Ladders - Page 3

Keygen · December 26, 2000, 09:58

Yeah, sure I could help but I think it would be better to have a more experienced player to help us like Tau Seti or Misotu.
Send me info about the current CTP rating system.
And ...I hope you bought Alpha Centauri

.

Solver · December 26, 2000, 10:15

Quinns, I think that these rated games should be more of a trial rather than a real rating system, but finally we're going on here. Keygen, you be the one to make the proposal for the others, as we're busy enough with CTP already.
I'm rabbing my palms in impacience to be CtP/AC PBEM Ladder Administrator and take the first decisions here

. And all this stuff going on leads me to a decision: time to get my SMAC CD back, and go into a few PBEM games. Even though haven't played it for most of 2000, I bet I'd yet be able to kick someone here and earn some rating points.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Keygen · December 27, 2000, 05:12

Yeah, I could start a new PBEM for you two SMAC PBEM newbies

.
Well, I am new to SMAC PBEM too and I could start one with me, you, Quinns (when he gets SMAC) and a couple more players.

Solver · December 27, 2000, 08:45

Thanks for the proposal, this will give the system a good try.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Googlie · December 27, 2000, 14:01

Solver and quinns:

I think that the jury is still very much out on this one, waiting to see exactly how "ranking" in ten year increments will be determined.

Let me give a couple of examples (and maybe you need to have played some smac PBEM's to get the flavor):

I'm in 16 games right now, pacted in maybe half of them (three are team games)

my pactmates and I are co-ordinating research, fast tracking to a specific technology some six to eight techs away on the tech tree

The rate at which you discover techs is impacted by (among others) how many techs you currently have researched

So we will not automatically trade to each other every tech we have ourselves researched (why take a tech before we need it to build a specific faciltiy in a base when that tech will only slow the research rate for the other techs)

Other players in those games may not necessarily be following that tactic, and might be trading techs willy nilly.

They therefore at turns 9,19 and 29 will be far in advance of us in the various graphs thru their tech swapping, but in reality (IMO) we are managing our factions better. How would that be accounted for in the periodic ranking charts issued - or was it never an issue in CtP?

Second example:

I have Industrial Automation (allows one to build and use crawlers) and every base is churning out crawlers.

I am neglecting base facilities and combat units, so my smac periodic score is low. One turn I cash in those crawlers for a Secret Project, worth oodles in the smac ratings. So, say, in turns 19,29 and 39 I am weakest in the graphs, but if my SP is, say, the Civil Defense Force, with its contribution to a facility in every base, defensive bonus and the SP points themselves I may jump to # 3 or 2 in one turn.

How can this be recognized during the "crawler accumulation" phase - or doesn't it matter?

As I say, we need to use this thread to air all the factors that players feel should be recognized and let you guys postulate a formula for debate and fine tuning.

But I do think you need to immerse yourselves in smac for a time to gain perspective - and joining some pbems is good (but a lengthy process) - an IP game or two would fast track you.

Just my thoughts today from sunny Palm Springs, California (where it's again 75 degrees today)

Googlie

[This message has been edited by Googlie (edited December 27, 2000).]

Solver · December 28, 2000, 09:46

I am an experienced SMAC (and basically, all Civ games) player. Quinns, crawler is a unit you place on the map, where resources are, and it gives the base you produced it at extra resources, thus many Crawlers is real power.
Goolgie is right by many means, we need to look at different possible problems, but I yet think we'll be taking the AC score instead of the powergraph as a measure.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

quinns · December 28, 2000, 16:56

Well I DID get SMAC for Christmas... YAY! You are all right, it is quite complicated. I just started reading the 2000 page instruction manual,

and I'm pretty lost. I think I'll just start a game and refer to the manual when I get confused... which I'm sure will be quite often

.

I'll let you all know if I come up with any good ideas on translating SMAC into the existing CTP rating system.

Thanks, Solver, for your explanations of some of the workings of SMAC.

edit: Oh, and Keygen, sure... start it up! I think I'll learn faster if I play a PBEM game of SMAC. It will force me to learn the rules better because I HATE to lose -- (who doesn't

)
[This message has been edited by quinns (edited December 28, 2000).]

Googlie · December 28, 2000, 23:07

quinns:

a good guide to get is Vel's Strategy Guide - Vel is a legend here at the AC site.

You can download it from the "what's new" page of The Spartan Chronicles website:

http://clik.to/sparta

or:

http://go.to/googlie

Cheers

[This message has been edited by Googlie (edited December 28, 2000).]

quinns · December 30, 2000, 14:56

Thanks Googlie. I downloaded Vel's Guide. Thanks a lot! ANOTHER book to read on AC!!

Actually, I skimmed through it and it seems pretty helpful. Thanks.

I played the Quick Start and found myself at the top of the heap in about 50 to 60 turns, by just kind of guessing. So I think I'll move on to a harder level. I'm sure that I'm missing a lot, and that PBEM will be much harder.

Keygen · January 1, 2001, 11:19

I'll start a PBEM SMAC or SMACX game in a couple of weeks Quinns and Solver. So get trained well!
I hope two weeks are not long time

.

Solver · January 2, 2001, 01:11

I need no training - have beaten Transcend. I would like this is less than a week, but let it be. I have SMAC, not SMACX, fav factions are Gaians and the University, even though I like Spacers, a custom faction, too.
I'm looking forward to it.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Keygen · January 3, 2001, 15:05

Sorry, Solver I just have to much things to do first

.
And Yesterday I began testing Lotus' buggy Workflow at work! Damn man, so many bugs!

Good news guys!!!
Keygen's Classic and Keygen's Alien Crossfire will be the first PBEM games to be rated by the Ladders, when they will be ready (make good preparation, but harry up!).

Keygen · January 3, 2001, 15:37

Sorry, Solver I just have to much things to do first

.
And Yesterday I began testing Lotus' buggy Domino Workflow at work! Damn man, so many bugs!

Good news guys!!!
Keygen's Classic and Keygen's Alien Crossfire will be the first PBEM games to be rated by the Ladders, when they will be ready (make good preparation, but harry up!).

[This message has been edited by Keygen (edited January 03, 2001).]

Solver · January 4, 2001, 10:23

I'm getting the Alien Crossfire for SMAC in less than a week, probably, so I'll be ready to play it. However, I'll need practice with the new factions, especially Drones.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Solver · January 4, 2001, 10:32

And, what do I need to play PBEM? A patch, like with CtP, or just the game?

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Rynn: · January 4, 2001, 22:07

just the game - Multiplayer is a menu choice when you are loading.

You might want to download the v2.0 patch for SMAX, tho, as most players on these boards will have it installed - cleans up some bugs. You can get it from Apolyton's download section.

Rynn

Keygen · January 6, 2001, 08:02

You will need SMACX Patch 2.0 because I have it installed

or SMAC Patch 4.0 if you won't buy SMACX after all.

Damn, I though I had post a reply 2 days ago...

Solver · January 6, 2001, 11:38

Are the patches available at Firaxis, I hope?

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Keygen · January 6, 2001, 20:37

Don't go far. They are here, in Apolyton too

.

Solver · January 17, 2001, 11:41

Keygen, where's the new PBEM game you promised to create, and put me into it. Note that Quinns doesn't want to play SMAC, and I now with your help have SMAX, so I'm rabbing my palms in impatience to have the game started.
And, the rating system isn't dead at all. I would like to make the game you are going to make the first rated one, but for this I need the highest level you've ever beaten, with 14 points for Citizen, 16 for Specialist, 19 for Thinker, 21 for Transcend. My rating is 21, as I have beaten Trans.
Come on, Keygen!

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Keygen · January 17, 2001, 16:50

Yeah, you're right Solver. I am a bit late. I haven't forgotten about it just busy with the Keygen's Series

I have posted a topic under the title "Who's the Best" looking for the best players. I was thinking of picking some players from there

I don't remember what was the hardest level ever beaten the AI when I had played SMAC on the first place.
After at list a year I played on Librarian level but never ended it. SMAC takes more time to complete than CTP.
I guess I will have to finish a game to see my level. I'll try Transcendence first

Pity Quinns won't join

I will email Googlie and Misotu who are "warm" with the rating system. The rest as I said will be challenged from the above topic mentioned.

Solver · January 18, 2001, 09:37

Nice you haven't forgot about me. My intention then is to fight the system alone, with Quinns only performing the calculations. Yes, you will have to beat the level to get rating, as it was with your CTP Deity game. Well, I don't quite care much who will be the others to play in the first rated game, I just want it to be rated, and to have fun with playing.
My preferences:
Large map with about 50% water, no random events (I hate sunspot), any native levels, favorite factions are Univ. and Gaia under SMAC, with Aki-Zeta and Cha'Dawn adding in the SMAX.
Will we get up

?

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

quinns · January 20, 2001, 11:34

Sorry Keygen and Solver. I just couldn't get into the storyline. United Nations colony ship crash lands on one of Alpha Centauri's planets, scattering technology pods all over the planet. Then it's population splits into seven ideological factions. I guess it would be possible... just can't get into it. Sorry, I did try.

Good luck on the rating system here. I will gladly "only do the calculations" as Solver so graciously put it. (If you think it's so damn easy to do the calculations, then YOU DO IT SOLVER!

)

Quinns

Solver · January 20, 2001, 11:55

Quinns, I do not state it's easy

, and really a pity that you didn't get into it. And hard to believe for me this is under way!

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Solver · January 20, 2001, 12:19

As several players have agreed to be rated (two rated games under way currently), I announce the following information:
The ratings are taken by the AC score of the players, each ten turns. To simplify the system, those are M.Y. than end with 0 (2110, 2350, etc.). Then, if a game is at M.Y. 2134, when the players agree to be rated, the first ratings are taken at 2140, then at 2150. During the progress of rated turn, each player posts his AC score. I would be thankful if the score is posted at the respective ratings thread (there will be threads named like SMAC PBEM Ratings (date)). After that, I do the pre-processing of data, and send it to Quinns for calculations.

Initial ratings for the players: this depends on the highest SMAC/X AI level ever defeated by the player as follows: Citizen = 14, Specialist = 16, Talent - 17, Librarian = 18, Thinker = 19, Transcend = 21.

Delinquency rule:
If a player doesn't play his turn in 24 hours, he is delinquent, and gets a next-turn from the previous play, to send the turn to the next one. Each time a delinquency occurs, the player loses 0.1 (one tenth) rating points. If there's explanation present either on the forum or in my mailbox, no penalty is applied. Explanation include things like lost Internet connection, Windows problems, etc.
As in CtP, I have no time to monitor all of the rated games, so please, when a player is delinquent either post the fact at the respective ratings thread, or email that to me. Know this sounds terrible, but as experience shows, it ain't that hard

.
Substitutes:
If a player takes a substitute at M.Y. 2135, then, when the ratings are taken for 2130-2140, they will be given to the original player. Ratings 2140-2150 will be given to the substitute, and so on, till the original player comes back.

Rating a game:
To rate a game, at least 3 players must agree for the specific game to be rated. Players might continue to play unrated in any game, then they will be not counted in during calculations.
When a new game is rated, the game moderator (usually the game starter) should post it at the current ratings thread or email to me.

Elimination Rule:
Idea by Quinns.
If a player is:
a) Eliminated
b) Changes status in the game from rated to unrated
c) Gets end-turned three times in a row with no explanation,
then each remaining player defeats him 3 times.

Transcend Rule:
If a player completes the Ascent to Transcendence sequence, he defeats each remaining player three times.

Comments and Questions:
Anything related to the ratings system is welcome at the current ratings thread.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com
[This message has been edited by Solver (edited January 21, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Solver (edited January 21, 2001).]

Keygen · January 20, 2001, 12:59

One thing you should know Solver.
SMAC/X PBEM games are password protected.
A CMN (a player who don't preferably play in the game) keeps the passwords and opens the turn of a delayed player and play it for him.

Solver · January 21, 2001, 09:56

Note my typing mistake in the Elimination rule, the player gets defeated by everyone 3 times, I just fixed it.
And I know they're password-ed, but as I see, setting passwords is optional. I don't want the others to know my passwords, though. Do you, guys, always use passwords in PBEMs?

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com
[This message has been edited by Solver (edited January 21, 2001).]

Solver · January 21, 2001, 10:04

quote:

A CMN (a player who don't preferably play in the game) keeps the passwords and opens the turn of a delayed player and play it for him.

I didn't quite understand this. Does the CMN really play the turn of delayed player? In CtP, we just open it, push the next turn button and send the turn to next player. That's to prevent someone from doing thinks I don't want to. Sometimes a single move despite player's wish can decide a lot in the game - and the best example of this is a decision about where to found a new base.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

mark13 · January 21, 2001, 10:10

Hmmm....well, I personally always set a password on my PBEMs - simply because it prevents people from 'accidentally' having a good look at my bases/exactly what I'm doing. We don't really want people doing that - I think this can easily be fixed, however, my either giving the CMN the passwords, or having the CMN set the passwords in the first place ala the current tourney.

Solver · January 21, 2001, 10:13

It's not wise for the others to set passwords, they're rarely compiciated enough. My passwords are always damned difficult, while the passwords set by the others are often just 5 letters and digits.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com