 2000, 20:44   #74
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Chee. Just when a cute little Libertarian popsie had started a Murray Rothbard Fan Club. What to do with 1.5 million autographed photos, the Murray Rothbard line of gum, coffee mugs, lunch boxes and dental prostheses?

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Old June 11, 2000, 18:10   #75
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Guess they go into the delete bin along with all those Slaughter CDs.

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Old June 16, 2000, 00:44   #76
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World Peace is achieved in Diplo V. The series of event is as follows.

The Libertarians/Indian strike a deal with the Japanese for peace. India swaps all its New World colonies for 2 key Japanese cities in the Chinese/Japanese Russian Far East warzone and other Japanese possesssions.

China seeks to sell its rights to Aswan, the captured Egyptian city containing leos and mikes. China bought the rights for this city with 600 gold worth of units from India. China offers to sell Aswan to India for 4 large cities, 2 of which are rescently obtained from Japan. India accepts, but adds the requirement of peace between Japan and China. China expresses concreans over the on remaining Japanese holding in far northeast Russia, and agrees to accept if Japan surrenders tihs territory.

Japan surrenders the territory, China swaps the rights to Aswan for the 4 large cities and China and All other powers sign peace.

Thus the world situation is like this.

Japan is left with a highly developed, but small chunk of 5-6 cities in Siberia and a huge but sparcely populated region in North and South America.

The Vikings, changing little, control the Northern European mainland and almost all of Russia up to the Urals, with colonies in New England and Eastern Canada.

Egypt, weakened from war with India still commands huge ammounts of territory with scores of moderately sized cities in the Southern Arabian Penisula, Africa, excluding Egypt, England, Iceland, the North Sea Islands, and Greenland.

India has expanded signifigantly with its addition of Judea and Egpyt regions, rich with powerful wonders. They also control the highly populated Indian subcontient, the Middle East, Asia Minor, the Caucuses, the Aral and Caspian Sea regions, Western Siberia, and outposts in Southern Austrailia and Indonesia. However as terms of peace with Japan they survendered all their New World posessions.

China has made signifigant military gains. We now control China, Mongolia, parts of Central Asia, Eastern Siberia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, Southern Europe, Indo-China, Java, Celebes and Borneo, Northern Austrialia, with additional plans for settlement of New Guinea, and a outpost in the Urals. China also possess the largest and best trained modern army in the world, and the largest and best trained modern navy with 8 Ironclad warships protecting the huge Chinese coastline. China also has the largest population, economy, and production in the world.

Jian Fu Lynn
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Long live the Middle Kingdom
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Old June 16, 2000, 11:13   #77
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Returned from Exile!

After approximately 700 years in exile, the royal family has returned to Karachi, but only as figureheads. Murray P. Rothbard, a scion of the royal family, won election as Prime Minister in 1180. This election was just the fifth of a civilization united into one nation. For hundreds of years, the Libertarian civilization was divided into several independent nations: Siberia, Arabia (into which the formerly Egyptian provinces were integrated as colonial dependencies), India, and Mongolia, with several colonial possessions overseas belonging mostly to India. However, in 1160 a Treaty of Union was enacted following the election of the Mongolian Chinese party in Mongolia, defeating the Mongolian Libertarian coalition. The Mongolian Chinese party declared that Libertarian minority rule in the area was over, and withdrew the nation from the Libertarian Confederacy in exchange for an alternative arrangement with nearby territories under Chinese governance.

With the loss of colonial territories and the nation of Mongolia, and a peace treaty with the Egyptians recognizing Cairo and Aswan as integral parts of the territory of the State of Arabia, the several States of the Libertarian civilization decided to draw up a constitution enacting a federal government, to be headquartered centrally, in the city of Karachi, capital of the Karachi District in the State of India.

Thus, the first federal elections were held in 1160. The Libertarian Peace party, the governing party in most of the states since the overthrow of the monarchy, won the first four elections, particularly due to its strength in the Egyptian areas.

However, the Libertarian Conservative party, formerly known as the Libertarian Monarchists, benefited from reaction against the pacific and toadying policies of the Peace Prime Minister, Mahatma Gandhi, and swept to power in a nationalistic fervor. The new Prime Minister welcomed back the monarchy, and the new queen Maya I of the Rothbard dynasty. The new Prime Minister also began to seek out better relations with the Egyptian and Japanese blocs in order to counterweight the enormous might of the Chinese Empire.

In 1184 the Libertarian Parliament took the dramatic move of abolishing the several states and imposing a pure system of proportional representation, in hopes of breaking up the Peace party coalition. Indeed, this worked in the Egyptian areas, where small parties such as the Egyptian National party, advocating secession for Cairo and Aswan, and the Mis'r Jihad, a virulently anti-Libertarian party that advocated reattachment to the Egyptian Empire, took seats in the 1185 election that would normally have gone to the Peace party.

However, the Conservative party, commonly known as the Tories, were not unscathed. The "True Libertarian" party, which advocated free-market economics *and* peace, thus considering itself between the Peace party and the Tories, arose suddenly and won 15% of the vote, doing particularly well in Siberia and the Caucasus and Volga regions, where trade with Vikings, Chinese, and Japanese were particularly important. The True Libertarians came to be known as the Whigs. They were led by Anarchist Rothbard, a radical libertarian Libertarian who was a cousin of Queen Maya and argued that the Rothbard Dynasty had for hundreds of years forsaken the original voluntaryist, individualist, and noninterventionist policies that, in fact, had defined the Libertarian race from its inception. "You may as well adopt the 'Indian' label by which the foreigners call us, you have forsaken Libertarianism altogether!" he famously jeered at the Prime Minister during an 1186 sitting of Parliament. The Whigs advocated friendly policies with all empires, even the Chinese now mistrusted by the Tories (even after hundreds of years of cooperation between the two).

The unification of Libertaria (as it is often called) has thus brought anything but peace and harmony. We shall see what the future holds.

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Old June 16, 2000, 20:48   #78
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***On Main Street, Karachi, capital of Libertaria, in the backroom of the Virgin MegaStore, a popsie heaves a sigh of relief. Reaching into the Deleted Bin, she tosses aside Slaughter CD after Slaughter CD ... to uncover the 1.5 million Murray Rothbard autographed photos, and the Murray Rothbard line of gum, coffee mugs, lunch boxes and dental prostheses. "Murray's come back to me", she breathes silkily. "Now ... ", she continues even more silkily, "how to break the news to him that I'm carrying his baby?"***

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Old June 17, 2000, 08:00   #79
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SCANDAL IN THE SENATE!

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Old June 17, 2000, 08:59   #80
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E! NEWS HEADLINES:

ROTHBARD IN UNSAVORY CIGAR ALLEGATION - POPSIE TELLS ALL

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Old June 17, 2000, 09:43   #81
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60 MINUTES EXCLUSIVE:

ROTHBARD DENIES POPSIE LEFT STAINS ON HIS DRESS

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Old June 17, 2000, 14:41   #82
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Oh my Lord...

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Old June 17, 2000, 20:23   #83
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"CIGAR" MAGAZINE EXCLUSIVE:

"LONG AND SLIM DOES IT FOR ME" - ROTHBARD

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Old June 24, 2000, 10:56   #84
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Following the scandal in the House of Deputies regarding the behavior of Murray Rothbard, the Tory Party fell apart into a myriad of smaller parties. The Whigs formed a minority government and pushed through a series of governmental reforms following popular revulsion at the state of the monarchy and the royal family. The monarchy was again abolished and so was the House of Lords.

In 1195, however, one of the successor parties to the Tories won a plurality of seats in the House and formed a coalition government. That party was the Philosophical Party, which advocated minor deviations from Libertarian principles when circumstances demanded. The new Prime Minister was Robert Nozick. This government was to prove a dynasty.

As the Federal Republic of Libertaria (F.R.L.) began to prosper, the fortunes of the Philosophical Party continued to wax. The government enjoyed an enormous surplus for hundreds of years, and the Philosophical Party was reelected an unprecedented fifty times. They thus governed the country, alone for most of those years, for 250 years. Robert Nozick VIII lost the Prime Ministership in 1445. Following the industrialization of the country, the Philosophicals had been pressured to extend the suffrage, and eventually a socialist Antilibertarian Party arose, led by J.M. Keynes, and finally won a majority of the seats in 1445.

But the glorious legacy of the Philosophical Party could not be undone: the FRL now boasted the Adam Smith's Trading Center, Isaac Newton's College, and the Hoover Dam was built by a Philosophical government late in the 15th century. Of course, a Great Depression soon swallowed the world, Herbert Hoover was booted out of government, and the Antilibertarian Party returned to power.

In the year 1520, the first female Prime Minister, Rose Wilder Thornton, won election at the head of the Libertarian Renaissance Party, a combination of the Philosophical Party and the old Peace Party (Whigs). We shall see what will come of this new government.

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Old June 26, 2000, 09:39   #85
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For interested onlookers, a few pertinent facts about this game:



Libertarians not doing so well here.



My Mini Science City in Karachi is to be noted.







I might build Eiffel and Darwin's just to achieve Manifest Destiny.



The major incidents of the game: the sudden collapse of the Romans and Carthaginians, the world war, my surrender of four key cities to the Chinese in exchange for Aswan, are all clearly marked here.

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Old July 6, 2000, 00:27   #86
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Old July 21, 2000, 10:24   #87
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We finally got to play another session and booming populations and trade was the name of the game. Populations world wide made large increases, while freight and caravans from various civs traveled the world, and many crossed the great Indian - Chinese Rail Exchange in Indo-China. Banks and aquaducts were primary building goals and new veteran apline troops have been started to replace the old, ut well trained musketeer force in China.
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Old July 21, 2000, 11:49   #88
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DAMASCUS POST-RECORDER

January 15, 1710

"Origin of the Species" Creates Uproar

Professor Charles Darwin's new book, based on his travels in New Zealand, home to many strange species of beasts, has provoked a furor throughout the Indian Empire. The new theory of evolution is viewed by some as a potential threat to the renowned religiosity of the Indian people, who of course elaborated theological theories of monotheism before other civilizations. [The newspaper conveniently omits the fact that the sages of Cairo who first discovered monotheism at that time considered themselves Egyptians.] We do not doubt that Darwinism will have malign consequences for the social order: this era has been a tumultuous one, with Industrialization proceeding rapidly and Communist agitation having gathered force over the years. The editors yearn for the seventeenth century, when Neerian [the Indian equivalent of Victorian] rules of good taste and political freedom combined to give us a stable, happy society.

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After the ouster of Neera Shivakumar's Indian Party by the Socialist Party, Indian elites expressed concern that a Marxist revolution was around the corner. But the Socialist coalition was shortlived, after the Liberal Party pulled out. The Liberals signed a new coalition deal with the Indian Party in 1710, and the first Liberal Prime Minister, Jason "Lloyd" George, took power. The Indian Party came to call themselves the "Conservatives," though once on a time they were considered the radicals, when they were fighting the Libertarians.

A diehard Libertarian faction remained, some of them joining the Indian/Conservative Party, some of them maintaining the tiny old Libertarian Party and yearning for the days when the word "Indian" meant "Libertarian," and the Indians were renowned for their love of freedom. There was within the Libertarian Party a Monarchist faction, known as the Rothbardies. They called for the return of the royal family in a constitutional monarchy. But the Rothbardies were a tiny faction and without influence.

Throughout the first half of the 18th century the welfare state advanced, and the Libertarian Party virtually died out, while the Conservatives became more and more imperialistic, thus seeking to gain the votes of the working class through patriotism rather than through minimal-state economic policy. Some of the Libertarians within the Conservative Party fled to the Liberals, but the Liberals were meanwhile becoming more socialistic, to prevent losing votes to the Socialist Party on the far left. The strategy did not work, however, for in 1744 a depression engulfed the Indian nations due to a lack of recent trade. The Socialists swept to power in elections in 1745. Now, in 1752, it is unclear what the future course of the Indian civilization will be. The world is in a state of flux: large agricultural surpluses have allowed population to grow exponentially, but there is an increasing demand for consumer luxuries, and following the decline of religion and traditional social mores, people are without a compass in the world. Still, the idealists claim that they can build a new world "of the common man," and that economic planning by the state can solve all problems of justice and efficiency. We shall see.

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Old July 21, 2000, 11:55   #89
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I notice a gap in history here which might leave readers puzzled. Between 1520 and 1660, the Libertarian Renaissance Party disappeared, the Antilibertarian Party split into the Indian Party (led by Prime Minister Neera Shivakumar [hence "Neerian"], who governed twenty years, from 1620-1640) and the Labour Party (known as the Socialist Party in some parts of the country). The Indian Party, as told, later became the Conservatives. The Libertarian Renaissance Party became the Liberal Party, but the Liberals rapidly became enthusiasts of the fledgling welfare state.

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<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Curumbor Elendil (edited July 21, 2000).]</font>
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Old July 28, 2000, 09:28   #90
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HISTORY OF THE LIBERTARIAN AND INDIAN CIVILIZATIONS

Chapter XI, 1750-1770

The Socialist-Labour Parliament enacted many welfare-state measures during their tenure in office, 1745-1760. However, the Conservatives returned in force with a 1760 election victory. They immediately lowered taxes in an attempt to stimulate technological discovery.

Technological discovery has indeed proceeded apace during the last twenty years, especially under the Conservatives. Combustion, Automobile, and Mass Production have all aided the industrialization of our civilization, though for the first time pollution has become something of a problem.

The Indian Parliament watches with growing concern the enormous sums their Chinese allies are spending on military research. Intelligence reveals that they have discovered the secrets of Atomic Theory and Mobile Warfare, and will soon possess knowledge of Amphibious Warfare. In response, the Conservatives passed an election-year resolution, in 1770, to recruit more soldiers on skis for the Indochinese jungle and other vulnerable areas.

The Indian civilization continues to expand to new areas. The islands of New Zealand were discovered, and the city of Christchurch founded. Sevastopol and Istanbul have been founded along the Eurasian frontier with the Vikings. The population of the Indians grows less fast than previously, though still rapidly.

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