Winning Wonder, in the Thanks for the Wonder voting

November 23, 2000, 14:39

All the votes are tallied.
Players, we have a winner.
That winner is....
Mich's Chapel, in a close vote.

2nd Place:
Adam Smith's and Leo's Wokshop tied.

3rd Place:
Sun Tzu's War Academy

Also receiving votes:
Colossus
Statue of Liberty
Hanging Gardens
Pyramids
and
Hoover's Dam. (Cavebear's vote, which I personally feel was an outstanding choice).
I thought it interesting that not one vote was cast for Great Library, or Marco Polo.

BTW, as organizer of the event, I did not vote.
HAD I voted, hmmmm, I believe I'd have picked Adam's.
Damn, it is tough, isn't it?

Thanks to all that voted.

suas333 · November 23, 2000, 18:54

niec jon tallying it up. I think your survey accurately reflects the community's feelings toward wonders, with Mike's chapel at the top. Yes Hoover Damn is also a good choice.

Moker Guy · November 24, 2000, 00:07

Hoover Dam? whats that?

Curumbor Elendil · November 24, 2000, 10:16

The trouble is, most multiplayer games don't last long enough for Hoover Dam to be a factor.

That's why I went with Sun Tzu's.

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November 24, 2000, 10:43

Actually, one could tell by the player's vote how long they were used to playing a game.

Voting for Colossus vs. Adam Smith (or Hoover's Dam) illustates that fairly well.

Almost everyone who voted for M.C.'s pointed out happiness factor.
Let me ask this.
If you have Adam Smith's, and all single cost improvents are paid for, don't you think one could adjust luxuries to the point of being just as happy, with good income left to be split between taxes and science?
The answer is Yes.

Tizzy · November 24, 2000, 10:52

Damn, I didn't see the thread until this morning!
If I had I would have gone for Adam Smiths.
I rarely build happiness wonders, as I prefer to use luxuries to keep my people happy.

Out of interest, how close was the vote? Can you give us some figures, please?

November 24, 2000, 11:02

Voting totals for Wonders:

M.C.'s = 28%
Leo's and Adam Smith = 21% each
Sun Tzu = 14%

Colossus, S.O.L., Hanging Garden, Pyramids, and Hoover's Dam all had 1 vote.
I told Cavebear's vote, but I won't reveal any other's.
The Voter can if they wish.

So, is there now any interest in starting, and continuing, a 1 Wonder Only per Civ game?

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by IamSlowwHand (edited November 24, 2000).]</font>

Moker Guy · November 24, 2000, 19:10

i voted for adam smiths

Mercantile · November 24, 2000, 19:19

i voted for Adam Smiths as well

frankdog · November 24, 2000, 19:40

Mine was the Colossus vote...

Perhaps some of you are familiar with Ray Kurzweil's Law of Accelerating Returns:

"An evolutionary process accelerates because it builds on past achievements, including improvements in its own means for further evolution".

So, what does this have to do with CIV and the One Wonder question? Everything. If you are restricted to One Wonder, you would be better off with an early one, such as Colossus. While the other Civs are waiting to build their Wonder, you are reaping the benefits of Colossus (for example). Colossus in your capital, Sea faring, Republic with Luxury maxed out.. pretty soon you have a 12 size city and are way ahead in science and cash. While they are trying to build Adam Smiths... you are laying seige their city.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by frankdog (edited November 25, 2000).]</font>

November 24, 2000, 20:36

Think about Monday night, around 7 central time.

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November 25, 2000, 10:00

IF anybody does have interest, you need to continue, or it ruins for all.
An AI doesn't recognize that only one Wonder is to be built.
I could have settings on Empire Crumbles on Retirement, but that's not the kind of game I'm looking to get going.

Settings would probably be, 1x moves and 2x production.
King level, again, so happiness isn't overly an issue.
Land size depends on number of players.
Medium for up to 5 people (I guess), maybe large if there happens to be 7 civs.
Up for discussion though.

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

http://www.geocities.com/boann7/

frankdog · November 25, 2000, 20:04

Monday is no good for me... Election Night here in Canada. I am helping out with one of the parties.

But I could pick up a left over AI Civ the following session, if there were any left. Even at the risk of losing out on my beloved Colossus

(see my above post).

What time is that in PST? 5 or 6 ???

November 25, 2000, 20:37

PST is 1 hour earlier than central time.
Any day will work. We'll wait on you.

November 25, 2000, 23:33

I voted for Leo.
I usually don't build Wonders - it strengthens you, like Weet Bix.... Anyway, incremental rush buying gives me thje s***s so Leo makes it easier.....
LOL

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aka: half-assed dieticians
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November 26, 2000, 00:03

Hi Diety - I like your signature - but i thought it was fat-assed

SmartFart · November 26, 2000, 00:57

Lighthouse. Pyramids are OK as well.

November 26, 2000, 09:46

Where were you when I was collecting votes?

Nap Bonaparte · November 26, 2000, 12:20

In a deity level game I would go for Mikes to allow for expansion and growth. In a king level game I would have to agree with Smartfart......Pyramids takes on a much higher level of importance......especially for a medium or larger map and especially for non-duel parameters.

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Nap Bonaparte · November 26, 2000, 12:56

On 2nd thought, my comments were intended for 1x prod. For 2x prod. at king level , I would look more closely at Sun Tzu, Leos, or SoL depending on relative starting positions.....definitely Sun Tzu if starting on the same continent as other players. Again...the relative importance of the wonders is determined by the game settings.

Crustacian · November 26, 2000, 16:14

I did not vote bcause no decision could be made for any one single wonder.

But if limited to one I would not choose a wonder that replaced city improvements unless going for an early game stomp type strategy.

For the long run, I would for example choose Bach's over Mikes because cathedrals can be built too.

There is nothing quite like the boost to your early civ that Mikes gives, along with the growth potential opened up by cathedrals being in all your cities automatically upon founding, but if I had to choose ONLY one it would be something not replaceable, and for happiness it would be Bachs, even over CFC.

Colossus is not to be underestimated, and is recomended as the first wonder to go for in the OCC games. But it does expire later...

Magellans can and has many times given the game to its skilled holder...

and Hoovers, Isaacs, Shakespeares, Adams,....hmmmm all great choices.

this was an interesting and thought provoking post, but I just could not make up my mind.

SmartFart · November 26, 2000, 21:09

Anyone care to tell me how to defend against Lighthouse?

I am beginning to hate this wonder

November 27, 2000, 01:47

Crusty, you just hit on one of the most surprising ommisions to me. Not a single vote for Bach's Cathedral.
Boann and I spoke of that.
A 1 Wonder game would definitely be best on King level.

cavebear · November 27, 2000, 09:54

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by IamSlowwHand on 11-25-2000 07:37 PM</font>
PST is 1 hour earlier than central time.
Any day will work. We'll wait on you.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

You seem to have forgotten about Mountain Time. PST is 2 hours earlier than CST.

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cavebear · November 27, 2000, 10:01

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by SmartFart on 11-26-2000 08:09 PM</font>
Anyone care to tell me how to defend against Lighthouse?

I am beginning to hate this wonder

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I am beginning to have an increased respect for Lighthouse. It had not really occurred to me until recently that a player with Lighthouse could build a fleet of triremes with attack/dip units and just hang it 4 squares off my coastal cities until ready to land. And with the vet status from Lighthouse, they are immune to my own triremes even when they did come to shore.

I think that when someone else gets Lighthuse, it might be wise to plow right on to Frigates for defense!

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Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance...

November 27, 2000, 14:08

quote:

Originally posted by IamSlowwHand on 11-25-2000 07:37 PM
PST is 1 hour earlier than central time.
Any day will work. We'll wait on you.

You seem to have forgotten about Mountain Time. PST is 2 hours earlier than CST.

doh! i did, i did. i did forget.

regarding lighthouse, yeah you build it, you should go all the way with naval discoveries.
navy is a facet also overlooked.
frigate can gun down units, so is not just defensive.

Nap Bonaparte · November 27, 2000, 18:05

Smartfart.....Lighthouse is indeed an awesome wonder early on....especially in a naval based game. My only complaint with it is that it expires so early in the game. You must concede the oceans to the player with Lighthouse early on and concentrate on adequate defense of your coastal cities(maybe Great Wall). Lighthouse forces you to race thru the naval techs and build Magellans ( non-vet caravals that move 5 are more than a match for vet triremes) and then get to Magnetism ASAP to deactivate the Lighthouse wonder. But I agree with you...anytime you can get vet naval units out of the box you are at a tremendous advantage. That is why building ports in the mid game is so important.

OzzyKP · November 27, 2000, 23:54

I was surprized to see Adam Smith's get so much aclaim, i've never considered that wonder at all and figured it was a waste. Anyone care to defend their position?

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November 28, 2000, 01:57

It pays for all your 1 cost improvements. Use it as luxuries, to trigger "I Love The " days.
Or put into science.
Whatever, it's just money saved, after all.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by IamSlowwHand (edited November 28, 2000).]</font>

December 1, 2000, 00:43

Taking applications for a 1 Wonder game.
Boann has reserved a Civ.
Any others?