obsolete units - the explorer case

weird god · January 16, 2001, 11:39

explorers are one of my favorite units and of much use even later in the game. but it seems i can´t build them anymore after the discovering of chivalry which is very early in the game.
if i don´t change explorer-production after chivalry i still can build them as long as i keep it. however i can´t start building them in another city or after changing - seems to be a bug because normally obsolete units are upgraded by the new one e.g. phalanx to spearmen (would be interesting if it´s the same with warriors which don´t have an upgrade too, anyone has tried it out?).

another point: both chivalry and seafearing are early techs. what happens if i get chivalry before sf? can i build explorers as long as i like?
i remember building explorers very late in the game before i upgraded my multiplayer version, and even sometimes nowaydays (maybe the host hasn´t updated?)

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god made weed.....you don´t really think he fails sometimes?

weed god, chief of EUROPA
www.multispieler.de
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by weird god (edited January 16, 2001).]</font>

Crustacian · January 16, 2001, 16:38

That is unusual, and I am able to build them later than that too.

weird god · January 16, 2001, 17:03

actually i host lots of my games and i´m pretty sure that i don´t have a modified rules text. i also asked w0ke about this and he told me that in his games chivalry also makes explorers obsolete. he´s an european too so maybe this is caused by the patch for the non-us version....

Curumbor Elendil · January 16, 2001, 17:25

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by weird god on 01-16-2001 04:03 PM</font>
actually i host lots of my games and i´m pretty sure that i don´t have a modified rules text. i also asked w0ke about this and he told me that in his games chivalry also makes explorers obsolete. he´s an european too so maybe this is caused by the patch for the non-us version....

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Strange. Well, changing it is easy enough...

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

weird god · January 16, 2001, 18:39

i´m surprised this doesn´t occur in your games, i always thought this was caused by the update. i don´t really understand the civ2-code and i don´t want to change it, but if it only happens with the non-us update i´m gonna think about it. please let me know which version you use and how the explorer-thing works on your machine.

Smash · January 16, 2001, 20:31

Chivalry elimates horseman.Explorers last until Guerrilla Warfare IIRC.Supposed to anyways.

weird god · January 16, 2001, 21:51

i tested to invent chivalry before seafearing, and guess what....i couldn´t even build a single explorer. this sucks! so it´s definetly sure, for whatever reason, chivalry obsoletes explorers. any europeans out there to confirm my non-us-version-sucks-theory??

weird god · January 16, 2001, 21:56

or any americans where this accures too?

Curumbor Elendil · January 16, 2001, 22:52

Weird, it's easy to change this, it doesn't take 15 seconds. Just open your rules.txt file in your main civ2 directory, scroll about two-thirds of the way down, and you'll start to see units. The legend at the top of where the units begin shows the format for the numbers and letters you see (it's self-explanatory). You'll see "Chi" as one of the inputs next to Explorer. Change that to "Gue." (no period) Save it, and you've finished!

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

Smash · January 16, 2001, 23:32

It should look like this

Curumbor Elendil · January 17, 2001, 01:53

That is very weird. In all versions of the game the explorer unit is supposed to expire with Guerrilla Warfare, which is a very late-game tech. I think the host of your game has been using a modified rules.txt that (s)he didn't tell you about.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

Curumbor Elendil · January 17, 2001, 14:31

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by weird god on 01-17-2001 12:28 PM</font>
hmmmmmm. i´ve no rules.txt file but a rules.ger which i can open with the word pad. the original explorer line is:

Entdecker, Gue, 0, 1.,0, 0a,1d, 1h,1f, 3,0, 0, Sea, 000001000000010

entdecker is german for explorer. it´s the same as above...
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I see...Probably you selected the German-language option for Civ so it uses rules.ger instead. Just do the same as recommended above, and it should work.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

weird god · January 17, 2001, 14:40

there´s no need to change the rules.ger because it is already the same as recommended (see above). i´ve no other rules.* file at all....damn

Curumbor Elendil · January 17, 2001, 16:22

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by weird god on 01-17-2001 01:40 PM</font>
there´s no need to change the rules.ger because it is already the same as recommended (see above). i´ve no other rules.* file at all....damn
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Oh, sorry. Duh. :smacks forehead:
I don't know what to tell you, except maybe to change the name of rules.ger to rules.txt.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

Smash · January 17, 2001, 17:33

Well this is odd.The game won't use a file labeled rules.ger.It must be rules.txt.There must another one in there somewhere.My copy has a rules.ger,rules.fre and the rules.txt.There should be .ger copies of several files..ger and .fre are for French or German versions.You can substitute and make your copy into French or German.I have done this,but can't answer why.

Another thing,if your game was using that text,the explorer would function normally and all your units would be labeled in German.

How does the pc version work?Is there a support folder?

kengel · January 17, 2001, 20:04

I have a german version too (Multiplayer classic), but explorers are allowed to build till guerilla warfare reached.

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greets from the Warrior of sky

weird god · January 18, 2001, 01:20

thx

weird god · January 18, 2001, 01:28

hmmmmmm. i´ve no rules.txt file but a rules.ger which i can open with the word pad. the original explorer line is:

Entdecker, Gue, 0, 1.,0, 0a,1d, 1h,1f, 3,0, 0, Sea, 000001000000010

entdecker is german for explorer. it´s the same as above...

weird god · January 18, 2001, 09:16

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Smash on 01-17-2001 04:33 PM</font>
It must be rules.txt. There must be another one in there somewhere.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

i relooked at it, there´s only a rules.ger and no rules.txt. however it works, but it´s really odd since the explorer line should be ok. guess this is a bug.

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god made weed.....you don´t really think he fails sometimes?

weed god, chief of EUROPA
visit EUROPA: www.multispieler.de

weird god · January 20, 2001, 23:17

hmm, anyone else who has detected this bug?

Curumbor Elendil · January 22, 2001, 22:18

Well, I've discovered this bug now. I added three new units in the rules.txt. Then I started noticing that the Explorer wasn't available when it should be. Some experimenting showed that it was expiring with Polytheism!! I tried varying everything: attack, defense, movement...I even tried creating a new Explorer unit in a different slot. Nothing worked - except changing the AI function of the explorer from "attack" to "defense" made it expire with Gunpowder. Still unacceptable. This is VERY FRUSTRATING!! Especially as these rules are supposed to be used in a game on Wednesday.

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Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

Kaak · January 26, 2001, 17:22

I haven't really read all the responses, but i think i was one of the first to notice this...It is simply a bug with the MG system. If you play a single player game, you can build explorers thoughout the game. But in multiplayer, it stops with chivalry. Don't know why, but it is just simply the way it is. Warriors upgrade to Pikemen, but explorers have no upgrade. anyway, that is just my 2 cents...you have any further questions, let me know

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Kaak
Tribe of the Divine

Pain is just fear leaving the body
To fail to try is the only true failure...

Smash · January 26, 2001, 17:29

Um...sorry but that is not true.I build explorerers to stack with alpines in MP.Thats long after Chivalry.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Smash (edited January 26, 2001).]</font>

DaveV · January 26, 2001, 17:36

My (completely unsolicited) two cents: I'm betting this has something to do with 2x movement. Curumbor's problem came when he doubled the explorer's movement in (I presume) a 1x1x game; Kaak and weird god are both GameLeaguers, where 2x2x is the preferred style of game.

Smash · January 26, 2001, 20:57

I've used it in 2x production games.Not 2x moves though cuz I won't play that.Maybe it is 2x moves but I don't see why.

I still don't think the rules.ger is the one being used.It can't be.It must be .txt to work..correct?

I've seen Curumbor's problem a few times in creation and S-league forums.It required removing the units 1 at a time to find the culprit.Then...geez...I don't remember.It could be worked out but it was fairly complicated.

weird god · February 5, 2001, 12:35

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by DaveV on 01-26-2001 04:36 PM</font>
Kaak and weird god are both GameLeaguers, where 2x2x is the preferred style of game.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

true, i always play 2x2x. but i doubt it´s possible that the bug is caused by this. any bug detections with 1x moving?

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god made weed.....you don´t really think he fails sometimes?

weed god, chief of EUROPA
visit EUROPA: www.multispieler.de

DaveV · February 5, 2001, 12:57

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by weird god on 02-05-2001 11:35 AM</font>
true, i always play 2x2x. but i doubt it´s possible that the bug is caused by this. any bug detections with 1x moving?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Not in any of my games. The reason I think it could be caused by 2x moves is that discovering Chivalry obsoletes all earlier 2-move attack units. Since the explorer has the attack role in rules.txt and it has 2 moves in 2x movement, it is one of the units obsoleted. Recall that a patch was required to keep the pikeman's defense from being applied against units with one move. This is similar behavior that they didn't patch.

weird god · February 13, 2001, 10:05

hmm, seems you are right.....at least we know now what causes this bug. but it still is ****ty - i love those conquistadors!!!