Originally posted by KenThur on 11-25-2000 09:03
I doubt that U'll will change your mindset(or start times) for this game but i'll use the thread to throw out some alternative ideas.
(Crusty)***You seem to be the one expressing a "mindset", and a somewhat narrow sounding one at that.
I'm certain many of Civ MP players that are extremely wary of ANY manipulation of the rules or maps to achieve "fairness" or "equality". Thus, we will not get involved in any contest where ANYONE changes / messes with what is an EXCELLENT game system as designed. All this discussion smacks of communists "leadership" trying to figure out how the world should set up & run. (plus, it's so much waste of valuable & limited play time)
(Crusty)***This excellent game system allows for even those who would like to play 2x2x, or on a geometrical homemade map, prince or deity level or scenario premade or homemade if you like.
Are you saying folks arent free to choose Comrade Thur?
Playing unjustifyably excessively long turns is a waste of time for others in a game BTW
Why don't U just PLAY? Why must all this time & energy be spent on managing the start? Especially for a DIPLO game, where U have 4000 years, thru untold players & eras to affect the end results? It is supposed to be about cooperation & building civ's... or being hell-bent on destroying each other as soon as U find'm?
(Crusty)***Every one does PLAY Civ, even those who don't fall into your preferred mold of play.
To try to pre-manage the outcome so that U end up with civ's that are all designed to be "equal" in opportunity, size, & everything else, is to not understand the fun of it nor how well Sid & his fellow geniuses designed in subtle play balances. (as cited; 1 of reasons raging barbs=good idea).
Nor are U recognizing the fact that "little" countries like Portugal, Netherlands, Japan, Sweden, Eygpt made BIG civ's during history. Or that "big", resource-rich countries like Australia or Brazil have never become major powers.
(Crusty)*** I agree with your point on differing empires in history... even think about the USA starting out "late in the game" (try starting out at 1500, or even 1000AD with a settler and a sail or a trireme as the case may be)
I am sure about not being alone in loving to play on an unknown and hostile world, with all the things you glorify as the only true game...
But am, like those you criticise in the "pre-made map-diplogame arena, also interested in exploring other types of games including one with a premade equal landmass for each player game. This is not a "fairer" game, just a differant parameter game. I am not interested in this because i think there is a problem with wonders and random starts, barbs and whatever. But it interests me to try out some even playing field strategies differant then trading and co operating. Who doesn't love to explore, and ransom barb kings, and exploit ai opponants or crush other human ones?
Taking your start situation and DEALING with it is what I love about this game. But I also love the freedom to play on a premade (human vs ai manipulated map) even a gometrical one if I choose. And as long as a player pulls no punches and all players are in agreement on the parameters it is no funny buisness, it is just variety!!
Are you against variety Comrade Thur?
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Crustacian (edited November 28, 2000).]</font>
