Aussie civ groups split over issues:-HELP

Hydey · February 7, 2001, 09:46

The once mighty Aussie group has split over :

1/ War in Simul
2/ unit bribing
3/ cheat calls
4/ finbars spelling checks
5/ Hydey's Drinking

I call on the united civ nations to help this fine group of civvers work out there differences.

Help us please,
your friend HYDEY
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Hydey (edited February 07, 2001).]</font>

Ming · February 7, 2001, 10:14

ROTFLMAO! But a question...
Why is number 5 a problem

Curumbor Elendil · February 7, 2001, 15:19

I think we'll need some more details to help y'all out.

I think the war in simul thing can be resolved by moving to turn order during wars. Also you might want to make it so that you declare war a turn in advance before you can attack (no sneak attacks), then go by turn order if a lower color declares war on a higher, or by reverse turn order if a higher color declares war on a lower.

Re unit bribing: this should always be assumed to be allowed. City bribing is another thing.

"Cheat calls"?

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

SuperSneak · February 7, 2001, 15:59

My solutions are as follows:
1. Don't care.
2. Bribe away.
3. Duel with sabres at dawn.
4. Ignore him or just type "Rolling Stones Sux" into the King Chat over and over and over...
5. Give me some.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Hydey on 02-07-2001 08:46 AM</font>
The once mighty Aussie group has split over :

1/ War in Simul
2/ unit bribing
3/ cheat calls
4/ finbars spelling checks
5/ Hydey's Drinking

I call on the united civ nations to help this fine group of civvers work out there differences.

Help us please,
your friend HYDEY
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Hydey (edited February 07, 2001).]</font>
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

February 7, 2001, 17:18

My advice to anyone who wants to buy into this is don't

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

February 7, 2001, 18:27

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 02-07-2001 04:18 PM</font>
My advice to anyone who wants to buy into this is don't

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Indeed Alexanders Horse.... not very convenient.

Elendil hit the nail right on the head.

Please see the TWO Aussie threads regarding these contoversies: Another Happy Evening of MP - two threads.

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924

February 7, 2001, 18:42

Deity, you broke the rules, you're out. End of story. How other groups and individuals prefer to play is irrelevant.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

finbar · February 7, 2001, 18:54

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ming on 02-07-2001 09:14 AM</font>
ROTFLMAO! But a question...
Why is number 5 a problem

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Because he dribbles into his keyboard and it jams the game!

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Mono Rules!
#33984591

finbar · February 7, 2001, 19:15

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 02-07-2001 02:19 PM</font>
I think we'll need some more details to help y'all out.

I think the war in simul thing can be resolved by moving to turn order during wars. Also you might want to make it so that you declare war a turn in advance before you can attack (no sneak attacks), then go by turn order if a lower color declares war on a higher, or by reverse turn order if a higher color declares war on a lower.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

This little stink arose, I suspect, out of the fact that war was never actually offocially declared. Horse accidentally sank one of Deity's boats and offered compensation. Deity didn't accept the compensation offer. Well, he didn't exactly reject it either. His response was a smiley face - as in

- which doesn't appear in my copy of the Acme Book of Approved Negotiating Techniques. Anyway, Horse seemed to take it - from Deity's lack of real response - that a state of war existed and proceeded to do a bit more plundering.

Once we'd all established that a state of war existed - and that, in itself, took longer than the 100 Years War - Deity insisted that the game go turn-based, on the basis that it was his policy not to fight wars in simul mode. Horse rejected that on the basis that it was only Deity's personal preference and not a pre-agreed game requirement. Votes were called for, abuse was hurled ...

And then things took a turn for the ... um ... truly farcical ...

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Re unit bribing: this should always be assumed to be allowed. City bribing is another thing.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

... Deity bribed a couple of Horse's units. Horse objected just a bit vociferously. Y'see, it's Horse's personal preference that unit bribing not be allowed. It gets bandied around before games, but it's never been officially agreed.

So, essentially, we have two players whose personal preferences - neither of them officially agreed between the group - have been booted up the date (an old-fashioned Oz euphemism for a kick up the Khyber).

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>"Cheat calls"?

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Surely it doesn't take a lot of extrapolation?

------------------
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#33984591

February 7, 2001, 19:21

As far as I am concerned, no unit bribe was agreed. In fact I won't play in games with unit bribe because I think its farcical. I've said it over and over again at the start of play and as far as I'm aware no-one has objected. So we better sort this out pronto.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited February 07, 2001).]</font>

finbar · February 7, 2001, 19:27

Yes, you've said it, but it's never been decided by vote. Personally, I've never had a problem with unit bribe. City bribe is something altogether different.

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#33984591

February 7, 2001, 19:30

I really wish you'd spoken up sooner instead of dropping this bombshell now. I will not play in games with unit bribe so looks like my multiplayer career with the current group is over as of last night.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

finbar · February 7, 2001, 19:36

It's not a bombshell. I've always differentiated between unit and city bribe. The problem is, the unit bribe scenario has never been thrashed out in a vote. Everyone tosses around game preferences and things move on. The only certainties in our games no formal alliances and no city bribing. Actually, I don't have strong feelings either way about unit bribing.

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#33984591

February 7, 2001, 20:05

It is a bombshell to me that you seem to have been playing under the impression that no bribing units was simply my preference and not an agreed rule. Perhaps this all solidified whilst you were in Italy.

I'm flabbergasted. And in terms of my dispute with Deity, it gives Deity a nice out. Your timing could not have been worse to bring this up.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

War4ever · February 7, 2001, 20:27

What about building cities on mountain tops

February 7, 2001, 20:37

Should I be surprised that you like to pick at scabs War4?

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

Curumbor Elendil · February 7, 2001, 21:10

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Once we'd all established that a state of war existed - and that, in itself, took longer than the 100 Years War - Deity insisted that the game go turn-based, on the basis that it was his policy not to fight wars in simul mode. Horse rejected that on the basis that it was only Deity's personal preference and not a pre-agreed game requirement. Votes were called for, abuse was hurled ...

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Could have seen this coming from the debates that have gone on in this forum...

Good thing we sorted all these things out for the Wednesday night game, eh?

------------------
Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

February 7, 2001, 21:13

Of course the missing element here is that all players except one wanted the game to continue in simult, and he only kicked up a stink after being worsted in a couple of naval battles. Then of course things went from bad to worse.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

War4ever · February 7, 2001, 21:14

Actually AH..... i was just wondering (innocently of course) if this was a rule you left out too... joking of course..... i hope u guyz work out your problems and when we play again lets get all the rules up front

finbar · February 7, 2001, 21:19

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 02-07-2001 07:05 PM</font>
It is a bombshell to me that you seem to have been playing under the impression that no bribing units was simply my preference and not an agreed rule. Perhaps this all solidified whilst you were in Italy.

I'm flabbergasted. And in terms of my dispute with Deity, it gives Deity a nice out. Your timing could not have been worse to bring this up.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Perhaps things were agreed while I was away. I have no way of knowing. Before I went away, though, there was no group agreement concerning unit bribe. What's more, it really doesn't matter what I raise - you two have drawn your lines in the Civ sand. You're adamant there is no unit bribe, he's adamant there's no war under simul. Everything else is windowdressing.

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#33984591

finbar · February 7, 2001, 21:21

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by War4ever on 02-07-2001 07:27 PM</font>
What about building cities on mountain tops

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Watch it, War, Australians have an unsual habit of putting aside bitter personal differences in order to tear foreigners into bits and pieces.

------------------
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#33984591

February 7, 2001, 21:22

Actually I believe Deity knew full well the no unit bribe rule. The reason he pulled the bribery stunt was he had lost the argument over simult war in the prior turn and then took some heavy losses (2 tris, 2 caras) in the following turn. He then bribed my tri and chariot to give himself some leverage to re-open the simult war issue. Its as simple as that. The evidence for this is that immediately after bribing and being called on it, he tried to link the settlement of the bribery issue with a renegotiation on, surprise, surprise, simult war. Its so transparent.

Btw, I'm coming last in this game so its hardly like I pose a major military threat to Deity, who happens to be coming first.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

finbar · February 7, 2001, 21:53

Mmmmm. Seems to me that last position is an inviting place from which to put the proverbial feline amongst the little grey feathered fellas.

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#33984591

February 7, 2001, 22:06

I've just realised your interventions on this matter finny bear a remarkable likeness to real world Italian diplomacy. They can always be counted on to muddy the waters on just about any issue

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

War4ever · February 7, 2001, 23:14

hm......seems to be real thought and aussie mindlessness going on.... stick to issue..... i want this resolved.....

I suggest you go back to the old save..... agree on no simul war for this game and no dip bribing.....

Geez do i have to solve everything for you guyz

NEXT GAME make sure everyone (both Deity and AH included) UNDERSTAND the rules..... this way if you don't like them , you don't have to play....

Or else you can go back to sooking each other and we shall all have a laugh at your expense!! After all a laugh a day keeps the doctor away

have fun fellas

February 7, 2001, 23:26

Otoh, just don't play anymore. Saves a lot of drama and stoppages

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

finbar · February 7, 2001, 23:46

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 02-07-2001 09:06 PM</font>
I've just realised your interventions on this matter finny bear a remarkable likeness to real world Italian diplomacy. They can always be counted on to muddy the waters on just about any issue

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Absolutely spot on!

The only truly important things in life are, after all, food ... and food ... and food ... oh, and food.

------------------
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#33984591

February 8, 2001, 00:21

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by finbar on 02-07-2001 10:46 PM</font>

Absolutely spot on!

The only truly important things in life are, after all, food ... and food ... and food ... oh, and food.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

When you put sex in there as well I'll know you are a real Italian.

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

finbar · February 8, 2001, 01:00

Some things are understood, il mio amico.

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#33984591

February 8, 2001, 02:56

I think this post belongs in both of the threads discussing these issues...
------
I can honsetly say that, like finbar, I thought the only two rules agreed on that deviate from the normal game were No Alliance and No City Bribe of humans.
To get the Aussie group up again we need a vote to set rules for all our games in progress.

I vote for the above rules. They are standard throughout much of 1x1x civland.

As for SIMUL, well ALL our current games were started before we knew about SIMUL. I was the one that saved the TBS saves as SIMUL saves so that we could speed up our games. I have strssed all along that SIMUL during war is absurd and you miss out on all the fun by trying to cover so many areas of activity. So, as for ground rules ALL our current games that I am in were set up as TBS!

But, for the sake of the group I'll accept the vote on all these points.
Thanks for your efforts War4

If diplo-bribing of units is dis-allowed by this vote I'm happy in that particular game to go back a turn and disband the caras I lost if they still exist.
And allow AH to attack with that Chariot if he so desires.

Can't say fairer than that eh?

I guess the 5 regular Aussies are the ones to vote:
finbar
AHorse
Lowang
Hydey
deity

Also, I must suggest that this is a vote for what YOU want, not what you thought you were told was the rule.

As for scared AH, hmmmmm, try getting out of this...

You are trying to avoid playing me now but I really want to keep playing you.... no matter what...

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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by deity (edited February 08, 2001).]</font>