Which Single Player FPS

deleted · December 12, 2000, 01:19

Okay I can't decide which one should I get. I can only get one before Christmas. I don't feel like getting the demo's due to my slow connection, as well as a time constraint.

Okay here are the criteria.
Heavily involving plot think Half-Life.
Jumping Puzzles are bad.
Good Engine that can run well on a K6-2 500, with TNT2 16 meg video card, and 128 MB of Ram.
Intelligent AI.
A healthy mix of action and thinking.

I've managed to narrow it down to three.

Deus Ex. - Heard nothing but good things about it.

No one Lives Forever. - Old Man Murray said it was better than Half-Life

American McGee's Alice. - Probably the bottom of the pile. But I heard it was good.

So if any one has played them I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks

only human · December 12, 2000, 20:10

and the winner is:
NOLF, and it is better than half life, funny as hell, 007 like at times, but if you choose to, most missions you can get through Quake-style, great great story... sweet graphics that run fast on my 900mhz, 256MB, GF2(32mb)
oh and Dues Ex is nice too

Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS · December 13, 2000, 10:59

NOLF: Fun for the first 5 hours or so, then it becomes fairly repetitive. They spent a lot of time allowing players to 'Thief' their way through the game, but blasting everything usually involves less loading and saving and thus takes a quarter of the time. There are lots of great moments though. The system requirements are actually fairly high. I had difficulty running it well on a p2 450 with 128 ram and a voodoo 3.

Deus Ex: Pretty much a wonder in every category. Fantastic flexibility in puzzle solving, neat cyberpunk weaponry, and a very immersive world. With the recently released MP patch, there really isn't a single negative about the game I can think of. It's not as pretty as Alice or other recent Quake 3 engine games.

Alice: If you've got a powerhouse system, it's a lot more fun than if you don't. It's fairly 'Tomb Raider'ish, but in a well crafted and twisted world. Lots of jumping puzzles, but you have a 'jump cursor' that lets you know where you'll land. Pretty lackluster enemy design. Not a lot of real adrenaline pumping moments.

I personally recommend Giants. It's system requirements are pretty insane, but if you can get it to run, it's probably going to be game of the year. You should do what I did and get all 4! At the very least, each game has a demo available (except Giants), so caveat emptor dude!

Jeff

deleted · December 14, 2000, 02:34

Hmm looks like Im going to have to dl the demo for no one lives forever to verify that it work smoothly. I actually liked thief except for its crappy engine.

Giants I'll have to read up on that one.

Deus Ex or NOLF. I guess I'll get the demos.

Thanks.

St Leo · December 16, 2000, 03:42

Have you ever played an "old" game called Jedi Knight?

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

Par4 · December 17, 2000, 04:59

Oh damn I've gotta go find Jedi knight I've totally forgotten about how badass those force powers are in multiplayer, and everyone knows using the light saber is the real mans weapon, with force jump and force speed or run or whatever. But I remember there was this grenade launcher thing that was badass....

Zkribbler · December 17, 2000, 11:13

Not to mention using the lightsaber to deflect enemy laserbolts!

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Don't blame me--I voted for Gore and Buchanan.

Par4 · December 17, 2000, 15:05

it's too bad force light saber throw sucks so much, darth used it to cut down the catwalk in RotJ, it should at least be able to cut anyone in half with 1 shot. I think LST is only in mysteries of the sith tho

Eternal · December 18, 2000, 00:49

Deus Ex also has a "light saber". It takes up quite a bit of space in the inventory but it's pretty cool to use. With combat strength on, you can take most humans out with one swipe.

December 21, 2000, 12:56

Light sabre is great in Deus Ex!!!

The Mad Monk · December 22, 2000, 08:46

Have you tried System Shock 2?

Not only does it have an involved plot, it will scare the tar out you (not in the surprise-shock vein either--more in the creeping horror vein).

Paul Hanson · December 23, 2000, 19:38

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!!!

Alinestra Covelia · December 24, 2000, 07:28

quote:

Originally posted by St Leo on 12-16-2000 02:42 AM
Have you ever played an "old" game called Jedi Knight?

Yes, I have, and I can't believe how unfaithful it is to the series in retrospect. The biggest problem was the bosses. For a start, they all used lightsabers, and so the designers couldn't come up with a good way of preventing you from just shooting them. So they did the unforgivably lazy act of just saying "Well, guns just don't hurt 'em - use lightsabers instead."

Secondly, if you ever have been in a swordfight against somebody, you know that things you do NOT do include:
1. jumping around like a kangaroo
2. ducking and kneeling to parry blows
3. running around in a circle, rushing in to strike, and then run away. Rinse and repeat.

Yet this is the only way to fight and win in Jedi Knight. In real life, swordfights happen at close quarters, with many subtle strikes by both sides against different quadrants of the body, and many feints and blows and parries. This much I have learned from nine years of foil and epée fencing. Yet the very clumsy mechanics of JK means that in actual fact, swordfights come out a bit like jousting matches, with the player running away to make a run-by and then running away to repeat.

One Dark Jedi, Boc, even used the utterly contemptible Quake multiplayer tactic of constantly jumping and thereby avoiding attacks. If you're after pure gameplay, then I suppose you might argue this is acceptable (I don't, but you might). If however the game has any claim to adhere to reality or a franchise, as this game does, then this sort of complacent programming is unworthy. Those elegant Jedi don't do this in the Star Wars movies. Those gore-encrusted fraggers DO do this in Quake. Go figure.

Another problem with the bosses - they used Dark side powers, AND Light side powers. You, however, cannot. Not only is this mechanically speaking unfair to the player, it is also completely bankrupt when compared to the context of the Star Wars universe. On the subject of Dark Side powers, in multiplayer, they were all more or less useless. There's nothing that a DS power does that you couldn't do more quickly and effectively with a weapon (since they only cause damage... usually in a fairly showy and inefficient way), whereas LS powers are considerably more useful.

If you play as a Dark Jedi against a Light Jedi who has Force Absorb (one of the most overpowered force moves in the game) then you quite simply cannot use any force powers against him, except perhaps Force Throw.

Force Throw only works in certain areas, where the designers have decided to leave debris lying around. Much more interesting would have been the ability to create debris by, say, hacking at a wall or floor with your lightsaber. As it is, the multiplayer powers are heavily weighted towards the Light Side, so it's obvious that the game testers either missed this or just plain and simply didn't care.

The single player mode is pleasant enough and distracts you from the flaws in the game (except those idiot bosses). But all in all, I think it's quite an overrated game, and the likelihood of people who are not hardcore SW fans noticing this or even caring is minimal.

But at least they didn't get away with it in my household...

AustralianJeremy · December 26, 2000, 23:33

Well, clearly not. Sounds like you hardly played it at all!

I'd be the first to agree that JK isn't the greatest light sabre simulation one can imagine, but remember it's pretty old. For 1997 it did a damn fine job of simulating the Star Wars universe and being a Jedi Knight. If the sword mechanics aren't much like real sword fighting, then that's unfortunate, but it's still a pretty good attempt. And an excellent game to play. It deserved all the success it got, IMHO.

JC Denton · December 27, 2000, 23:31

I don't even know ...both games are so good
I would suggest Deus Ex if u have a lot of free time cuz it's a hell of a long game, it's hard and it takes a lot of time to figure out how to get to the end of the mission (u know like bypassing guards, patrolling bots and cameras)
And the engine is not as fast as the NOLF's one but that's probably mainly because most of the time you will find yourself in the middle of big cities
NOLF's engine is much more colorful (as opposed to Deus Ex's apocalyptic future) but it's set in a completely different world (more of a 60's-spy-movie style) and it's kinda easier to play
I felt like it's a mix of Deus Ex and a little bit Quake III
And by the way - Deus Ex has some RPG elements so if you want to consider that it's a nice bonus
[This message has been edited by JC Denton (edited December 27, 2000).]

Jaakko · December 30, 2000, 22:08

I just got Swat 3 Elite Edition, and it's one hell of a game.
If you like realistic tactical shooters, this is the one to get.
It's quite an experience to play a police officer, as you can't just go around shooting everything.
The missions are excellent, with extensive briefings and believeable everyday locations.

Oh, and if you like watching series like "Cops", I guarantee you'll love Swat 3!

deleted · January 28, 2001, 05:13

Well I got NOLF. It's definitely an excellent game.

I probably end up getting Deus Ex, after I finish with NOLF. Giants Im going to wait for a technology demo, to determine whether or not it will run well on my system.

I just thought I'd say a few things about Jedi-Knight. It was without doubt a great game, but the AI was absolutely wretched. I mean you could kill practically everyone with just your light sabre and take only minimal damage, either that or snipe them from a distance with your crossbow. The bosses were much better tho esp. Jerec.

System Shock 2 has thus far escaped my purchases. Is it really worth going back and playing, and is it still for sale?

Imran Siddiqui · January 28, 2001, 06:10

quote:

Originally posted by JC Denton on 12-27-2000 10:31 PM
I don't even know ...both games are so good
I would suggest Deus Ex if u have a lot of free time cuz it's a hell of a long game, it's hard and it takes a lot of time to figure out how to get to the end of the mission (u know like bypassing guards, patrolling bots and cameras)
And the engine is not as fast as the NOLF's one but that's probably mainly because most of the time you will find yourself in the middle of big cities
NOLF's engine is much more colorful (as opposed to Deus Ex's apocalyptic future) but it's set in a completely different world (more of a 60's-spy-movie style) and it's kinda easier to play
I felt like it's a mix of Deus Ex and a little bit Quake III
And by the way - Deus Ex has some RPG elements so if you want to consider that it's a nice bonus
[This message has been edited by JC Denton (edited December 27, 2000).]

Not a ringing endorsement of Deus Ex from a guy with a handle of JC Denton!!!

(FYI, that is the name of the lead character in the game).

I'm playing Deus Ex (copied

). Great stuff! GOt some RPG elements that can make the game highly interesting in terms of what you can do. Also has a WONDERFUL story line!

And guys, it ain't a light saber in Deus Ex, it is the Dragon.

The Mad Monk · January 28, 2001, 14:27

quote:

System Shock 2 has thus far escaped my purchases. Is it really worth going back and playing, and is it still for sale?

Absolutely, on all counts!

It's currently selling at CompUSA for $15.

The atmosphere is somewhere between Alien and Aliens. The developers went out of their way to provide a truly claustrophobic envirvironent, complete with shadows and odd noises to keep you on edge (it shares the Thief engine, if you've played that). As for thinking, there are psi- and technical skills you can develop (yes, develop!) to get out of jams, and since you are almost always low on ammo, shooting your way out of situations tends to be tactic of last resort.

In short, standard FPS tactics will get you very dead very quickly.

It is unlike any other FPS I have ever played.

deleted · January 30, 2001, 09:02

Thanks. I'll check it out, even though the money isn't a big concern. Not because I'm rich but because, I don't have time, so it takes me a while to finish a game. Which saves alot of money.

tanalias · February 3, 2001, 00:44

Deus Ex and SWAT 3.

For Deus Ex, you better not be very easily disturbed by ideas.

AustralianJeremy · February 4, 2001, 17:39

Oh yeah, SS2 was brilliant. Come to think of it, now that someone's mentioned Aliens - so was Aliens vs Predator.

I got NOLF the other day, and it's just brilliant. Love the falling out of the plane level, and the henchmen discussing propensity for evil amongst themselves...

JC Denton · February 19, 2001, 10:07

Hey Imran Siddiqui, what do you mean by that?
This game rocks but I don't have enough time to play through the entire game and I am also pretty new to the FPS genre. At the time I was choosing my screenname JC Denton just sounded sooo cool...

Eternal · February 21, 2001, 02:42

You haven't played through the game yet? What's your problem? I've never been as interested in a FPS as I was to that.

Dr Strangelove · February 27, 2001, 22:38

It is very difficult to choose between System Shock 2 and Deus Ex! They're both superb games with interesting plots and challenges throughout the length of the game. If SS2 is now running for only $15 maybe you can afford both!

Eternal · February 27, 2001, 22:55

One thing to note about Deus Ex is that there aren't a lot of fan additions to the game, and no very good addon levels. I don't know is System Shock has a lot of addons by fans but if it does you might as well get it since it will have higher replayability. By the time you're sick of it Deus Ex will be cheaper and there wil be a few mods out.

Dr Strangelove · March 1, 2001, 00:35

quote:

Originally posted by Eternal on 02-27-2001 09:55 PM
One thing to note about Deus Ex is that there aren't a lot of fan additions to the game, and no very good addon levels. I don't know is System Shock has a lot of addons by fans but if it does you might as well get it since it will have higher replayability. By the time you're sick of it Deus Ex will be cheaper and there wil be a few mods out.

Actually there are quite a few multplayer levels available for Deus Ex, and even 5 or 6 single player levels. You will need the MP patch and the DX loader to play them though. I have yet to play any of the user made levels because I haven't been able to download the 30+ meg MP patch with my stinking AOL connection. There should be a fan mission page up for System Shock 2 someday soon. The hold up has been the unavailability of a loader for fan missions.

In general it appears that user created Single Player levels are becoming a thing of the past. Half-Life was the last major game produced for which there was the capability and the enthusiasm for user created SP levels. I blame the people who made Unreal Tournament. The Unreal SP level community was thriving right up until the day that UT hit the shelves. After that there hasn't been a single Unreal Sp level put up for download. We'll wait and see whether games like Deus Ex and System Shock 2 will turn out to be too complex for people to make large numbers of SP levels.

Eternal · March 1, 2001, 04:22

quote:

Actually there are quite a few multplayer levels available for Deus Ex, and even 5 or 6 single player levels. You will need the MP patch and the DX loader to play them though. I have yet to play any of the user made levels because I haven't been able to download the 30+ meg MP patch with my stinking AOL connection. There should be a fan mission page up for System Shock 2 someday soon. The hold up has been the unavailability of a loader for fan missions.

There are about a dozen MP maps, and some of them are good -But I don't play MP anyway. There are about 6 SP levels, but only 2 of them are actually playable. They are also very short.

There aer a large number of SP mods in development for DX, but god knows how many will actually be finished. I'm sure you know how it is. I'm also working on a set of levels, so I keep busy while I'm waiting. I really like this game.

Dr Strangelove · March 1, 2001, 19:47

Well one of these days I'll get around to downloading the Deus Ex patch, which I think is required to play any of the add-ons, and then I'll be able to play your level if you finish and post it. Unfortunately I'm restricted to a 28K modem connection now, as our local cable company seems to be unable to provide the quality of connection needed for high speed access. I've been thinking of submitting a petition to the county supervisors to have their monopoly revoked.

Eternal · March 2, 2001, 00:36

Funny thing is tha the patch also screws up the game in several areas. For example, it doesn't recognize when you complete some mission objectives. And this is a problem because it keeps trying to play a datalink message so you can't save until you save the area you're in. (This is a real bugger when you just send the signal to the NSF in the warehouse)