Which are the best turn-based war games out there?

[Kautilya]

I am looking for a turn-based game preferably dealing with 20th century wars especially ww2. Which are the best? I already have PG2.
[This message has been edited by Kautilya (edited March 07, 2000).]

[Mao]

...ah...got my post in before this thread gets moved...

Axis and Allies

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[ProvostB]

well..you could play a civ2 scenario in ww2....

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[Kautilya]

What's wrong with this thread???

Panzer General. The full version can be found on http://bhlegend.cjb.net/

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Ban RainbowJDS for life.

[Mao]

Nothing "wrong" with it persay...well...you'll see

[The 1212 Problem]

Forgot thew big one. TOAW. The operational art of war is a hell of a war game. although the naval game is weak, it still shines. Oh and there is TOAW2 which covers wars after the Korean war. TOAW covers everything from WW2 to korean.( i like the isreali war)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, TOAW is the best, no doubt!

moving to the other games forum

[Scouse Gits]

Ah, Mao, I begin to see how you are an Emperor - I am still a merest settler at this game!- SG1

[Joe Bourque]

Clash of Steel, by SSI. It's my all time faviorite World War II computer game. It's rather old though now, so I'm not sure you can still buy it. If you have no moral objections to `Abandonware' (games no longer able to be purchased or supported by their companies placed online), try www.underdogs.gamingdepot.com. Go to `Special' and then the second page of the SSI games. Otherwise, I think I saw a copy bundeled with a lot of other old wargames in a bargin bin in the last few years. You might try digging around.

Joe

[Joe Bourque]

You'll need to leave out the `www'. Just underdogs.gamingdepot.com Whoops..

JOe

[Mao]

that's what I meant Kaut, nothing wrong, just "different"

[Steve Clark]

Anything by TalonSoft including TOAW, West Front and East Front II. All TalonSoft wargames are designed by wargamers, not by strategy gamers, thus much more serious and accurate. For those like details, accuracy and comprehensiveness, these are the best choices.

[Kautilya]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. TOAW seems to be the most popular here. I had read the reviews and it sounded good but I thought there might have been a better game since. Also since I am a newbie to war-gaming indeed all gaming I thought it might be a little too difficult. I will definitely buy it though if I get a good deal.
[This message has been edited by Kautilya (edited March 10, 2000).]

[Seeker]

TOAW: I have the Elite Edition.

Pro: I love FINALLY having a strat. game with realistic supply, units, ect.

Con: I miss having a "campaign mode" like in Panzer General or Steel Panthers.

I miss the eye candy.

I miss being able to do naval battles.

I hate how weak air power is. A mass of tactical bombers should be able to totally devastate an infantry division.

[Seeker]

BTW,

How do you win Smolensk: '41? I can only get a draw...