CTP/SMAC cast your vote..

Andrews · March 31, 1999, 23:09

CTP 1 SMAC 0

Imran Siddiqui · March 31, 1999, 23:39

Have you played both? I'm not sure you have. At least you haven't played CTP enough to make a concise judgement on it.

So, even though I haven't played CTP (and wheather I'll buy it depends on the demo..), I'll say.

CTP 1, SMAC 1

tassy · April 1, 1999, 00:16

I would give sid 10/10 SMAC & I don`t know about CTP yet i`m buying it next week...but what iv`e herd i`ll give it 10/10 as well before even playing it! LOL

Avatar · April 1, 1999, 01:51

CTP 2 SMAC 1

diatribe · April 1, 1999, 06:50

CTP 2 SMAC 2

Have been playing SMAC for three weeks and CTP for two days. CTP is a BIG disapointment, I was expecting a lot more than just a bad rip off from Civ2. SMAC on the other hand is a totally new game. Don't make the same mistake as I and don't buy the game! It's just Activision who wants to make a few bucks...

SeveB · April 1, 1999, 09:43

I've not played CTP yet, but I've got respond to that last past. SMAC a completly new game???!? More like Civ2 with some limited extra features, and a scifi setting. Even if I don't like call to power, at least they have made the effort not just to add a few things to Civ2.

Atahualpa · April 1, 1999, 09:56

CTP 1
SMAC 1

Although I have only played the SMAC demo. But I think both games have their weaknesses and strengths and all computed I think they are both on the same level. However I tend more to CTP as I dont like the sci-fi environment of smac, I just like to play on good old earth, but thats individually.

Atahualpa

Avatar · April 1, 1999, 11:29

The reason I sided with CTP is...
It doesnt claim to be a different game, just an improved version of civ2, which it does nicely. Micromanagment hassles are removed. Being able to order building queues for multiple cities at the same time is great.

What really pissed me off more than anything about SMAC is that every single turn every dam nation would propose treaties or threaten me or something else, and when I say NO they just keep asking me every single turn. Its annoying as hell having to keep going though diplomacy with all the nations every single turn. Its enough to send you into a mental institution.

Beefcake · April 1, 1999, 17:33

CTP IS NOT A RIP-OFF OF CIV2!!!
It is supposed to be like Civ2!!!
Even then it is more different than SMAC.

Beefcake · April 1, 1999, 17:33

CTP IS NOT A RIP-OFF OF CIV2!!!
It is supposed to be like Civ2!!!
Even then it is more different to Civ2 than SMAC is.

Bossman · April 1, 1999, 19:33

Based on the single criterion that I could get it to install :-

CTP 0
SMAC 1

Domk · April 1, 1999, 21:11

CTP is my vote

diatribe · April 2, 1999, 01:09

Why SMAC is better:

SMAC is a natural continuing of Civ2. CTP is just a rip-off. SMAC has far more advanced diplomacy. The Workshop where you can put unit together is great. The different personalities of the factionsleaders gives more depth to the game. The graphics are better in SMAC. CTP has a weird interface, how many times have I sent units the wrong way? CTP is "fast", you just built your first bomber and it's obsolete and stealh bomber is available. The only thing really bad about SMAC is the buggs, I have had my share of crashes and lockups but that's nothing that can't be fixed without patches...

PS Don't praise CTP before you actually played it, there's not even a demo out!!

Avatar · April 2, 1999, 01:56

I have played it, and it is out. Lots of people had it for 2 days now. Some maybe 3.

TNapoleon · April 2, 1999, 02:56

It seems that nobody learned how to count: the score goes from 2x2 to 1x1, then to 1x0... Well, I haven't played CTP yet (I'll wait some WEEKS until it arrives in my dear country), but i have SMAC and Civ2...and SMAC IS Civ2, in Space and with VERY UGLY walking units. The factions are interesting in your first game, nice in your second game, a little bit boring in the third...sometimes, you stop playing before that. OK, I'm exaggerating a little and SMAC is great (NOT 98%!!), but is just a space-civ (there was a MOD with that name, wasn't? They could rename it to the SMAC MOD).

HGB · April 2, 1999, 03:30

Admittedly, I've only had CTP for two days (and haved played Smac closer to two months), but on first impression I'd have to go heavily with SMAC. Since I thought much of the concepts of SMAC (tech, base facilities, units) were too abstract, and longed to raise my civilization from clubs to gunpowder, flight and beyond, I had awaited CTP with great enthusiasm. However, the interface is worse than clunky and the information screens are scattered and poorly done (and these are just the worst of at least a dozen objections I/ve found to the basic design). I'm sure that more time with the game with create greater familiarity and might change my mind completely), but mu initial reaction has been negative.

Robi · April 2, 1999, 09:08

Is the interface really clunky, or is it just foreign because it is not the same as the way Sid and Brian did it? Once you get over the learning curve and the initial trepidation of not instantly recognizing what is what, you'll see that it flows very easily. And no, the interface shouldnt be the same as CivII, if that's your counter- argument. This is a different game, different Company, different philosophy.

Domk · April 2, 1999, 12:58

I didnt like the interface too but now after i did the tutorial i think its great.Go head do the tutorial and then see what u think about it

connorkimbro · April 2, 1999, 16:41

My friend and i both got CTP, he started into the game, i started with the tutorial. I loved the game, he hated it. i suggested he go back to the tutorial, then try again. now he loves it. if you don't like the interface, wait till after you understand it to say you don't like it. . .

about smac, i have just one comment: no replayability.

i vote for ctp

SeveB · April 2, 1999, 17:36

I'm going for CTP

Why is everybody moaning about the UI - I admit I struggled for a couple of hours, but after the tutorial, and few more hours of playing, it seems pretty good to me.

Daniel Frappier · April 2, 1999, 17:37

In my opinon CtP is a full generation ahead of Civ II or SMAC. The interface is harder to use not because of bad design but because it was optimized for somebody who knows what he is doing.

Give yourself time to learn it or go play something less demanding like SMAC or solitaire.

Biggles · April 3, 1999, 07:12

CTP is way ahead.
SMAC is a new Sci Fi game with dull boring graphics and units you can't see.
CTP is a true sequel to CIV2. Exactly what I was hoping for.
It will take some learning to play properly, but then so did CIV2. It has more replayability than SMAC.
For me, no contest.

April 3, 1999, 08:27

I ain't played CtP yet.

However, I have played SMAC.

I build interfaces, Ive been a graphic artist *most* of my life. And I've played a hell of a lot of games, mainly for the graphics and idea's.

SMAC's interface is utterly terrible. Same goes with the graphics of the terrain and icons for the discoveries. The animations of the units are not good either, if you think the artwork of these are good, then you need to play more different games. HOWEVER, the movies are beautiful. That doesnt help balance out the gameplay though.

The "unit factory" is it called? Well anyway, so what really gets upgraded? A little engine that changes colour? woah big deal.

The idea of landing and surviving on Alpha Centauri is a good one. But shouldn't it have been harder to survive on this unknown planet?
Like the game Outpost? Now in that game, I felt I could die easily if I made mistakes.
In SMAC, I don't get that feeling at all.
I never got the feeling i'm in a different world.
The idea's were good, just not enough effort was put into them.

I would give SMAC a 5 out of 10.

When I get CtP, I'll give my judgement on that.

Also, the best Interface I have ever seen in a game, was in the game Freespace.

Excellent work done in that game. Excellent.

April 3, 1999, 14:32

Okay, all of you people who are saying SMAC is a clone of CIVII stop it. Everyone who says CTP is a unplayable travesty, cut it out. The games are totally different from each other. And they both could be considered whole new games. My first impression: I was a little disapointed with both. But those disapointments soon evaporated when I really got into the games.
SMAC has totally new features that sets it apart from CIVII and CTP. Unique factions, custom factions, special unit abilities (I love long range bombardment) better diplomacy than CIV and CTP, and my favorite the Unit designer. I love creating my own units.
As for CTP my dispointments stem mostly from the awkwardness of the interface and the problems I had with getting it installed. But like SMAC, those disapointments evaporated when I got into the game. The tile improvement building system is a vast improvement over CIVII and SMAC, and I love the new trade system. The diplomacy system seems to be a step down from CIV II sadly, but the fact that new Civilizations can be created just like that if a city rebels makes up for that.
Disapointments I still have with both games?
First of all SMAC when you load a custom made faction it works fine at first, but when you load a save game the faction pictures revert back to the original faction pictures. I know it's a minor quibble, but it just bugs me. Maybe the next patch will correct that problem. As for CTP, no scenario editors? What were they thinking? But this frustration will no doubt evaporate when the Scenario editor patch is released in a few days.

Caroliner Rainbow · April 3, 1999, 15:41

Hey, In SMAC you have to go into the alpha.txt file and tell it which factions to load up by default, that will fix your save games reverting to old factions problem.

April 3, 1999, 16:09

Thanks for the tip. Just downloaded the Beta for the CTP editor, it needs some work but it seems nice. I cant wait for the final version.

chance · April 3, 1999, 17:17

Very mixed feelings about the two games.

SMAC's interface was very ituitive. There was no learning curve whatsoever. The diplomacy was far and above CivII, and the several ways to win the game allowed me to play the way I really want to play. I agree that the factions got boring after a while. And the art is ugly. Not a game I stay up all night playing, but all in all still a very good game.

CTP. Well, the interface sucks. Selecting and deselecting units and cities is a real hassle. The concept of stacking is a big improvement, but more than once I've moved out an entire city's garrison unintentionally--it could be more intuitive. The art is much better than SMAC. But I wish I could win some way other than military or technology.

If they can fix a lot of the bugs and UI problem, I'll vote for CTP. But until then. . .

AustralianJeremy · April 3, 1999, 18:16

It's all very disappointing. Two games which are pretty much unplayable on a P233MMX with 32MB RAM (P133 minimum - I think not!) - neither of which is Civ III.

The pity is, what I really want to see is Civ III, an improvement like CivII was on Civ1; I want slightly better graphics, but not that can't run smoothly on a P233MMX with 32MB RAM (both SMAC and CTP run at a crawl; it's very
frustrating) and which have to completely hog the hard drive (300-500MB for CTP; that's a damn lot). I find it hard to get addicted to SMAC because I think part of the appeal of the Civ series is taking command of civilizations in the real world; discovering thought control doesn't have the impact of the original CivII wonders like the Hoover Dam or Pyramids. But then CTP has thrown these out too.

The pity of this whole legal wrangle is we're getting two games neither of which is Civ III. No more Hoover Dams or Pyramids; no more races to get the Great Library... Both games are very greedy of resources, too. SMAC is slightly nicer, at least coming with a laptop install, and at least being slightly less buggy (CTP's cursor problem is really annoying). But then, the constant purple-pink and blue colours are pretty offputting (just call me shallow). SMAC uses more sensible
keyboard shortcuts, though (why 'N' for end of turn in CTP? If you're going to be
hitting it all the time, surely Enter or spacebar would have been a better choice).

The legal wrangling really leaves both games feeling less than whole, and leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Neither will mention CivII (no friendly "this is what's new
in CivIII" sections) - SMAC because it legally can't, and CTP I guess because they
feel a bit guilty about it.

Of the two, I am more disposed to like the real-world CTP, but SMAC is slightly friendlier, probably due to the experience of the designers. However, I have a strong feeling that, at least until I get an incredibly zippy computer, I'll be continuing to play Civ2.

-Jeremy

Oh - one final thing. One reason this may be a particularly acrimonious battle between the two games is that Civ games are *very* time-consuming. Most people will not have time for both games, so they want to know which one to devote their time to... At the moment I'd have to say if you've got anything less than a gun computer (PII300+ with 64MB+ of RAM and a huge hard disk - you'd need a about a GB to install both games), then stick to Civ2.

Weighing SMAC and CTP up after that - it'll take people a while to get into both
enough to judge that on a long-term basis; at the moment I think SMAC has more depth of gameplay, but I prefer the look of CTP. The compromise solution - Civ2.

Sparky · April 3, 1999, 18:42

I love how all the games I've been waiting years for have come out all at the same time: Zelda 64, SC3000, SMAC, Civ 2 Gold, Half-life, and finally CTP. I just don't have enough time with each one! It's great!

Civ2 Gold: Too little, waaaaaaaaaaay too late. It should have been releaded this way 3 years ago. But...I do appreciate that MPS did a multiplayer version of my (old) favorite TBS game.

SMAC: The next TBS game I got -- and I love it. Seems like Brian Reynolds first fixed all the annoying quirks of Civ2, then expanded the game to make it better, and changed the game from history to sci-fi so that he wouldn't be sued. Way to go! I actually like the creepy graphics, though the units need to look different.

CTP: Got it 3 days ago. Been playing. No sleep. Well, that's an exaggeration, but I like the game. The music is fantastic -- just needs more tracks! The graphics are rather cheery and light, and the nuke animation is great. The game needs several tweeks (too many to list here [a scenario editor is just the tip of the iceburg]) but it is fun.

Verdict: CTP is more user-friendly and edges out on replay. But SMAC seems far more complete, like BR made sure that he had thought of nearly everything before release, whereas CTP still has HUGE holes. Patches will hopefully fix them, and maybe then CTP will seem like a finished copy.

April 3, 1999, 23:35

I haven't played CtP just yet, but I noticed the Interface was quite ugly. Thats why I asked in the chat if it could be changed, he said it could with a bit of work. So I'm looking forward to that.