SIMUL, except for fighting

December 28, 2000, 06:42

Well, why not?
Play SIMUL but respect turn order during fights!
Simple.
Solves the problem for slow connections.
Gives room for controlled negotiations etc.

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

December 28, 2000, 23:34

I think this works really well!

Aussies played first SIMUL game last night and it ROCKS! I love it!

However, when it comes to fighting the aggressor is going to warn the others that some unit conflict (somewhere) is about to occur before starting the next SIMUL move. Turn order will then be honoured until fighting ceases

Then return to SIMUL!

This is the only way around the LAG problem and HOST ADVANTAGE. (My LAN tests show that host has advantage without Internet lag)

Diplo games would really benefit from this approach too.

Civ 3 should really refine the options for SIMUL and get rid of those annoying boxes!!

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

Crustacian · December 29, 2000, 03:06

Good idea on optional reverting to turns for movement when war is brewing.

And I hope they loose the boxes too in future

Rasputin · December 29, 2000, 09:06

does this mean jsut a voluntary code of ethics...

December 29, 2000, 17:46

Yah Raz, I think that is only way.... unless the amazing Cornmaster can write a program to switch it mid game!
It would be obvious if someone moved out of order in many cases.

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

cavebear · December 29, 2000, 22:27

I don't see how that will work unless it can be automated.

Rasputin · December 29, 2000, 22:38

probably jsut have to wait till Civ III , but even then they probably wont remove all bugs, its probably too late to get any thing altered now

December 29, 2000, 23:07

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by cavebear on 12-29-2000 09:27 PM</font>
I don't see how that will work unless it can be automated.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Why not?

When the SIMUL move comes up after the build phase each civ just waits until their turn is due despite the fact their units are active.
EG, we have Romans, Germans and Greeks as humans.
At the beginning of the "humans can move simultaneously" turn, ALL three human civs will see their units active but all have agreed to only move in TURN order during wars. So, Roman's will move first then announce their turn is over, then Germans will move and then Greeks; each pressing enter at the end of their turn. Once the Greeks hit Enter we move on to the next turn.
It's easy, try it out!

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

Rasputin · December 30, 2000, 02:36

sounds a bit complicated for the foriegners to follow deity.

Also i think you could only do it with a trusted crowd, opens upthe door for exploitation otherwise

Atomic Dogg · December 30, 2000, 09:14

The SIMUL games pretty weird to get used to but I think its ok.

I say you have to formerly declare war before you attack. If someone breaks the rules I'm sure we can find a fitting punishment.

Makes it a little unpredictable tho

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You no mess with lowang!
"A Prince out to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline..." Nicolo Machievelli

December 30, 2000, 09:49

Hey D, after you left last night the host transferred and the game ran very smoothly, which suggests simult is quite stable

But this idea of turns in war, I don't see the point. Sure, host gets first shot if there is lag, but all that really rewards is a bold commander. If the host commander is a ditherer or hesitates at all, there is no advantage. OTOH, reverting to turns for war only rewards procractinator's because they have the luxury of time to consider attacks, even obvious ones. Why reward slow players?

Also, no attack is without risk, so even though host may seem to have an advantage, sometimes they may be just walking into trouble by firing first. I'm happy to take my chances, host or not. I usuallly find my instinctive move in war is my best move.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

Keep the OT sticky thread free!!

A-Team · December 30, 2000, 14:36

I have a MUCH better use for simultanious option. Set the game on a 100x 100 board. Make a no combat, no diplomatic use restriction till at least 1500 bc on 2 x 2, much longer on 1 x 1 (the boring way to play). Set the timer on 2 mins, move it to 3 mins after 2000 bc. With 7 civs, you can now play the first 50-60 turns in much less then 2 hours. In 3 hours i bet you can play till 1000 bc or before! Everyone gets a chance to grow and develope, form alliances trade and build an army. Very fun, try it..

December 30, 2000, 22:18

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 12-30-2000 08:49 AM</font>
Hey D, after you left last night the host transferred and the game ran very smoothly, which suggests simult is quite stable

But this idea of turns in war, I don't see the point. Sure, host gets first shot if there is lag, but all that really rewards is a bold commander. If the host commander is a ditherer or hesitates at all, there is no advantage. OTOH, reverting to turns for war only rewards procractinator's because they have the luxury of time to consider attacks, even obvious ones. Why reward slow players?

Also, no attack is without risk, so even though host may seem to have an advantage, sometimes they may be just walking into trouble by firing first. I'm happy to take my chances, host or not. I usuallly find my instinctive move in war is my best move.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

OK AH, I will give it a go.... but easier to take the risk on cable than 56k!

I don't like seeing civ degenerate into a shooter style game though. The reason I like civ is the ability to perfectly plan and execute otherwise I'd play AoE or other RTS games.
To me the big advantage of SIMUL is to fly through the building parts of the game.

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

December 31, 2000, 23:01

Yeah, see how it goes. I don't see any more disadvantage than that which comes with turn order anyway.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

Keep the OT sticky thread free!!

Hydey · January 1, 2001, 05:57

See how it goes, well it usually goes like this, just as the game gets interesting someone will go overseas so we can't finish the bloody thing.

Just kidding don't run away and sook.

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I'm Australia's nuclear cop
I am the real Troll
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CornMaster · January 1, 2001, 15:33

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by deity on 12-29-2000 04:46 PM</font>
Yah Raz, I think that is only way.... unless the amazing Cornmaster can write a program to switch it mid game!
It would be obvious if someone moved out of order in many cases.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

It's not a program but it's closer...
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HT...5-2.html?47#47

I'll start working on a program now!!

P.S. Oh Diety. Was that a crack (aka burn, joke)? Anyway.... an atempt to poke fun at me?

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January 1, 2001, 19:25

No!! Cornmaster - not a joke!
I'm using your ini program and it's great

The only prob is that it won't launch civ even when I browse the path but other than that the program does what it was designed to do really well, thanks.
If you can design a program to switch between simul and turn based in mid-game I'd be truly amazed and very grateful.

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

SCDARS · January 3, 2001, 11:47

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
I'll start working on a program now!!

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Cornmaster, what are you exactly planning to do with this program?

As have already I stated earlier, one can switch between simul and turn based
by changing just one decisive byte between 00 and 01.
The details how to locate it are described under http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum2/HTML/001972.html?3#3

If you could incorporate this approach into your program, the host wouldn't have to bother with starting as a scenario or so. If this flag is preset right, the host doesn't even have to own an adjusted civ.ini!