Planning the Diplogame...

The Capo · December 27, 2000, 18:32

Alright, thus far here is the "role call" as far as I know, if there are any problems with this list please make it known in this thread....

Joe - Americans
Capo - Romans
Chris - Russians
Magnus - Ehtiopians
Drake - Incas
Sun Tzu - Chinese
Mika (I believe) - Persians or Indians

With that list we have a pretty nice spread of nations, here is the map to show the starting locations of the tribes, if there is a problem with them, please tell me, E-Mail me at NKreefer@aol.com, or ICQ me at 101832697. If you wanted in this game, and are not included in this prospective list, then contact me as well. I am sure one or more people may not be able to play, or something may go wrong, so that way you are in the runnings.

I will post the map next, cuz I gotta eat.

Peace.

The Capo · December 27, 2000, 19:11

Assuming Mika goes with the Persians, this is the outlay of starting points...
<center>

</center>

We will also be using flags for each country, here are the flags we will use, again if you have a problem with any of these flags tell me either in private or in this thread (don't complain about other people's flags please!!!)
<center>

</center>

I am now taking suggestions on changes to units, additions of units, and any other game aspects not already discussed.

For instance we are not playing with SDI, and we are increasing early ships by one movement point.

Things like that, I really want input from the players here so everyone is comfortable with the game they are playing in. Thanks a lot.

The Cap'

The Capo · December 27, 2000, 19:16

Sorry, I mean Indians for Mika...

The Capo · December 31, 2000, 17:24

*BUMP*

So nobody wants any rules changes?

By the way if you read this and are not currently invovled in this diplogame, you could do one of two things:

I am taking ALL suggestions for rules changes, and would greatly appreciate if any veteran diplogamers had some suggestions in that regard.

Or you could petition to get into this game, I am not sure if this roster is set up because nobody has been clarifying themsleves as far as that goes. so there still may be positions available.

Thanks, the Cap'

------------------
"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

-Winston Churchill

"Ceterum censo Carthaginem esse delendam"
"Also I think that Carthage must be destroyed"

-Cato the Elder, Roman Statesmen

One Love.

Curumbor Elendil · January 1, 2001, 22:21

I don't get it: everyone chose his own position on this map, but your choices seem, err, suboptimal. It would seem that you should get as close as possible to your opponents for your start, but at some natural chokehold, so that you have an enormous hinterland for the taking. For example, why didn't the African civ (the Ethiopians) start at the Suez Canal, or the European civ at the Bosphorus?

Just a question out of curiosity. I'll step out now.

------------------
Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

The Capo · January 2, 2001, 00:16

You misunderstood the idea of "choosing" your starting location, it wasn't a matter of, I want to be at x,x position on the map.

It was a matter of I want to be the Romans, or I want to be the Ethiopians, then that's where we put the players. We are not concerned with who has the "best" spot or the spot with the most resources or best potential, actually I think its a bit better that someone doesn't say "I want to start at the Suez" because that is nonsensical.

So you probably misunderstood the concept of the game, this isn't a powerplay, this is a Diplogame.

drake · January 2, 2001, 10:43

Everything looks good Capo, as I expected it would. But the most important question really hasn't been posted anywhere....What day and time is this puppy going to start?

At your convenience, I'd like to check out the map. Is this a "standard" large map, or is this a large/gigamap hybrid or what? I feel that the Gigamap is too big, but the standard large map too small.....is this a compromise? Guess I'll see when you send it......

------------------
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an off hand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

Curumbor Elendil · January 2, 2001, 17:11

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by The Capo on 01-01-2001 11:16 PM</font>
You misunderstood the idea of "choosing" your starting location, it wasn't a matter of, I want to be at x,x position on the map.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Ah OK. Still, I would choose to be the Egyptians, or maybe Mexicans then (large hinterlands become yours automatically).

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
So you probably misunderstood the concept of the game, this isn't a powerplay, this is a Diplogame.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Is there a difference? Diplomacy is all about projecting power.

------------------
Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

The Capo · January 2, 2001, 17:13

What I meant was initially, we played as a nation rather than an entity out for power. Obviously the search for power will come up, but we think its better that the strategic points are up for grabs, makes things interesting early on.

The Capo · January 2, 2001, 17:23

Alright, I think we have our first prospective time for this game...

Mondays at 7pm EDT.

So far I know that Joe, Chris and Myself have agreed to this time. Which means that Drake, Sun Tzu, Mika and Magnus have yet to agree on this time.

Again, I want to stress to other people that have expressed interest in this game, there is a chance that we will not be able to agree on a set time, what with two Europeans in the game, and the chance that someone's schedule may not agree with someone esle's, so I want to stress to ANYONE that reads this post, if you want to play in this game please say it because it is by no means set up yet.

Thanks, The Cap'

------------------
"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

-Winston Churchill

"Ceterum censo Carthaginem esse delendam"
"Also I think that Carthage must be destroyed"

-Cato the Elder, Roman Statesmen

One Love.

cavebear · January 2, 2001, 20:42

Just a suggestion. If you don't have a set time to play every session, you're going to go crazy trying to schedule and people will drop out after about a month.

The Capo · January 2, 2001, 21:31

That is the weekly time, every week Monday at 7pm, Mika (the Austrian) has agreed to play this time.

ml_4da3 · January 2, 2001, 22:09

I am sorry, but i cannot play at that time. its too late for me.. If we cannot agree about another time, i will not be able to join this game..

The Capo · January 2, 2001, 23:58

Magnus has obstained from the Diplogame, therefore we need a new African civilization. Egypt is played out so I would appreciate it if one would like to play as someone else, but if Egypt is all we are going to get, so let it be done....

other suggestions include:
Carthaginians
Ethiopians
Zulu
Songhai
Mali
Ghanan
Kush

But Egypt is fine if there is a player that wants in this Diplogame make yourself known.

The Cap'

drake · January 3, 2001, 11:26

Sorry Capo, I think you already know that I can't do this time until Suas's Monday night game has been finished. Hate to be a party pooper, but go ahead and play without me if you're going to go at this time. I don't want to hold you up.

------------------
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an off hand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

SunTzu · January 3, 2001, 12:58

Capo what time is 7pm EDT in Central Standard Time? Did you mean 7pm EST? I might be able to do that on mondays. I might be alittle late on mondays tho, i have Baseball practice from 345pm CST to at the latest 7pm. I'll try and make it tho
Every thing sounds good to me, but i need to know what 7pm EDT is in CST before i agree on the time sorry.

------------------
http://www.civfanatics.com Staff

Bah! Can't use my sig

Smash · January 3, 2001, 16:43

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I am taking ALL suggestions for rules changes
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I would suggest lowering the sheild requirement for courthouses to same as temple and NO upkeep.

Bump back the Oracle's expiration or never expire.Maybe Communism.

I would not change any ships.I personally like to keep Magnetism important.1 more move isn't bad though.If you did make a "no unhappy" ship,it should be at least 10 sheilds more to build.

The Capo · January 3, 2001, 18:23

Alright, it looks like our Diplogame has taken its second casualty....

Drake and the Inca are no longer in the game, which removes our African and South American nations from the game entirely.

Which means that there are now two openings in this Diplogame, which means I am accepting requests for civs right now...

E-Mial me at NKreefer@aol.com, or post here.

Thanks for the suggestions too.

Peace.

The Capo · January 5, 2001, 12:11

*BUMP*

Would anyone like to join the game? There are two spots open!!!!

The Capo · January 5, 2001, 19:10

Well there will be a zip file to download for everyone in the game, because there are special flags and units (graphics) that will be added to the game.

We will MOST LIKELY play on Mondays at 7pm, or Wednesdays at 7pm, but 90% we will play on Mondays at 7pm, all times eastern.

You may choose any civilization that has ever existed in the history of this planet, with the exception of one in Europe, Europe is full at this point.

The group suggests a South American, African, or Australian (Oceanic Islands), civilization, but its up to you...

aburtt · January 6, 2001, 01:28

I would be interested in playing, is a spot still open? Are you playing MGE, or TOT? Any other patches or updates you are using? Thanks,
Adam

aburtt · January 7, 2001, 14:31

That sounds good to me. Are the Americans taken? I'll have a tough time making it at 7:00 EST. I should be able to be home by 7:30 though, if that's a problem I understand. Let me know, I look forward to playing.
Adam

SunTzu · January 7, 2001, 20:36

We gonna start tomorrow? I might be to tired to play because i will probably get off from baseball practice at 6pm CST. Hmmm i might be a few minutes late ok?

------------------
http://www.civfanatics.com Staff

Bah! Can't use my sig

The Capo · January 7, 2001, 22:18

Okay here is a status report....

We have picked up an Australian player, which has a few repercussions....

With an Australian player we now have space for only one more civ, South America and Africa not being taken by any civs yet. It would actually be preferable that South America is taken by someone for the simple reason that if it isn't taken, the Americas will be boring.

So what's the situation we have, should we make it so that someone has to be South American, or should we just let the chips fall where they may?

I also need more suggestions for rules changes, we have a week before this thing happens on MONDAY THE 15TH, MONDAY THE 15TH, MONDAY THE 15TH. Alright I hope everyone understands this.

Monday, January 15th 2001, at 7pm Eastern Standard Time (U.S.) we begin this Diplogame.

Now there are a few questions:

1) Rules changes?

2) New Units/Tech?

3) Diplogame type rules, such as no war until x b.c./a.d., or no bribing cities unless x, or whatever?

And that's about it, keep in mind that we are looking for ONE MORE PERSON TO PLAY AS PREFERABLY A SOUTH AMERICAN CIV! But African is okay too, just not as good as South American.

Not to mention that ANYONE should feel free to suggest any type of play changes so that this game works out well.

Thanks.

The Cap'

PaleHorse76 · January 8, 2001, 00:55

Hello all,
I'm here to play the Aztecs.
Suggested changes:
1)Add a ship that has no attack that comes out at the same time as the Trireme.
------------------
-PaleHorse76-
All rights reserved, all wrongs avenged.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by PaleHorse76 (edited January 08, 2001).]</font>

Mika · January 8, 2001, 09:20

Sorry that I haven't replied earlier here!

To the point that a civ like the mexicans have a better position because nobody can colonize the territory behind them:

First, this is a game and only challenges are fun. Nothing worse than players who want to win always... no matter at what cost.
Second they also have a sligh disadvantage because their capital is near the border (easy solution, I know)
and last but not least capo tried to pick some civs to get a good game with good chances for everyone to make it more fun.

another thing that I would suggest. I don't know how you acted in previous diplogames but I think you shouldn act like you would today when we are in 1000bc or just 1920. Personally I will try to act like the leaders in that era did. For example not switching to democracy in 1500... or hating communists if there never was a (cold) war between communists and democrats... or asking the civ that get astronomy first if they want to insult the pope if they proclaim that the earth is no disc

cheers
Mika

drake · January 8, 2001, 11:23

Sounds like you got a someone with some good ideas in your game capo!

(Mika)

The Capo · January 8, 2001, 11:58

Alright, so far this is what I am adding to the game....

I. Units
- Spyplane, 0 attack strong defense, I am thinking of giving them the sub flag so nobody sees them. They will be useful before space flight.
- I am possibly going to grant the Stealth bomber with the sub flag too so its actually ya know, stealth.
- Mobile SAM, I discussed the validity/value of this unit with Chris the other night, the unit's defense will be so that it would be crushed by ground units but would be effective against air units by giving the AEGIS flag. Plus it could be used to secure forts on the front lines as normally a fort would be fair game to any bomber.
- Early Warship, I will make the trerime with an attack of 0 so it doesn't cause unhappiness, I will also try and have an undisturbing transport ship in each "era" so we can trade/"run diplomacy" (snicker) with other nations.
- I am considering offering the Horsemen a slightly better attack value, is anyone against this?
- I am going to make the Crusader non-christian in the sense that it could very well be a Muslim soldier on Jihad as well as a Christian Holy Warrior. So that is only graphical.
- I am considering creating a colonial era infantry unit, Regulars, but Chris said that there would really be no need, thoughts?
- Any other units you want in the game you should bring up here, I want any and ALL suggestions from everyone and anyone.

II. Rules
- I am going to extend the life of the Oracle, I don't know to when yet.
- I suggest that one may only bribe one city per turn, and further, can only bribe cities that are in disorder. Does anyone agree? Let's just say I had a bad experience in Ultradip.
- Shall we set a no war until x date, or is it all up for grabs?
- I am increasing the cost of space ship parts, caravans, diplomats, and whatever else you guys suggest.
- Remember there are *NO* SDI Defenses in this game.
- I am considering decreasing the amount of unhappy citizens caused by a unit in Demo to one, any thoughts on this? I have always thought that the repercussions of a rioting city in Demo is too severe and unrealistic.
- Any thoughts on replacing Fundamentalism/Communism with Facism?

I will post the new flags, starting locale map, and city graphics for the game soon.

Oh yeah, speaking of cities, I can't figure out what cities to give to everyone. I am giving the Romans their classic look (because I am the Romans!!!), the Russians Yanks and Aussies a European look, and then this is where I get confused.

If I give the Aztecs their meso american look, then the Indians and Chinese have to have the same look. I don't like the Indians having an Asian look, but someone suggested an Indonesian style building which could realistically sufice both, but I don't agree with that.

On the same token if I gave the Indians a "Muslim" style, then either the Chinese or the Aztecs would have to adopt that as well, which wouldn't look right at all. OR the Aztecs and Chinese would have the same style, which would be worse than the Indians.

So that's my predicament, people said "Just go with what civ has, Far East for Chinese and Indians, and Bronze Age for the Aztecs" but I would like to use a differing formula, any suggestions?

Thanks again, this game is going to rule.

The Cap'

aburtt · January 8, 2001, 12:01

So do you have me down as the Americans? Or do I need to pick a S. American country?

As far as diplo rules, here's my stance. I started the very first diplo game and these are the problems that I encountered..
1. Subs--they must adhere to treaties and agreements that the origional person agreed to. If not this leads to a LOT of problems. And people quitting

2. We found that much of the diplomacy played itself out and didn't need a lot of rules. The world court helped out (the other players) if there was a dispute, however some people wanted revenge which made things interesting.

3. One point of interest, alliances seemed to cause more problems than help. Much like WW I, people went to war that didn't want to or couldn't handle the cost. This was because of alliances, so be careful.

4. Not following traditional timelines made the game very interesting ie. democracies in 1500

5. ICQ is key to these games. It is much easier to hold "court" over ICQ. That way nothing else can take place during times of crisis.

So that's my 2 cents. I hope it helps, I'd be more than happy to tell y'all anything else I learned. The subs rule is key though.

Next Monday it is then? Again, am I the Americans?
Thanks
Adam

The Capo · January 8, 2001, 12:58

Alright, well I think we have all seven players again, but I need to know for sure, SO....

If you are in this game, and have told me your tribe already I need you to email me at NKREEFER@aol.com the following:

"I am ________ from Apoltyon, I will be playing as the ________ and understand that this game is to begin Monday January 15th, 2001, at 7pm Eastern Standard time (U.S.). I am confirming that I will play in this game."

Just so there is no cofusion, it is important that you send me this so I know for sure who I have in this game, since we are using a .zip scenario file I must know everyone before a specific date, this Thursday, or you will not be included again...

IF YOU DO NOT SEND THIS MAIL BY THURSDAY, JANUARY 11th, 2001. YOU WILL NOT BE INCLUDED IN THIS GAME AND A REPLACEMENT WILL BE FOUND, THERE ARE NO EXCUSES WE WILL PROMPTLY FIND A REPLACEMENT FOR YOU.

If you are interested in replacing someone who does not mail me, please mail me as well at NKREEFER@aol.com, so I can include you quickly, thanks a lot.

The Cap'