Tales From the Diplomatic Front V

[Frank Johnson]

The Chinese civilization entered the modern era during the latest session.

To address the Indian concearns, I must remind Indian of the growing distance from China diplomaticly. India who once shared its research during the past few sessions desided it was better to maintain its secrets and horde resources for themselves. For that reason Chinese scientists chose to focus on maintaining military superiority so they we could not be caught at a disadvantage. The Chinese Military currently contains about 40 veteran Musketeer, who fight about as well as your average apline troop and 45 veteran apline troops whose defensive abilities are unsurpassed in the world. India has had no lack of military build up. They were the first to begin fortifying their boarder and began to interfere with diplomatic concearns between China and other nations. They also desided to turn down tech exchanges when offered by the Chinese people, despite all this the Chinese army does not contain a single offensive unit. China was also concearned that its fleet of ironclads was begining to age and sought new technology to protect China's vast coastline, which automobile and amphious warfare were ideal for in the production of patrol ships.

In additon the whole of China is underdeveloped compared to the Indian empire and Chinese cities are still improving with older technology, so we desided to adress the concearn of national defense first.

[Curumbor Elendil]

Regarding diplomacy, the Chinese surely could not have expected anything else. The Chinese and Indians are, for now, the frontrunners in technology. In the all-important race for Space Flight, it is understandable that these two civilizations would not help each other along. That does not mean that India has any hostile intentions.

Now, as for the Chinese claim that they are concerned solely with defense. What exactly does Mobile Warfare have to do with defense? The Indians showed that they were concerned with defense only by researching Guerrilla Warfare, prerequisite to Labor Union. And what possible reason could there be for researching Atomic Theory except for getting to Nuclear Fission? And that is a road it would be well not to travel down...

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Frank Johnson]

As my general Chang Wu Fei says, the best defense is a good offense, if you are only defensive you limit yourself.

Besides that, Armor possesses 50% greater defensive power than apline troops, and three times the offensive firepower for about 100% more resources...why should I waste my resources hm?

And I suppose you will all have fusion powered spaceships without the understanding of atomic therory? Please, please... do you take me for a fool? Why would I doom the world to nuclear holocaust when I am so dominant?

Dear India poke not and leave your Chinese brothers alone. Its not your business what I research, what units I build, where I build them or where I put them. If you continue to seek to run China from the Indus River, I'll see to it India is run from the Yang Xi...

[Curumbor Elendil]

Ha! India would laugh at China's threats if China had not previously demonstrated their willingness to stab allies in the back and pursue them to the death (that is, if another civilization had not intervened). The securing of our border will continue.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

Damn. I'm going to have to miss this week's session, it appears. I would like to reschedule, perhaps for the next night, Friday at 9 PM Eastern as usual?

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

It quickly became apparent that the Chinese were in fact planning an invasion. They first broke an agreement banning fortified units within the radius of a different civilization's city. After the Chinese refused to remove their unit and destroy the fortress, the Indians responded in kind, and thus it went. As it stands, the border between China and India is heavily fortified and become more so every year.

India remains in theory allied with China, but China has indicated its plan to break the alliance treacherously: by initiating an act of sabotage against one of my cities. It is likely that the Chinese, having fallen far behind in technology, will steal Robotics or Flight or some other technology. The Indians call upon the other world powers to stand up against this imminent aggression. Since the Chinese have long been planning this, the Indians are, despite their advantages in technology, population, and Wonders, not at all prepared for an extended war.

If the Indians are able to hold out for about ten turns, they will build the Apollo Program for the benefit of all mankind: allowing every civilization to build spaceship parts once they receive the requisite technologies. In addition, the Indians would like to give their gracious, TRUE allies important technologies in exchange for financial support against the inevitable Chinese invasion. With a modest amount of funding the insolent, dangerous Chinese could be humbled once and for all!

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[SuperSneak]

Sounds like someone is getting a little nervous....

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Bring it!

"Do not act as if you would live ten thousand years. Death hangs over you. While you live, while it is in your power, be good." Marcus Aurelius (Meditations)

[Frank Johnson]

India would have you believe that I have long been planning this invasion, if this was true, CE would have already been destroyed, the fact is I did not make this choice until India desided to have a spazim after I built a legitimate counter fortress to India growing presence along the boarder.

The fact of the matter is that it is best for the other powers of the world for no dominate winner to come out of the battle. The Indians already ahead in power, wonders, and technology, and any support you would give to them will only seal your fate as wussy allies to the dominate player. Don't take this personally someone has to takedown #1 and its going to be me, I will prolong this game, I will not simply be walked on.

You've played for many hours, and have struggled through all sorts of hardships as lesser powers, its your choice, hold back and have a shot at winning, or support #1 India and watch him launch, leaving you wussy allies sucker punched on the ground watching his ships glide away, then you'll wish you had China around to help you stop him.. You owe it to yourself to try and win yourself, don't make someone else win.

[Curumbor Elendil]

The fact is, the Indians are far from clearly dominant. If you will look back to a Chinese post from forty years ago, they even refer to themselves as having attained "dominance"! How could the Indians have overturned the Chinese in a few short years?

Civilizations can achieve lasting accomplishments in ways other than through landing a spaceship: having most cities, biggest army, largest city, top city in the Top Five, most trade routes, longest period of peace... These are all things that leaders may be proud of their civilizations for when the time comes that one civilization lands a ship on Alpha Centauri (for we are convinced that such a feat is indeed possible).

When the landing comes, it may be that the Japanese, Vikings, and Egyptians will enjoy having surpassed the Chinese in power. That in itself would be no mean accomplishment: a remarkable "comeback," as it were. And do not think the Japanese have not harbored a thirst for revenge on the Chinese lo these many years. Would it not be sweet vengeance for them to take back those regions of Asia they lost so long ago and restore their rightful prominence on the continent to match their growing North American empire?

And what of the Vikings? They are the true rulers of Europe; their history and folklore demand it. The orphaned possessions of the Chinese in Europe do not belong with the Chinese; the Vikings should rightfully possess them and so finally come into their own as the rulers of a defined, magnificent swath of territory.

The Chinese will probably respond that the Egyptians will want to take revenge on the Indians. But the Egyptians have been through so many dynastic changes and governments; the current "Easthaven Democracy" is young and has no memory of those earlier events. Furthermore, the Indians acted honorably in their war with the Egyptians, even returning the city of Tripoli without reservation upon the accession of the mighty Easthaven I. Finally, the Egyptians have an incentive to oppose the Chinese: the race to possess the largest civilization in terms of land area.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

Furthermore, this Chinese appeal to the Japanese, Vikings, and Egyptians to help them in order to "win" is simply spurious. Does anyone seriously believe that after defeating me the Chinese will allow someone else to take all the glory? When have the Chinese ever displayed anything other than the most grasping variety of powerlust?

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[finbar]

Putting this SuperPower J. Arthur Ranking aside for a moment, Jo Jo Zep has spent the last couple of sessions wondering exactly how the hell his civ got where it is without some of the most basic techs. The AI ran the civ for a couple of early sessions during Jo Jo's unavoidable absences, and Lord knows what they researched and/or why. It is, you would have to agree, dispiriting to realise late in the 18th century that you still have to research The Wheel. Still, it has presented Jo Jo Zep with a challenge which keeps him interested and involved while all around him trip blithely towards the Space Age.



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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Frank Johnson]

Anything the Chinese are guilty of in the past India can make no amends with their record over these years. They point to a puny city in an insignifigant area compared to the Egyptian heartland with lies firmly in Indian hands teaming with the hard work of generations of Egyptians.

You beg for Japan...India...
India, who not only sold you out as an ally, but protected the Chinese army from bribery and attack in the Chinese invasion which brought so much destruction. Victory was at your grasp, but only Indian intervention saved the remainder of the Chinese army which brought control over Northern Asia. Japan already has exactly what it wants, its two anicent enemies at each others throats locked in a deathbrawl, all they need is a few freights full of popcorn and lazyboys.

And the Vikings.....you act as if I have done something to harm them, another Indian falsehood. In fact it was Chinese technology which brought the railroad the forebearer of industry to the Vikings. The Chinese have nothing but respect for the Vikings, they are not the type to join in on gangbangs.

What is the matter India? You build a fort, I build a fort, in my own city radius, protecting MY MOTHERLAND, and India declares war. I broke no agreement, I built in my own city radius, and I am met with war.....

India if you believed that you could claim the Chinese homeland as your own you are dearly mistaken, and no one else has any place in this boarder war than me and you. Seekers of revenge? Seekers of opertunity? This is what India says, but it is truely India seeking out your defeat. He now bids you comeforth to defend his arrogance, to protect his victory, to ensure his place amongst the stars, and you come running like lapdogs to your master? I have more hope for the rest of the world than you, India, you cannot make them your servants, and slaves to be called at your bidding to fight a war of your own design, over a treaty you never had or misunderstood...they are not your slaves.

[Frank Johnson]

As I thought, you misunderstood our agreement. I agreemed was to not build outside of my own city radii, only after your outbreak did obtain forts in no mans land in order to protect my territory.

[Curumbor Elendil]

Your desperate attempts at politicking are obvious for what they are, China.

The fact remains, you built a fort that was in my city radius as well, openly violating an agreement we had signed just a few years prior. I did not declare war on you, but I stated that I would be justified in doing so. The only reason I didn't declare war is that I am so weak.

So this is what it comes to...for my success in peaceful research and wonder-building, the envy of a neighboring civilization is to be my downfall. So be it. But let it be known that I conducted my civilization's affairs honorably...

...\--\
#:^|_|_/--|
~~~|-- \--|

(That's supposed to be a salute. )

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Curumbor Elendil http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Curumbor Elendil (edited August 12, 2000).]</font>

[Frank Johnson]

http://home.flash.net/~frankj/game.htm

[finbar]

Mmmmm. By the sound of this, a Diplo Game is just another typical Civ game in a different coloured frock.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Frank Johnson]

Well excuse me for the fact that no Diplo game has EVER progressed this far. Next time we will make it a scenario with just settlers and defense units with no attack and 99 defense and caravans.......yawn.......

[Curumbor Elendil]

All of this is so much bloviation. The fact remains, if you attack me, China, or initiate an act of espionage against me, it is an act of naked aggression, pure and simple, and there will be no way for you to paint me as the aggressor. I have already forsworn ever attacking you, but in secret negotiations you have declared that you would never let me "get away with" a space program and would attack me first. Those are the facts, folks.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Frank Johnson]

Everyone might as well start looking at this game as it was ment to be played. Although a spaceship may be seen as the peaceful way to victory, it is in fact the "Ultimate Nuke" you use to defeat all your opponents.

While the action of attacking an enemy who is about to construct a spacecraft seems agressive in its self, it is actually a responce to a much greater act of agression, an attempt to end the game with the other civilizations as the losers. One of the most necessisary elements of the space race is the capital defense. I refuse to be defeated, you might as well call your spaceship an obrital nuclear missile platform because that is what the equizilant of what it is.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Frank Johnson (edited August 14, 2000).]</font>

[CapTVK]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Frank Johnson on 08-14-2000 09:05 PM</font>
Well excuse me for the fact that no Diplo game has EVER progressed this far. Next time we will make it a scenario with just settlers and defense units with no attack and 99 defense and caravans.......yawn.......
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

That isn't completely true. Actually 3 diplogames were completed last year, but we only have one remaining story of a completed diplogame (most were lost because old threads were deleted).


And did you forget the most important lesson of diplomacy in the end? I'll give the answer at the end of the week.

Remember your history... http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HTML/001270.html

[Frank Johnson]

That's any easy line to throw out there when you are poised to take the traditional victory. I qustion your motives.

[finbar]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 08-16-2000 12:33 PM</font>
I don't think it's possible for someone to "win" a diplo game.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

*cough cough* Please don't take this as any sort of precedent, but I have to agree with Frank on this one.


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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Curumbor Elendil]

It's not the case that landing a spaceship is like nuking everybody else. In a diplo game everyone has a part to play and something to be proud of. There are many honors to be won: most wonders, top city in the Top Five, largest city in terms of population, most cities in the empire, etc. I don't think it's possible for someone to "win" a diplo game.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Curumbor Elendil]

We're on for this Thursday again, fellas.

Well, I note that no one posted anything about the last session played on 8/17. So here goes...

The Indian Federal Republic received precisely what it needed in its moment of crisis: the guidance of a firm hand. Curumbor Elendil, called "Elendil the Last" by newspapers who assumed that the Indian civilization's imminent demise was near, assumed the Prime Ministership in 1792 at the head of a Liberal-Conservative coalition and promptly began a massive rearmament campaign. As of 1803 the Indian civilization still stood, and hostilities had not yet broken out between the Chinese and Indians. Furthermore, intelligence has revealed that the Indians are building military units roughly at the same rate as the Chinese. Prime Minister Elendil is now considered to be the greatest leader in the history of the Indian civilization, surpassing even that great conqueror Murray Rothbard "Egyptoprinceps." Nevertheless, his greatest challenge yet remains: to beat off the unwashed Chinese hordes while still maintaining the research and productive capacity to build a spaceship. It is possible that the Chinese and Indians will brawl so violently and fruitlessly that the Japanese will overtake them.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Frank Johnson]

Sup guys. I will be having a party Thursday night with the guys. When it starts I still don't know it will be late, at least after 9 PM CST.....but it may cut our session short, it might not either, it depends when all of my friends get off work, show up etc.......just letting you know in advance!

[Frank Johnson]

Faced by superior enemies, secret alliances, and endless falsities spread by Chinese enemies, China has been left with no choice but to militarize. Now, from the coast of Indo China to the Gobi desert, a wall of Chinese and Indian forces stand toe-to-toe prepared for what seems to be an ineviatable bloodbath. The threat of a secret enemy plot to gang bang the Chinese prompted them to move their capital from the eastern coast of China to the highly fortified steppes and hills of the Russian Far East.

The Chinese people understand their plight. They know they are out numbered and behind in military technology. Their only hope is that their superior military training and heart can prevent enemy nations from lanuching any Orbital Nuclear Missile Platforms. The Chinese army, navy, and airforce is prepared to meet ANY space launched threat. Only one thing can be assured, a fight with the Chinese will be a bloody one! General Wu Fei Change is prepared to lead the glorious Chinese Elite Armor Guard into battle at anytime, their loyality is unmatched in the world to their leader Jian Fu Lynn, China's "River of Good Fortunes".......

[Curumbor Elendil]

Frank, no problem.

P.S. Actually, I don't think the Chinese do have superior training, as I rush built barracks everywhere before starting to churn out units.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

[Frank Johnson]

I would assume that India's latest forces have recieved additional training, however the whole of the Chinese military maintains a higher level of training because of our large well trained defensive army prior to this situation.

[Frank Johnson]

I would assume that India's latest forces have recieved additional training, however the whole of the Chinese military maintains a higher level of training because of our large well trained defensive army prior to this situation.

[finbar]

Frank, I can't do this Thursday night, so party your head off.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591