Had Anyone Played COLONIZATION?

[VetLegion]

SG
Thanks...I got it and it works perfectly
(after I cleaned enough conventional memory for it...ahh dos )

Steve Clark
I downloaded the demo and it is great! Combat is useles, civ model is better, but the 3d terrain! man they should take a look at this in firaxis...

[Steve Clark]

Vet: Glad you liked the demo, but am wondering as to why you said combat was useless and civ2 was better? IMO, the combat in CNW is the best part of the game - civ2 has no combat to play out. Maybe it was just the demo, since I don't do demos, they may have left that part out?

[VetLegion]

Hmmm...okay "useless" was the wrong word.

The combat exists in demo and I gave it some testing. Problem is AI is very strong , and the rules are somewhat "unclear". For example, they say that flanking attacks and combined forces attacks are more effective then ordinary frontal ones.
But in my short (I played 2 days) expirience, the random element is too high. It is so big that it denies the advantages you get tacticizing.
Sometimes one soldier can miss three or four times in a row, and sometimes he hits two others with one shot! Probably these extremes "even" when you play more.
I didnt think the combat conecept itself was bad,just that it would be useless in a civ game. Especially since civ combat engages great distances (artillery), close combat (warriors vs horses) and arial and naval fight, so this "chess board" system seemes to me isnt enough abstract.
Game has many strongpoints, of which I like graphics best. I am sure we will have 3d terrain in civ3 and I hope it is going to be something like this.

[Steve Clark]

Vet: Fair enough. I can tell you that the combat modifiers are not that random. Each units (or combined units) have a rating from 1 to 6 as well as hit points (indicated by the asterisks after a battle round). This is just like CivII with its A/D/Hit/Fire and the green/yellow/red status bars. No difference. I have fought over 1000 battles in CNW and have won about 90% of them. All it takes is very strong units (just like in CivII, I don't fight offensively unless I have superior units). When I fight, I fire from 4-6 units at once, especially from the front and flanks. A typical battle round would be drawn like this:

Cav Cav....X X X
..........Cav Cav

..........Art Art

All firing at the same at enemy units X.

Anyway, I probably bored you and everyone else about this. Let's just say that of TBS games, this is my favorite combat model. And like I mentioned at first, it wouldn't work for CivIII because it would take too long.
[This message has been edited by Steve Clark (edited February 21, 2000).]

[Bridgeboy]

The original comment noted that microprose didnt make a game as fun as civ2, what about masters of orionII, moo2? This game is like civ2 starting in the future, techs are researched, instead of cities, you develop planets. All the combat involves spaceships shooting it out, and you have about 25 different race characteristics to choose from. Any avid game players would love this game, and also it is great to play against a friend on a modem or internet connection(HEAT.net) supports it.

[Pythagoras]

I thought the combat system lacked, but the game really did make you feel like you were in colonial america, it did a good job with merchantilism and with the indians. I wish someone would make a sequel.

[KaiserIsak]

Hey, vetlegion, do u remember me? We played some ToT togheter, i just saw u was back here again. Hi from norway, and by the way, could u mail me ur ICQ #?

[Garth Vader]

Yeah Moo and Moo2 are my favorite games. I thought Colonization was cool, but got real tired of the micro-management.

let's revive this topic. the game Colonization is it worth it

[Shadowstrike]

I found some text in one of the text files in Colonization, anyhw, they seemed like dialogue for conversing with the king! Can you?

[Lord Silvi]

Yes, you can talk to the King.
When your colony is going well, the damn king will show up and tell you that his tax on all your earnings will be doubled!
You can say "Yes Sire" and pay; or you can throw a little Tea party and have war with him.
This revolution is nessesary to win the game because you have to win the revolution!
Sorry no other conversation with the king.

------------------
For those who fight for it, life has a flavour the sheltered never know.

[Shadowstrike]

I know that much, but there's other text there, one paragraph is like the king's response after you threaten with revolution. Sadly, i think it was never used.

in one of the text files I found a building which is called "Congress Building"... but I was never able to build it

there's als oa "hidden" profession for the settlers: teacher... really

in the special text file the values for the teacher are edited out. I just put the gold amount on 700o and then could hire him in Europe, just in a row with the Ore Miner or the Lumberjack

the teacher isn't able to teach in the school, however. also he isn't able to do some special works. he just looks strange and has the economic abilities of a free settler.. nice, eh?

The best game Microprose ever made besides CIV was Master of Magic, IMO...

err... then post in the MOM hint thread, mate!

in the OT they'd consider that a threadjack!!

anyway, what do you think about the Congress Building and the Teacher?

[Shadowstrike]

I've noticed them before, but what would Teachers create? More teachers? Wouldn't that be a waste of citizens?

as I said, teachers aren't abvle to teach other citizens. they're just free settlers with another look and another name... and they're not able to be taught by the Indians, I assume

I'm a bit sketchy on this game, but wasn't there some sort of education or liberalism factor that would speed up how soon you could break free from the motherland?

err... yes snapcase... generally... yes!

[ZipperEd]

After enjoying Civ more than any other game I'd ever played, I reeeeeely wanted to like Colonization, and I did, initially. But, there seemed a "sameness" to the whole game's course, unlike Civ, where each turn might bring a real surprise.

Anyway, if anyone's still yearning for a copy of Colonization, I just noticed that Chips 'n' Bits is still listing it (W95 version, US$9.95 plus S&H). Check out their website at "www.chipsbits.com" altho I saw it in a mag-ad. Phone # available on request.

You could have my copy free, but it's for the Amiga. Sigh.

well, there should be lots of Websites where you can download it... what about Home of the Underdogs? so, buying it wouldn't be too clever I assume... but thank you for your contribution to the thread...

[ZipperEd]

"Home of the Underdogs" -- never heard of 'em. Got an URL for it?

OTOH, if that's a pirate site, never mind.

I'm wondering if there are legit sites for DLing ancient or orphaned games...

Thanks!

www.theunderdogs.org

I'd say it's not a pirate site, because when a game is still for sale they link to where you can buy it. It's not legal tho.

[ZipperEd]

Whoa! Most excellent! Thanks for that -- I could, and prolly will spend hours checking out abandoned games. I understand the illegal aspects involved in DLing from this site, but the rationale makes practical sense (unlike many laws these days, it seems) and ... hey, I break the law on my two-wheeler all the time, so "In for a penny, in for a pound!"

uh oh.. what a huge post...

[Longfistking]

quote: Originally posted by Andz83 on 09-05-2000 10:10 AM as I said, teachers aren't abvle to teach other citizens. they're just free settlers with another look and another name... and they're not able to be taught by the Indians, I assume

I've been playing a crisp Windows 95 cd-rom of this game for a year and a half now, and I found another cd-rom copy in an action pack of games at Wal-Mart. (Actually, there were a lot of copies of this game. Too bad I didn't come across this thread earlier.) It's one of my all time favorites simply for the time period--early colonial frontier (one of my fields of study on the masters level). To add to your comment, teachers were specialists (blacksmiths, lumberjacks, miners, leaders, etc.) that you sent to the schoolhouse to "teach" or create more specialists. When you built a college you could have your specialist teach more settlers at once. This was a five times cheaper way to train your citizens than hiring them out from the motherland. You just sent a regular settler to the college in City A and the blacksmith would "teach" him how to be another blacksmith. The best use of this tactic was in creating gunsmiths for your cities--probably the most important specialist in the later game when the motherland was building up her forces to invade. In fact, the gunsmith was probably the most important specialist in the game, next to leaders and farmers (who could make a lot more farmers and in turn make bigger cities and more settlers). The problem with the whole system, perhaps, was how long it would take to train the specialist, and that in some cities with a college you would have to take your only blacksmith out of his work to do the training, replacing him with two ordinary citizens. It was always best to get that schoolhouse or college going after your basic needs were met and start training before the other powers or the Indians attacked. Having ten gunsmiths in ten good-sized cities could supply a large army for the big battle with the motherland. It was always the edge you got in Colonization. Which, I always thought, had a more intuitive AI than Civ or Conquest of the New World.
Some other things I liked a lot about this game:
The Economic Model--you had to find a good city site so that you could provide ore for tools and therefore guns, you had to balance sustenance for your city with trade with the Indians, the motherland, or other powers, and you needed that "extra" special-tobacco, cotton-to keep the Indians happy or your citizens rich. A good fisherman specialist could feed the pop. of a city while you concentrated on churning out tobacco and cigars to trade with the natives or sell to the motherland, (or at least until the motherland started an embargo on it). Sometimes this was quite a challenge in the game, considering the maps you got. The ultimate was to have all the specialists going in a city--churning out everything from cloth to iron ore to vet soldiers to other specialists--and becoming completely self-sufficient without having the exorbitant rates imposed on you by the motherland in the later game.
The Indian Model--so far this is the best game I've run across when it comes to portraying the Natives. I've played all the others, and though I'm not saying this game is perfect with the Natives, at least you are forced to consider your dealings with them. You had to send missionaries (especially before the other powers got there) to set up a mission with the particular Native tribe (from Arawaks, who were the most militant, to Incans and Sioux), and if you were succesful in your missions a native would "convert" to your cause and you could put him to work in your city fishing or farming or mining. If you built a city near or on a tribe's sacred land without permission you had to buy that land from them. You needed to trade with the natives for your own and their economic benefit--and sometimes your only benefit--and for their happiness, or else they'd sack your cities. They were an important aspect to the game and one of the better historical models in the game.
The Military/Political Model--as in Civ and Civ II, you had certain "wonders" or "Founding Fathers" which you gained through a research tree, and which added to your strengths as a colonial power. Jefferson boosted the ability of your population to resist the Motherland, Pocahantas increased your reputation with the natives, some gave you better naval powers, some gave you a stronger army, some bettered diplomatic relations with the motherland or with other powers. It all depended, as in Civ, on which line of Fathers you were going down. As for military, you had better frigates than in Civ--they could carry more goods to trade and defend themselves better--you had the privateer that could attack and plunder the sea lanes of other powers with diplomatic immunity, and once the motherland declared war on you, the army you had spent all game building up got continental status, boosting their prowess. Better yet, you could stockpile as many soldiers as you could in one city without support, unlike Civ--which added to the strategic value of war in Colonization. And, if you had more than 90% of your pop. supporting revolution, another power would come in on your side (providing they were a free nation themselves) and give you most of their army to fight with! Amazing! Of course this stacked the odds in your favor, but you were never sure until the last moment whether a power would join you in the rebellion. As with all Sid Meier games, it has the mark of genius.
Sorry this post went on so long, but I love talking about this game. Maybe I should put a faq together for those still interested in this game. I wish Sid would put out a sequel to Colonization. 1609 AD was a disappointment, and Conquest of the New World has the most cheating AI I've ever run across.
Thanks for your patience and interest in reading this--big blabbermouth me.
And, by the way, if you have the cd-rom Windows 95 version of this, you can play the game without the music or the cd-rom, or you can play the music without the game (which is a lovely score IMHO) on a decent Windows player. Just another big plus for this game.