PBEM FAQ

flop · January 14, 2000, 18:35

zsozso,
thank you for starting up this thread. brilliant idea.
very well sofar and it does answer my first three questions.
Here's another one:
how do you usually make agreements on the time you'll spend playing? I imagine some folks play non-stop until the game is done, even if that takes days. Others may prefer playing one or two hours a day, others a couple hours a week and so on.

zsozso · January 14, 2000, 22:22

I presume, you were talking about single player game when said some folks play non-stop 'til the game is over. PBEM, being play-by-email pretty much predetermines a break-up for every turn. You play your turn, send the save off to the next player, then keep checking your email as you have time, and when the turn has come back, you play your next turn and so on.

As for arrangements, it depends on the game. E.g. for the tournament I set 48 hours time limit for a person to respond. Normally, it is much faster than that. With 2-3 human players, a 1 day turn-around is normal, i.e. everybody plays a turn every day. For 7 human player game you can expect something like 2-3 day turn around. Of course it also depends on the player's time zone and preferred playing time.

However, also be prepared for the downside: human players may lose interest in the game especially if they are not in good position - that never happens against the AI

Zsozso

zsozso · January 15, 2000, 01:43

There are some newbie PBEMers in the tournament who need some help, have questions. Therefore, an FAQ thread would be useful, so here we go.

I invite all PBEM newbies to post questions here!

I would like to ask experienced PBEM players, to please help answer the questions in this thread!

To kick-off I list some questions:

Q1. Who to load up a PBEM turn ?

A1. From the main menu, choose Multiplayer -> Hotseat/Play-bu-Email -> Load Multiplayer game.
Select the .SAV file you got from the previous player.
Enter your password, and voila, you can play your turn.

Q2. How to finish/save a PBEM turn ?
This is not so much a freqent question, but rather a frequently made mistake, that's why it is good to have it here...

A2. Do not save the game when the "Turn Complete" sign flashes in the game screen! Press enter or click on "Turn Complete", you will get a similar window that you had when you loaded the game (before your turn started) with text "NEXT PLAYER TURN" and the name and faction of the next player below that. It is asking for password again. However, now instead of typing your password, click on SAVE AND EXIT button and save the turn for the next player. Then email that off (you may want to zip it to save network bandwidth).

Q3. How diplomacy works in PBEM ?

A3. You can start communication in your turn, select what you offer and type in some text message below (e.g. telling the other party what you expect in return). Then press "end-transmission".
The other player will get the communication screen pop-up automatically at the beginning of his/her turn with your message and offer. That player can set the counter offerings and press "Accept" or request different things in text and continue negotiation.
Therefore the communication may drag through several turns. When both parties has accepted, they will receive whatever the other party has offered (techs, energy, map, treaty, pact etc.)

There are a lot of fine details about the communication that I do not want to go into now, but I do not mind if others add to this topic...

Zsozso

Spekter · January 15, 2000, 04:38

Quote:

Originally posted by zsozso on 01-14-2000 12:43 PM
Q3. How diplomacy works in PBEM ?

Is it considered rude or improper in some way to conduct diplomatic communications through regular emails? It would seem that this would probably make more involved diplomacy quicker.

Spek
[This message has been edited by Spekter (edited January 15, 2000).]

MichaeltheGreat · January 19, 2000, 05:58

No - not at all. The ingame messaging is of very limited effectiveness, and having been involved in a LOT of PBEM's as both player and CMN (over at ACOL), email communications are indispensible for effective diplomacy.

Especially for issues like reporting infiltrator data to pactmates, and coordinating research or military strategies.

My longest running PBEM is at 113 turns, and coming to a close. With two other pacted players, and one bullied into a submissive neutral, we have exchanged on the order of 350 emails, including replies from all parties. If coop victory is enabled, and to a lesser extent if it isn't, communication and diplomacy are essential aspects of the game. It also adds an additional layer of complexity and fun that you don't have in IP games.

Blunderdog · January 19, 2000, 19:09

I've had this answered for me, but my fellow PBEM newbies might find it worthwhile:

Q:How is it that I can contact and negotiate with all the factions yet not be able to summon the council?

A: (I think) Although you can negotiate, you don't really have the other factions' commlink frequencies. You get them like you do in single-player, i.e. contact in the field, buy it from another faction, find it in a Unity pod, or build the Empath Guild.

[This message has been edited by Blunderdog (edited January 20, 2000).]

MichaeltheGreat · January 20, 2000, 00:39

There is an occasional bug in PBEM communications, which I experienced in one game - I had all frequencies, obtained in the normal manner, and had diplomatic relations with all parties, but was unable to summon council. One of my pactmates was able to do so, but three of the faction contacts he received were gifted by me.

We were able to duplicate this, but never figure what the problem was. I have a similar problem much later in the same game where I am unable to turn over units to a pactmate, despite taking steps to verify that nothing in our diplomatic status would prevent such a turnover.

Luckily, these problems are quite rare, appearing only in that single PBEM in my experience, and rarely or not at all for other players. Still, it does occur every so often.

flop · January 29, 2000, 21:56

hi there,
is it possible to convert PBEM games into TCP/IP-multiplayer games and vice versa. This would be very practical because the players of a PBEM game could meet every once in a while and continue their game in multiplayer mode, thus playing very much faster than before. Later, the game can be continued as PBEM and so on at convenience.
Anyone knows?

ChrisShaffer · January 30, 2000, 10:09

You can solve the "unable to call a council" bug by having another player who has all the commlinks choose "give all technology." The game will list the commlinks of all the factions the computer incorrectly thinks the receiving player does not have. The gifting player then, of course, can delete out the technologies and map if they don't want to give those also :-)

January 31, 2000, 12:19

flop -

You sure can! What you need to do is to go multiplayer, TCP/IP and then when the new game screen loads up, under "Type of Game" select load game. You then would load in the hotseat game you had been playing before.

Similarly, you can continue a LAN (and probably a TCP/IP, but I've never tried) game in hotseat mode by starting up a hotseat game and loading up the save from your LAN game.

I would imagine that in both circumstances, things may be a bit fuzzy regarding the initial turn that it taken. For instance, if you were The Spartans and your opponent was Gaia, then Gaia goes first in the turn. If you received a save from the Gaia player in hotseat and used that save to begin a LAN game, then it's entirely possible that Gaia will get an extra turn compared to you when you begin (i.e., if the save occured on MY 2150, Gaia gets the 2150 turn before sending you the save, and then goes again in 2150 once the game is started in LAN mode). I haven't played around with it enough to know if this is what occurs, though.

I hope this helps you (and others) out. It isn't a real obvious way to do things (it took me a bit to figure it out), but it sure helps speed up those first turns of a hotseat game.

-warp
[This message has been edited by warpage (edited January 31, 2000).]

Misotu · February 10, 2000, 18:49

I have a question about loading the game.

Once I've loaded, played my turn and sent it off to the next person, can I reload an earlier turn just to look at my general situation (techs researched/lab per turn/whatever). Or does *anything* count as a double-load? Because er, if it does, then I did it. :-(

I understand I can't load an uncompleted turn twice. But once I've sent the game off, this can't be a problem, can it?

- Mis

zsozso · February 10, 2000, 20:36

Don't worry Mis. Once you sent off the turn, the game will not send another email after it to tell the others, you cheated...

Seriously, loading after you played and sent it off is not a cheat.

Zsozso

Misotu · February 11, 2000, 10:48

Thanks for the reply Zsozso.

I'm very relieved because ... er ... I already have one double-load thingy due to technical incompetence and stupidity ...

I just thought that two of those in three turns might look a little, um, suspect. :-)

regards
- Mis

Sarxis · March 6, 2000, 01:32

I have been playing a pbem game with someone for a while. Usually what we do is play by e-mail for a week or so, then we get together to play the same game as a multiplayer game. The problem we discovered is that when we open the save file to load as a MP game, all of the human units were not able to move for the first year; it was as if they had already been moved during the first MP game turn. I figured that this was probably caused from the game being saved 'in between' our turns while we played it as a pbem. I then suggested that we open the file and recieve it during one of our turns and THEN load it as a MP game, and it kind of worked- the other player's units could be moved in the first year, but my units were already moved!
Anyone familiar with this problem and have a solution, or suggestions for it?

Misotu · March 7, 2000, 11:14

We just had a strange situation in our PBEM game. One faction summoned the council and voted for himself as leader. The next faction voted for me. But when it came to my vote, I could only vote for one of the other two, and not for myself.

Can anyone tell me

Q: How does the game determine which candidates are available for election?

Q: Could the selection criteria explain how different players might see different candidates?

Thanks
- Mis

Misotu · March 7, 2000, 16:14

I have another question ... how do you cancel a treaty in PBEM? I can't see any way of doing it. I can cancel a pact, but not a treaty ...

Thanks

- Mis

Sarxis · March 7, 2000, 21:44

Only the two factions with the highest vote counts are eligible for election.

I don't believe there is a way to cancel a treaty except by hostile action or when an AI faction asks you to do so in exchange for 'friendship'.

WhiteElephants · March 8, 2000, 20:29

I was wondering what kind of settings PBEM games use. Blind research? Tech stagnation? Huge Map? Get a tech when you take a base? Unity Pod scattered?

Enigma · March 8, 2000, 21:21

Read the PBEM rules that zsozso posted along time ago for details. Most of these are on a 66x66 map with large poles and 3 duplicate islands on equator. Directed research, and no cooperative victory. Everything else is standard.

WhiteElephants · March 8, 2000, 21:34

What about non-tournament games?

Misotu · March 9, 2000, 01:35

OK, so I'm not being stupid about treaties. That's annoying :-(

Regarding the council vote, it looks like the nominees aren't fixed in PBEM. I've now found out that the faction who voted for me subsequently built a new base in the same turn. Presumably, this just pushed them ahead of me in population, so when I received the game, the nominees had changed.

This should definitely count as a bug. Once the elections begin, the nominees should be fixed. Oh well ...

- Mis

Grigger · March 9, 2000, 19:17

WhiteElephant: Whatever you want, it'll let you choose as you start it up.
Anunikoba: You may try this, have it saved before the second player hits end turn but after he/she's moved their units.

Myronides · March 11, 2000, 06:40

I try to load a save file a fellow player sent me, and i get the message "Not a valid save/map file". I can't imagine what could that mean. We worked a lot to get in M.Y. 2129 in ACT011 for this to happen now, so plese, anyone, help!

Myronides · March 12, 2000, 07:53

My fellow player mailed the turn once more, and this time everything is O.K. Thanks.

MichaeltheGreat · March 13, 2000, 04:24

CANCELLING TREATIES IN MULTIPLAYER:

This is not always possible, but the faction AI is active in the background for human factions in certain diplomatic situations. Often, using the right-click menu from commlinks to "demand withdrawal" of enemy units will result in the background AI declaring vendetta, which the players can then amend to a truce. This depends on the AI attitude toward the other faction, which is independent of actual exchanges and gifts made by the human players.

The AI attitude is influenced by relative powerbar strength, compatibility of SE choices, prior violations and reputation, and inherent hostility of faction pairs such as UoP-Believers, Hive-PK, and Spartan-Morgan. In some cases, you'll get the wimpy "but I have no units in your territory" or "the {dumbass faction} appears to have complied" messages, the latter if they were actually slinking around in your territory.

Depending on the rules/settings for how often you can make SE changes, you may be able to make an SE choice (say to Free Market to piss off Deidre), demand withdrawal, get your treaty ended, then switch back. If the SE change rules/settings for your multiplayer game do not allow unrestricted SE choices, then this is a cheat.

Misotu · March 14, 2000, 17:49

This is a question for Tau Ceti. I recently started a SMAX PBEM as the Angels and I was surprised to find that they didn't have Planetary Networks.

I realise that the game has been set up so that everyone starts with all the level 1 techs, but The University still gets its free tech on turn 1, so I assumed that the Angels would still have PN.

Without it, the Angels' two main advantages are gone - they can't run planned from day one and they can't infiltrate early before the other factions get their probes in place.

Since the free facilities (nodes for UoP, perimeters for Hive etc) are still available, seems that the Angels have really been scuppered. All they have left is their ability to get a tech known to three other factions - once they've scraped together enough points to research both PN *and* flexibility!

regards
- Mis

Tau Ceti · March 14, 2000, 18:20

Misotu, the starting tech question was brought up by Zsozso earlier, and it was generally agreed upon (at least through a lack of objections) that all factions would simply start with all level 1 techs. The affected factions are the Angels, the Hive (who do not get Doctrine: Loyalty) and the Pirates (who do not get Doctrine: Flexibility). Also, everyone starts with the same units; the Spartans do not get scout rovers instead of patrols, the Angels do not get their extra probe team and the Cult (though nobody wants to play them) would not get the extra Mind Worm. That, at least, was my understanding.

The University's free tech is a separate ability and could only be removed by modifying univ.txt. In the same fashion, the free Network Nodes and Perimeter defenses are separate abilities and could only be removed in the same way. The starting techs are a different matter.

While you could certainly say that some factions have got a better deal than others (and I think the Pirates have it even worse, starting in the middle of an island with no Flexibility), it was felt, I believe, that this would create the most level playing field. That is the best answer I can give you at the moment. Also, I would not underestimate the techshare ability with the fairly large Progenitors at the poles. And they will get their Covert Ops Centres on the discovery of Pre-Sentient Algorithms.

While I do not think that the ability to run Planned economics early is an integral part of the Angels' faction profile, the Probe Teams certainly are. I also think that Doctrine: Loyalty is quite an important part of Hive 'culture' (Police State and Perim. Def.), and most of all Flexibility for the Pirates. Therefore, I was originally in favour of giving these factions their normal starting techs in addition. However, it could be viewed as unbalancing, I did not call the shots at the time, and I did not care that much one way or the other. Now that the games have already started the way they have, it kind of ties things up, as I would not want to arbitrarily change the setup from one game to the next. However, I can certainly be convinced to change this, and I would like to hear what others think.

Misotu · March 14, 2000, 19:14

Hi Tau Ceti

Thanks for your reply. I've only just started playing by email, so apologies if I'm re-running an old discussion.

I did read the admin thread, and it says that all the factions get level 1 techs, but doesn't mention the fact that starting techs at level 2 are not given, so it just came as a bit of a shock! (Glad I didn't pick the pirates!) I think there's a strong case for reconsidering for future games or if not, future tournaments.

I don't know about the Hive - their research rate is very slow and so getting all the level 1 techs is a fair old boost for them anyway.

I think there's a case to be made for the Pirates and Angels retaining their starting techs, particularly in view of the fact that the University still gets a free tech on day 1. Given this, I don't see how it could be considered unbalancing.

Your comment about the techshare abilities with the Aliens is a fair one so I think I agree with you that the Pirates are the most disadvantaged by this arrangement.

Anyway, I'm still enjoying the game

Thanks for the explanation.

- Mis

MichaeltheGreat · March 15, 2000, 04:30

Misotu - I'm playing Hive in two of these games, (ACT005 and ACT016) and UoP in one (the stalled ACT008). The UoP when I played it didn't get a free tech - it gets a slightly lower initial tech cost, reflecting that one of the initial techs was "free." The Hive loses the initial ability to do Command Nexus off the bat, but I'm leading as the Hive in both my games, so it wasn't an issue.

For the Angels, even though I'm not playing them (I'm not doing any Xfire games), I don't see a problem - the other factions will be founding bases early on, and it's still a bit of time before they'll prioritize defensive probes. Besides, you can always sacrifice a couple of probes to take out the defensive one, then use three or four more to repeatedly hit the same base. Nobody can stop the determined use of probe teams until they can invade you in force and give you something else to worry about.

Tau Ceti · March 15, 2000, 15:59

MtG: I am quite certain that you did get the free tech. I set up the game, I still have the save, and I just checked

. As far as I know the only way you would not get it would be if I edited univ.txt to remove the bonus. The University gets BOTH a bonus tech and reduced tech cost.