Turns of ACT021 game, second thread - Page 4

Garth Vader · October 31, 2000, 21:05

Ok, so I loaded my turn, eliminated Mark, got the captured faction leader screen. I expected all that. But then I got the captured leader screen again, then my score, then the game replay, then the password box for my turn. I entered my password and nothing happened.

I have never eliminated anybody in MP. Is this normal?? What should I do?

Misotu · October 31, 2000, 21:52

Urk ... no, I'm sure this shouldn't happen. Maybe we need to call Tau Ceti in?

Edit to add that I've been in games where players were eliminated, and this *didn't* happen. I wonder if me calling the election was what caused it? Mark had a vote when I called it, but of course he doesn't now ... I wonder ...
[This message has been edited by Misotu (edited October 31, 2000).]

mark13 · November 1, 2000, 05:48

Oh great, I get a vote!

Oh dear - that definitely shouldn't happen, I've been in hotseat games in which one faction has been eliminated, and it just didn't come to their turn next time around.....

Garth Vader · November 1, 2000, 10:42

Well, Hmm. Mis you could try and do your last turn again, without calling a vote. Mail the turn with a different name. I'll try this turn again when I get home and if it still doesn't work I'll try the new one that you mail me.

Misotu · November 1, 2000, 11:38

Garth:

I have sent you a turn to both your email addys to try quickly. THIS IS NOT MY TURN!!!!!

I want to be really clear about this

My last turn was complicated to play and I'm pushed for time this morning, so all I've done is clicked end of turn, didn't move anything at all. But it will enable you to find out whether the game still ends when you take Morgan's base, or if it is the council that's causing the problem. If it's the council, let me know and I'll replay my turn (gnash) without calling the vote.

I've been thinking about this. Every game I've played in the tourny so far has ended when one of the human players was knocked out, and we had to organise an artificial situation in order to continue the game.

The reason why I didn't think about this was because so far it has only happened with the three-player tourny map. So in my mind, it was a bug associated with that particular map ... but now it looks like it's a more general problem.

ACT011, ACT018 and ACT003 all ended when a human player's last base fell, despite the fact that two players remained. ACT018 was about 2 turns away from being done anyhow, so we ended the game.

With the other two, we had to maintain the player's last base, rather than taking it. To save time, one of the remaining players was given the "deceased" player's password, and played the turn immediately before or after their own. The base was set to stockpile energy, units were disbanded, all workers not necessary to keep the base in a stagnant state were changed to doctors. We maintained a garrison or 2 (and in one game we built a perimeter) so that the base would not be destroyed by mindworms.

Pacts/treaties were cancelled so no-one received trade income.

It sounds to me like this is what we'll have to do in this game, too. If so, it's a bummer for Garth because it means that he loses a base ...

Garth Vader · November 1, 2000, 19:47

I sent this message to Misotu.

Replay it. It still screwed up, but when I got the save dialog in the middle of my turn I saved it for the Believers then loaded that saved game.

I tried your election one like the same way and it was messed up. When I loaded my mid-turn save the map was MESSED up. All my units were in their current location, but the bases were the size and placement of about 50 turns ago, and the names were randomized. But the non-election one turned out fine.

Misotu · November 1, 2000, 22:15

Turn replayed and sent to Garth. Hope it works

Garth Vader · November 2, 2000, 00:01

Ok, I had to load the turn about a hundred times to finally get through it but it's off the the Gaians.

Believer Official Announcement

Elite zealots marched into the HQ of the Morgans today. Their elimination was assured by their own destruction of their other two remaining bases. We respect any people who will sacrifice themselves for their cause. It shows a fanaticism that we respect, even if we don't agree with their cause.

In other news multiple Gaian units were discovered in Believer territory. Rest assured any incursion will be dealt with.

WhiteElephants · November 3, 2000, 00:34

Hey, gang, who gets this next turn? Mark or Mistou? I will need Mis's email adress if she is the one who gets it.

Misotu · November 3, 2000, 00:46

It's me, and my email address is misotu@hotmail.com

(BTW, everyone's email addresses are always detailed in the first post of the first game thread)

cheers, Mis

Misotu · November 3, 2000, 00:48

Well ... I say it's me because I'm assuming that Mark is done. Didn't it come up saying Misotu at the end of the turn you played? If not ... then you may have to send it to Mark, um, ...

If you're not sure, load the turn again and just press end of turn and then OK when it says your units haven't moved - it'll tell you who plays next.

Edited to repeat email addy: misotu@hotmail.com because it's started a new page and you might not realise there's a previous post ...
[This message has been edited by Misotu (edited November 02, 2000).]

Misotu · November 3, 2000, 15:00

Hi, just posting to let you guys know that I'll be away for the weekend, so I don't expect to be able to play any turns until Sunday/Monday. Apologies for the delay this will cause.
cheers, Mis

WhiteElephants · November 4, 2000, 00:15

Turn to Misotu.

Misotu · November 6, 2000, 11:22

2181 sent to Garth.

Garth Vader · November 6, 2000, 20:28

Turn to Gaians.

WhiteElephants · November 6, 2000, 20:42

Turn 2182 to Misotu.

Misotu · November 6, 2000, 21:57

Very brief postings ... things are getting serious

2182 to the Believers.
[This message has been edited by Misotu (edited November 06, 2000).]

Garth Vader · November 6, 2000, 22:20

Turn to Gaians. Nice turn around there too!

WhiteElephants · November 7, 2000, 03:44

Turn to Misotu.

mark13 · November 7, 2000, 08:54

Oh, come on, this is no fun for us lurkers!

Misotu · November 7, 2000, 14:03

LOL. Just for you Mark

*************************************

Following the successful liberation of a Gaian city last year, elite tractor units were this year poised to bring happiness and advanced farming methods to a further Gaian enclave. It appears, however, that the Gaians place as little value on the lives of their citizens as did the infamous Morgan. The base was destroyed, and all inhabitants put to the sword, by their own rulers. Imagine our horror.

Spartan rule appears to be popular with almost everyone - the Hive have signed a treaty and we look forward to decades of prosperity once the tree-hugging worm-lovers have seen the light.

Citizens in Memory of Earth have sent desperate pleas for protection - it is our intention to respond. The garrison unit, which was poised to murder the civilian population, has been destroyed. We can only pray that we are in time to save the innocents ...

(pauses to adjust halo)

2183 sent to the Devout Ones.

Garth Vader · November 7, 2000, 20:03

Turn to Gaians.

Believer Official announcement

Elite Believer zealots marched into Gaia's Landing today under the cover of the vaunted Believer Air Fleet. Our forces have been pleased by the welcome they have received from the Gaian people. The population has converted so readily that we have not yet had to use the "Special" features of our bombers to purify anybody.

At this time we would like to thank our Spartan sisters for all their support for our cause. We could not have done this without them. The Lord has blessed us all today.

Misotu · November 7, 2000, 21:59

Hallelujah! Praise be to the Lord and advanced irrigation.

Sister Plantswoman

WhiteElephants · November 8, 2000, 00:51

Turn 2184 to Misotu.

Hey gang, I'm ready to throw in the towel if you two don't mind. I don't have a chance and I'm sure Misotu, with the Empath Guild, can attest to that. So of your reading this Mark13 don't feel too bad I only lasted a few turns after you as I was just as, if not more, unprepared for a war as you.

So any advice to a new player? I think I over expanded and didn't focus enough on conquer techs and units. I should have known starting so close to the Believers that it was coming soon or later. I just hoped it would be later. I'd appreciate any advice.

Misotu · November 8, 2000, 01:58

No problem WE. I think you're right - we're in a very strong position and without air power it's hard to see what you can do from here.

Regarding strategy - it's difficult for me to say much, since I didn't have you infiltrated until the last few turns so your game - and Morgan's - was not visible to me. I'm not sure that you over-expanded, but you could perhaps have paid a little more attention to defence around the edges of your empire.

In a game like this - 2 builders vs 2 momentum factions - it's key that the builders get to air power as fast as possible in my experience. If the momentum alliance gets there first, you've had it

Perhaps with hindsight the builder alliance could have done something to get there sooner?

I don't think the map favoured the builders - no real natural barrier for defence and sandwiched between two momentum players. Having said that, Garth and I were very pessimistic about our chances right up until the last 10-20 years or so.

In the end though, Garth played his techs very well ... just kept researching steadily in the background and was a few turns from discovering something when we started to steal a lot of stuff from you guys, enabling him to switch to air power and get it before you and Morgan. That was the killer.

Thanks to you and Mark13 for a good game, and thanks to Garth for being a truly excellent pactmate

[This message has been edited by Misotu (edited November 08, 2000).]

mark13 · November 8, 2000, 10:23

WE,
To be honest, I knew the game was up when Garth first went for me - there weren't a lot of military units when I took over and I should have done far more to build it up. Confrontation between me and Garth was inevitable - I saw it coming and didn't do enough to make sure I could hold my own. (Two missile rovers didn't quite cut the mustard, somehow

)

Mis,
Getting to air power was a #1 priority, but I had to settle for Intellectual Integrity first time, and second time was too late. Had I been able to hold on for D:AP WE maybe would have had half a chance, but I didn't, and he had no chance, being the filling in a momentum sandwich.

A couple of problems with my game:
a) I really don't have much experience with the Morganites, and as far as I could see a couple of the bases were awkwardly placed. You've got to have territory with Morgan - breathing room, which we lacked severely.

b) I had several military units stacked on the border. Why, oh why didn't I seperate them? I saw the attack coming, and did nothing - when you do that, you are in serious mire. I guess that was inexperience on my part - next time I'll know better.

I think this whole game has been part of a particularly steep learning curve - this was my first serious PBEM, and I failed badly. Oh well, as I said, I'll know not to do it next time.

But extremely well done for a good game to everyone, not least WhiteElephants for not totally laying into me for not defending adequately against Garth.

Garth Vader · November 8, 2000, 11:05

Ok, my 2 cents. I can't say how either of you should have played because I didn't have WE infiltraited ever, and Mark only on the turn that I first attacked. So I will recount the game from my perspective.

If possible the Gaians should have attacked me early. Before I basically surrendered to Mis I had nothing I didn't have planetary networks, Non linear math, industrial auto. I couldn't research worth a damn and between the AI and the worms attacking I lost some bases never mind expanding. My power graph was so small I couldn't even see it.

So if you remember (I know mark wasn't here yet) I posted a message here saying that I would basically surrender myself to anyone who would take me as an ally. Mis took me, gave me planetary networks, industrial auto, and a bunch more techs. I stole a Hive impact unit to get that weapon and started building units.

Mark moved a force to my border I expected an invasion, at that time I had basically no ability to defend and expected to die. Mark didn't invade, but just kept stacking units on my border and when I had enough impact rovers I hit his stack and kept going.

My advice is always to be a little more aggressive in the early game. But then again that is my style. It's tough to give Mark advice because he was the third player for Morgan and that's gotta be tough.

One question, I forgot what probe activities I was immune to when at +3 probe, could you still infiltrate and steal tech?

mark13 · November 8, 2000, 11:22

Garth,

When I took the game over in 2166 or whatever it was, all I could see of you was an outpost and a scout patrol. I saw I had several units on our border, so I thought, garrison. Another base appeared, and nothing happened. Simpson II told me that conflict would occur, but basically not to instigate it until I had D:AP. Of course, this was not forthcoming in the subsequent turns, so I had to stall. Why I didn't seperate the units God only knows, but they were sitting ducks for several impact rovers. Strike one.

I was producing two missile rovers, thinking it would act as a second line of defense. Of course, they stood no chance against the number of troops you brought over. Strike two.

I had tried to ensure I would get to D:AP, only failed to max out research when I needed to most. Strike three, you're out.

It isn't easy being the third player of a particular faction, especially when the three players were pursuing totally different strategies, from what I could see. Bustamike was playing a very isolationist game, Simpson played a more defensive game, and I just messed up.

I should have done a lot more to defend, I know that, an invasion was inevitable. In truth, had I known about the inferiority of your position when I took over, I would have attacked sooner. I didn't, so I didn't.

BTW, +3 probe gives you immunity against subversion, and makes infiltration and other pt operations a lot harder, IIRC.

Misotu · November 8, 2000, 11:45

You know, it's always interesting finding out what other players thought at different points in the game. Here's an insight for you ... when Garth spotted Mark's "several military units" he basically contacted me and said something like: Morgan has a huge attack force right on my border. I am finished - he's not likely to hold off for the 3 or 4 turns I need to attack first.

In our terms, the force was indeed huge and with better weapons too (missile I think). We didn't even have the tech for impact weapons then - Garth could build them because he'd just bribed a Hive rover, but I couldn't. So I was stuck with (ahem) LASER rovers and was still around 8 turns from discovering impact weapons. We were absolutely *desperate*

Had either of you managed to infiltrate either of us at this point? We had not infiltrated either of you then.

We had a few email exchanges, trying to work out what to do. It seemed clear that Morgan was on the attack. Plan A was how much Garth could give me before he was wiped out. Plan B was trying to keep Garth alive to mount a counter-attack, and that's what we decided to do. I couldn't see how I could take on both Gaians and Morgans alone, plus my war with the PKs, if Morgan got Garth's bases in the Flats ... Laser vs missile??? Not a hope

If Mark had not put that force on the border and convinced us that he was on the move, our attack would have been delayed considerably as we just didn't think we were ready. Our idea was a pincer movement against Morgan - but a Spartan attack force armed with lasers seemed ridiculous

So we were waiting for me to get impact ... and that wait would possibly have been enough for you guys to get to air power before us ...

Food for thought, eh?

Mark: I still think that maybe the Gaian/Morgan axis could have got to air power a little faster - don't forget that there were two former Morgans before you. I was really thinking about the fundamental approach to the game, not the choices you made at the point when you arrived - by then, there wasn't much you could do to change the basics already laid down. I don't know how much the various Gaian/Morgan partnerships prioritised research facilities/energy production in the earlier game.

What I *do* know is that I got a load of dross from my pact with UoP - completely stuffed me as far as researching anything useful in the early game, and could easily have cost us the game because of the length of time I took to get to impact.

I have a question ... which of you bribed the Hive to maintain a vendetta against the Believers? I found out about this just before the game ended - the Hive said they wouldn't call it off because they'd been paid, but of course they don't tell you who did the paying

Also, when you bribed them, were you at vendetta with the Believers or ... ? I'm interested to know whether a human player receives a notification if someone they are pacted/treated with bribes an AI to declare vendetta ...

Garth Vader · November 8, 2000, 12:58

I didn't get any notification of bribery. I was suspicious about it though because I was at peace then suddenly the Hive declared war. At first I thought it was just Yang being Yang, but he wouldn't even talk to me even after I destroyed a base.

I suspected Morgan because they were pacted with the Hive. It was a good move whichever Morgan actually did it

Just about every unit that I sent into Morgan territory had to kill a Hive unit along the way.