The Red Front Saga Continues!!!!!!

[The ANZAC]

This post is directed at Captain Nemo and Field Marshal Klesh imparticular.
I have two things to mention:

1st: After lookng back on the posts I have seen that Field Marshal Klesh had problems that the Wonder Pedia entries would be cut off. I have that problem too. I have MGE and it happens, so I speculate that since the saga (not a scenario, it's large enough to be considered a saga) was made for FW, it doesn't affect FW, only MGE. That's what I think.

2nd: Red Front is perfectly wonderful, Version 1.4 especially. I have in Emperor level in Version 1.3 gotten to.... Kitela, The Karelian Isthumus Estonia, Mid-Way through Byelorussia, The Crimea, a salient of my making which juts out through Bryansk ready to strike to the Prypat Marshes, Voronezh, but the Jerries hold Rostov. If this seems unamazing, this was my time I finished Red Front.
Let me tell you what happened. On the first turn, I withdrew my forces on the Southern Front accross The Dnepr and hold there. On the Central front, I used the forests to try and slow the German forces. And the Northern Front, well...there's nothing really there. Their panzers and Luftwaffe annhilated my puny Red Infantry. My only ace up the sleeve was that my many units in Odessa that were attracting Germans that would just stay there and attack Odessa or not move was my pinnacle of success so far. But it fell after three months. I built as many AA Guns and Red Guards as I could to slow or even stop the onslaught. By December the Finns had taken Viipuri and Kitela, the Germans had layed siege to Leningrad and Sevatopol, gotten to my defense line at Moscow and took Rostov ready to strike Stalingrad and The Caucus. It was looking pretty bleak.
Then General Winter took my side and I stalled them Krauts and it started to look good. I hadn't built up enough, so the offensives I took stalled and slid to a grinding halt, all except one. Hedgehog defenses had Appeared around Leningrad, cutting off the city. Strangely German offensives here were weak and with PzKw III's!! After I had built up a bit there I unleashed artillery on a hegehog leading accross Lake Ladoga and opened up I supply route, so now I was getting the cream of the crop: T-34/76's and KV-1's! All the while in Stalingrad I was preparing for a major offensive...
When the summer came, I was ready to attack Rostov? Yes, Rostov. During the winter, Germans had gotten into the Caucus via Rostov and Kerch (the forces from Kerch had captured Novorossiysk) and were roaming around hidden. I didn't want to waste manpower, so during the winter I had prepared to assault and capture Rostov. I had 1 KV-1, 2 T-34/86's, 1 Red Guard, 1 Katyusha, and 1 Heavy Artillery. Pretty abitious for a puny task force. As I attacked I almost took the city. My tanks and Red Guard were pulverised but inflicted some damage, but my two assault vehicles had annihilated whatever they attacked. The only problem was they couldn't attack enough and ran out of movements. They had, say, three units left in Rostove. I was so close! The next turn the Germans unleashed an offensive which wiped out the remainder of my assault team and the Caucus force finally appeared and took Maikop. Nothing happened pretty spectacular elsewhere. The Anguish!!!
Then the Stalingrad offensive opened up.
I had barely any reserves left, so I used anything I had to stop the advance. As it was looking as though I was losing Stalingrad, General Winter came to my call and I completely routed the Germans, who I had, unbeknowst to me, exhausted with the fighting! They retreated to Rostov and I felt great. Little happened anywhere else and The Caucus was quiet.
When Spring of '43 came I took a newly developed JS-2 and two T-34/86's and took Maikop and destroyed and wandering Germans in the Caucus. I had only forgotten about Kursk...
When July came, Operation Zitadelle hit me in the nuts. I forgotten that it happened completely!! I was completely in full retreat and disorder. The German warmachine had struck again. They took Voronezh and everywhere I tried to stop them, they kept attacking and outflanking. They were getting to the Trans-Urals area. I had to stop them!
Winter came and we were fighting a hideous slugging battle. Finally when spring came, I had regained everything, but Kursk.
Now in '44, I started as best a move as I could. In Leningrad, I was making headway in a breakout manouvre. On the Finnish Front, the amoured infantry, closed off the northern part of the border with Finland by taking up positions in existing fortifications. In The Causcus, I captured Novorossiysk and was ready to make a move on The Crimea.
When Winter came, the Finnish front fell by the wayside when I retook Kitela and Viipuri and closed off the borders making Finland an unimportant adversary. I moved into Estonia and prepared to take Latvia with resupply. In The Crimea, I took the whole penninsula with a Red Guard and T-34/86!! I prepared to take Perekop and encircle Rostov. In Moscow I launched an offensive which reached the middle of Byelrussia, but stalled out.
In '45 I took Perekop, but was waiting for reinforcements. Nothing happpened in Rostov or Byelorussia. In the Baltic States I had an unusual force of a Red Guard, a JS-2, and a Heavy Artillery. I was ready to take Riga, when a Tiger II came along and stopped infront of us. I, knowing a great deal about WW2, knew instinctively that a JS-2 has the same size, agility, and speed of a Panther, while having a 128mm gun while compared to a impotent Tiger II's "Easy 8" 88mm gun!! I thought I would kick the heck out of that Tiger II. Boy, was I wrong! I attacked and I died, while the Tiger II barely received, if any, damage! It was the last turn, so I thought "What the heck!' and I used my other two units to no avail. And that's my story.

I'd appreciate any comments, questions, or harsh critizism, any of your Red Front stories posted here, and you to visit my website at http://www.on.to/civ2

Thank you to all!!!

[Mao]

Off the topic...what is an ANZAC? I know like they fought in WWII or something, but what is it? Care to enlighten me?

[Captain Nemo]

ANZAC:

Just a quick note on your encounter between the Tiger II and the JS-II... The Tiger II 88mm was really nasty, not your regular KwK36 used by the Tiger I but the KwK43 which was about twice as powerful... the JS-2 actually had a 122mm, very impressive caliber in a WWII tank but it had less penetrating power than the Tiger IIs 88mm or the Soviet's own 100mm (Used in the Su-100). On the armor side the Tiger II maxed at 150mm and the JS2 at 132mm. These guys were quite evenly matched. The JS-2 weighed only 46 tons versus 70 tons for the Tiger II. As far as shortcomings the JS-2 had exposed fuel tanks, a slow rate of fire due to the large, two-part shell and only carried 28 rounds. The Tiger II was mechanically unreliable and expensive and difficult to produce which accounts for the fact that the Soviet built 4000 JS-II in 1944-45 while the Germans only managed about 375 Tiger IIs...

In the game I consider that the human player is so much smarter than the AI so I penalize the human controlled units by a few points (That's why the T-34s don't have as good stats as they should)So on an even playing field the AI controlled Tiger II is slightly superior to the Human controlled JS-II

When you lost that engagement did you consider that the Panzer probably was a veteran? Was your JS-II a veteran? What was the defensive terrain? (Attacking a TigerII in forest or mountain terrain is suicide!)

Regarding your overall strategy in the game you should take a look at the tips submitted by Field Marshal Klesh... He has defeated Red Front!

Congratulations on finishing the game!

[finbar]

ANZAC = Australian (and) New Zealand Army Corps. Originated in the First WW, combined Australian and New Zealand units. These days the acronym has become both a noun and an adjective used in terms of the soldiers and their deeds.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[The ANZAC]

Well, Captain Nemo, you're very right. The Tiger II was on a forest and it might have been fortified, but I couldn't tell because of the shield paintings. Finbar, you are absolutely right about what the acronym ANZAC stands for. I'd appreciate it if you gave me a link to the strategy for Red Front by Klesh. I'd also like to see some other Red Front stories and strategies here, too. Thanks!!

[The ANZAC]

That is could Captain Nemo give me the link to the strategy of Klesh.

[Sten Sture]

ANZAC - make sure you check out the Scenario League threads in the Hosted section of Apolyton's Forums... there is a bunch of Red Front stuff there.

PolarisGL has a new website where he is collecting scenario strategies and has includes FM Klesh's tactic here --> http://members.xoom.com/civpolaris/rf1.html

If anyone sees this and is wondering just how good Red Front is... stop wondering - it is awesome!

[klesh]

Hey ANZAC,
Upon reading your results, I noticed that you never mentioned Katyusha's! They are the creme de la creme for seiging German cities. Use them in the summer months because of their excellent movement points. Also, build Il2- Sturmovich's. Those flying tanks are the best for taking out the stacked German infantry and armor. I can remember 1 Il2 taking care of like 7 stacks...at least 4 units per stack! Hook up a large force of those bad boys and you can wipe out many a unit. However, they are useless during the winter months, so you'll need to step up the defense of your cities. At least 1 KV-1 per major city preferably 2-3, 5-6 AA batteries, scores of RedGuard infantry(once these are available, forget standard Red Infantry), and at least 1 Katyusha for taking out wounded German units after their strikes. You will need more units than you think to hold Stalingrad/Leningrad/Rostov/Moscow etc...
Also, when reading my tactic, take note of my "Chokepoint Kerch" theory. If the Germans make it into the Caucusus Mountains and take 2 of 3 oil producing cities, your science and ecomony and most importantly your game, will be over!
You didn't mention much about your "UMIP": Ural Mountain Industrialization Program. How did that go? You MUST make that a terribly high priority in order to eventually overpower the Germans with sheer numbers. You have to have 15-20 cities pumping out 70-100 shields per turn...T-34/85's, Katyushas, Il-2's and eventually JS-2's must roll off the lines at an alarming rate to push the Germans out of the mother-country. Also, did you build any Wonders to help? Which ones?
BTW- Yeah, MGE is the culprit regarding the write-ups being cut off.
Ok, gotta split, at my college's library now. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, been trying to keep up with school. Feel free to e-mail me for any discussion! Glad to help! My address is on my profile. Enjoy, Komrade!

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!

[Xin Yu]

You guys all have good strategies for RF 1.4, but I'm not impressed. This is a tough scenario, so you need to do it right at the very beginning. If you do it right at the beginning, then you will have no sweat in defeating the German.

What can be done at the beginning? You got most of it, including:

Sell city improvements in western cities;
Build and move refugees to the east;
Give up some front cities while strengthen the Leningrad-Moscow-Stalingrad line (territory for time);
Select suitable units and rush-build them for defense and counter-attack.

However. However....

The most important thing to do is to disband all 'red army' units which cannot be retreated to safe zone!

Why? Because if your 'red army' got killed, it will trigger a lot of events, which eventually give the German 6 vet, NONE units! By disbanding the red army, you are trading units with the German at 1:6 rate!

I personally prefer disbanding 'partisans' as well, for a similar reason.

And, you can sell the anti-tank of two of your cities so that they won't be occupied, hence no Karl should appear....

Question about refugees. What's the best thing to do with them. I have moved them all east. And after winter I have been using them to enhance the terrain. But is there a way to add them to the cities population. I have never been able to do this in civ2. I heard you can use settlers and add them to a city. I have went inside the city screen and accessed them, but it still doesn't work. Any suggestions?

ANZAC, if only you were here a year ago. You could've joined my CivANZACs

[Sten Sture]

BlackBart - move your settler/refugee on to the city you want to join - click on the ORDERS menu bar at the top of the main screen and there should be an option to JOIN the city. Do not go into the city view.

Xin - I take it you have finished RF? (MGE I assume) What date should we mere mortals shoot for? I only played thru part of the first turn because I think the original .bat file didn't work correctly - (I couldn't sell any improvements in the first turn or move most of my units - it might be by design.) I did a good bit of road/rail/indu pillaging and tried to space out units to funnel ZOC; built refugees almost everywhere, and bought the most expensive improvements I could to use up cash so the Nazi's wouldn't get it. I was a little frustrated that I couldn't sell walls in some of those smaller towns and force destruction instead of capture. Looks like great fun...

[The ANZAC]

Black Bart- You can move the refugees into a city under 8 and press 'b' on your keyboard also!!

Dracon- Clue me in: What's CivANZACs?

Field Marshal Klesh- You're right! I forgot to mention a lot of that good stuff. Have you played v1.4? I built up the cities of Kirov, Kazan, Guryev, Uralsk, and Ulyanovsk with the refugees I could get. Also I try to hold on to the cities which produce refugees via events and use those doomed cities to build mor refugees. Feel free to e-mail me too at theaznac@nac.net if my e-mail isn't under my profile!

[The ANZAC]

Black Bart- You can move the refugees into a city under 8 and press 'b' on your keyboard also!!

Dracon- Clue me in: What's CivANZACs?

Field Marshal Klesh- You're right! I forgot to mention a lot of that good stuff. Have you played v1.4? I built up the cities of Kirov, Kazan, Guryev, Uralsk, and Ulyanovsk with the refugees I could get. Also I try to hold on to the cities which produce refugees via events and use those doomed cities to build mor refugees. Feel free to e-mail me too at theaznac@nac.net if my e-mail isn't under my profile!

[Neon Deon]

Xin, I think there are 2 types of events in a scenario. Ones that should and ones that could. I think u just trampled over a should event there by making it a different scenario

[The ANZAC]

Also, what's up with the "settler" below my username and how do you get "emperor" or "warlord"?

need 31 posts to get to Chieftan. And 101 posts to get to warlord. I think prince is 301. And Kind is 1001. Emporerer is 3001 post count I believe.

Thanks for the help. Now I can get more use out of all my refugees. I managed to get quite a few back east.

[Captain Nemo]

301? This is my post # 301 by pure coincidence and if you're right I should now be a "Prince" of Apolyton...

[Captain Nemo]

Apparently not, Maybe 501?

[Captain Nemo]

How about it 302? Or maybe just a time delay for the server to register it...

[Xin Yu]

I'm the happiest person !!!

I found a way to defeat RedFront! Check out my thread on the scenario forum . Man, this is sweet.

[The ANZAC]

Which thread and where, Xin?

[Seeker]

I have a wierd strategy for RF. I build lots of airbases in those wacky cities in the east with high production and send t-34s to moscow. Everywhere that can build Red Guards in 1 turn does, those that can't make red army (didn't know that thing about the event...). Then, I don't attack. I just build up t-34s in moscow while my red guards delay the enemy (air ports in Stalingrad and Leningrad as well). Then, in winter 1941, I launch a massive assault that recaptured minsk.

[Mao]

quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC on 04-02-2000 11:09 AM Which thread and where, Xin?

Scenario League Forums...SLeague I believe

Could someone repeat (again) the destination of the current RedFront version (1.4, I think) ?
In fact, I've downloaded it before but I've forgotten from where I got it...
In the ScenarioLeague they only have Version 1.2

[Xin Yu]

a) Rush build some freighters in your river-side cities in June 1941;
b) then in July 1941 ferry your labor brigades to the spot of 'fortified positions' and build cities there;
c) move the freigherts to the new cities and carry those fortified positions to other cities using chain-transportation.

On the north I moved one fortified position to Riga. On the south I moved 3 fortified positions (one between Stalingrad and Moscow, one 3 squares west of Stalingrad, and one south of Kiev) to Odessa, Nikolaev, Kiev, respectively. Believe me this can be done in July 1941!

d) You need to pillage one suburb square northeast of Kiev so no enemy can sneak pass it;
e) also in August 1941 move more fortified positions to seal the gaps between Kiev and Nikolaev. This way the north and the south are safe.
f) You can concentrate all of your forces to the central front and fight face to face with Hitler. No soviet fighters needs to retreat.
g) you will even have enough force to invade Finland and wipe it out during Summer 1941 (using 4 vet cruisers to bombard Hersinki, then land 8 T34/85 tanks should do the job).
h) build airbases in your eastern cities so that your labor brigades can be airlifted to the front. You have a total of 16 labor brigades, use them to build cities on the sites of fortified positions/fortified artillaries. If you can move them, that's terrific; even if not, you can reset the home city and they won't be disbanded.
i) Attack Germany via north and south using the rivers. Carry your fortified positions with you. There will be no counter-attack. Prefer do it during winter since you will not suffer from air-raids.
j) who need refugees to build up the Ural? They can be used as tank-bait and when they are killed you have partisans, which are terrific in killing hedgedogs.

You can do it in Deity level!

[The ANZAC]

quote: Originally posted by Andz83 on 04-02-2000 02:40 PM Could someone repeat (again) the destination of the current RedFront version (1.4, I think) ? In fact, I've downloaded it before but I've forgotten from where I got it... In the ScenarioLeague they only have Version 1.2

Well, you can go to http://www.chat.ru/~kabalero and click on the picture of a scene from Red Front and it has the download.

[The ANZAC]

Good Idea Xin!!!

[Captain Nemo]

Xin Yu:

Do I really have to create a special version of Red Front for you alone? If I make it much more difficult no-one else will want to/be able to play it?
Here are my change for the Xin Yu RF version:

Fortified Batteries and Fortified positions are stationary helicopter units... (They can't be carried by ship) and they slowly die over time (Morale of troops decay as they sit out there isolated from their units).
After 1942 they pick up and move (Auto-converted to Red Army by the Soviet armament industry) so they won't outlive their intended lifespan.
All German units are created when German units die (At least you can't disband them). Killed refugees give Germans new veteran SS units instead of Soviet partisans.
(Partisans only appear when Soviet cities are taken)
The Finnish towns are all manned with Fortified batteries (Like the Swedes) until 1944.
All German rivers are mined.

I'm just kidding of course... I think it is amazing that you found this many loopholes. Most are legitimate.
Disbanding the units that trigger German reinforcements is a semi-cheat since you had to look in the events to figure that one out. Same with the Karl units.
The events are the AI's strategy so looking in them is like looking into your opponent's hand at Poker and then beating him... Not much of a challenge.

[Xin Yu]

Nemo: You have done a good job and I was already a loser at version 1.3 (I was too confident of my self that I lost too many units which could have been retreated. As a result I stopped playing after 3 turns). You did a hell of a job. Afterwards I looked at the events files just to study your strategy (or in your words, the AI's strategy).

So I'm not a cheater, but a loser trying to know what could have been done to win....