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Old May 23, 1999, 10:26   #1
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RESOURCE MANAGMENT (ver1.0): Hosted by ember
Trachymer, if you still want this e-mail me.

mainly i'm pulling the bit off of <A HREF="">CITY INTERFACE</A> and <A HREF="">OTHER</A>. hope the the other thread masters don't mind.

This thread is about resource managment, who the three (or more?) types of resources are gathered, distributed, stored and used. I'm suprised that this thread had not been made earlier, as to me this is the fundamental aspect of the game.

Most posts in the resource managment area have been on [b]pooled resources[b]. This means that the resources of a nation or region are pooled and redistributed as seen fit by the player.
(Trachymer, shining1, mindlace, Travathian, ember)

After you have developed your social choices to a certain degree, you have the option to build a 'Reigonal Headquarters.' Once a city has built a reigonal headquarters, you select a certain number of cities (possibly dependant on social choices) that must be linked by roads/rr/water. Radius for the Reigon is determined the same way that Borders are determined, just internally as well. Then you name the reigon.

These cities are now in a reigon. When you click on the Reigonal Headquarters, the city screen shows a reigonal map instead (probably have to be expanded).
Production, Economy/Trade, Food, and research are aggregated. New buttons allow you to automagically switch citizens over to tiles/specializations that maximize one of the above for the reigon. You may use the 'scroll through cities' arrows (like SMAC) to see the traditional city screens, or click on a non headquarters city (right click-'show reigon'), or right click on the headquarters city to get 'show city'.

The build queue splits into 3 parts (someone else's idea) and you may place things into those queues and assign percentage priority to those queues. Rollover production follows standard rules, but goes to the highest priority queue first. When units are produced, you select on the reigonal map which city they are 'assembled' in. When improvements are built, the cities without the improvement are flagged, and you may not select a city that already has it.

Wow. Some great ideas arriving here.
The regional thing is something I've been trying to figure out for a while, and it works with some of my own ideas too. Being able to bring up a 'regional' map of the area - within the city menu - and then be able to send resources (up to a certain limit) to another city or move straight to that city's city menu without having to exit the current city and click on the new city from the maing screen.

This implies regions would be limited in size geographically - no bad thing. I suggest a radius of around 8-12 squares, depending on what works best for the regional map.

The idea of building a regional government is what link it all together properly. This government would form the regional centre (i.e always centre of the map for that region) and would be the main place to coordinate global build orders such as frank suggests.

Incidentally, the build orders idea fits well with the barracks one - allowing you to mothball production of one unit type and move to another - done by setting the slider scale to zero. I suggest a limit of three 'incomplete structures' per city. Units, however, will be different, in that you can't mothball production of one unit chassis (e.g barracks legion) to switch to another unit of the same type (e.g barracks archers). But you can change between structures, as I mentioned before (set the percentage slider to 0%)

This gives a much better feeling of connectedness between cities, AND make the capital a much more relevant structure. With the ability of all citizens to terraform roads, etc, connecting cities to the capital will be very easy, and because most early game work will be managed through the capital (the only available regional centre), you get a better sense that this town is 'important'.

Improvements and units should still be made on a per city basis - as they are in real life (I don't get the idea of having 'transferable' structures or terraforming, Ctp style).

1) Regionalisation
Every civilisation is divided up into different regions, based on a capital surrounded by a radius 8 area of land (or square, etc). Citys that are properly linked to the capital within this radius (i.e by road) can exchange resources, and the player can access any city from any other city with that region from the regional map, a popup feature within the city menu. Regions can be named, have their own internal borders, can be set identical production queues, and make city management a simpler process. As well, some social engineering factors (values) and the tax rate can be altered for each region.
(done either through options in the capital of the region or the social settings screen).

The 'radius for reigon' would really penalize an archapegalo(sp?) empire. That's why I say # of cities. The headquarters serving as the nexus of the first reigon- awesome. Though I hope that it takes a bit to discover 'headquarters'.

Units and infrastructure are indeed manufactured at many cities- often around the globe- and then assembled into final products at a given city. This is why I think reigonal production should be aggregated- it simulates the situation to a certain extent.

err... I think three build queues should be mixed, any unit/improvement you like- maybe even tile improvements? Though perhaps with this method you should get 2 queues to start (for a reigon) and, say, 4 for discovering mass production.
The rules for stopping/starting production are OK- no stopping units, only improvements that are currently being worked on. I'd say that wonders take up 2 of 3 slots- so that when the barbarian/mindworm eats your defensive unit, you can pop another out without abandoning the giant work in progress.

For these regions a proposs that your entire empire be treated as a region (full details in the thread " a new civilization concept"). all resources are pooled, and only, multi part build list. (one for improvments/PW (infrastructure), one for wonders, one for units, one for capitalization). wonders are built one at a time, as your civ can only have one focus.
Units and structures are prioritized in their menu's and each unit type is given resources proportional to it's priority, you then deploy completed units/structures where you want them.

This allows a lot of suggestions above without having to seperatly impliment them.
mothballing production: set the priority for that structure to 0, resources already spent are not lost, no new ones are added.
Massive structure builds. Discover SDI, set your imrovment build rate to the max, and assign set the SDI priority arbitrarily high, most production goes to SDI, until you have as many SDI as cities, when no more resources are added to the SDI bin, until there is an oppening. same method for the "10 bombers 20 tanks to london" set their priorities high tanks 2x that of bombers, deploy them all to london, presto.. an attack force.

Induvidual cities would no longer build units, they would be resource gathering points and bases, allowing much more specialized cities, like farming centers. The build screens would have to have good information about the current numbers of each unit types, production available, economy and stuff like that.

I personnal really like the pooled resource concept, regions sound very good to me, but i'd like to hear some more concrete suggestions on how to impliment them, what to do about fringe cities, how regions change over time and how to avoid having to set you production on two orginisational levels


how are resources shared between cities/regions
where/how are things built and how are they distributed
this could have an impact on the thread discussing the need to have oil available to use tanks...

-ember, thread master RESOURCE MANAGMENT
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Old May 23, 1999, 13:09   #2
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I have posted this idea on the topic: MOVEMENT, SUPPLIES, ETC, the idea is as follows:

There are some extra resources that is important for modern warfare and other things as well, it's acess to iron for steel and oil for fuel. My original idea was that this tings should be important for the suppling of units but could be important for the city as well, coal or some other energysource might be necissary for factories to work at 100%.

Anyhow to make the transporation of important resources to the troops i had the idea of subcountires, the cities that was connected by roads and/or was close to each other could move resources (food, ammo and fuel) to troops connected in some ways with the subcountry/region, units that wasn't connected would slowly run out of things; food if they were in a tile were foraging is impossible (desert etc), ammo when in combat and fuel if moved and/or in combat.

This system could also be used for moving of resources between cities, not productionshields since that would enable the player to move all shields to one city and build wonders in notime but food and other rawmaterial that would be necissary for some activities. For example, coal/oil/hydropower for factories etc to work, oil for fuel and steel for armored units etc. The movement of things between subcountries could be managed by starting convoys between two cites. Convoyunits (that wouldn't take any time to build, maybe a small cost) and would be a unit that could be sunk but not as easy to disturb as the traderouts in c:ctp, this would be automated and wouldn't mean much micromanagment. The most important with this idea is that some regions with iron or oil would be of stategic importace and civ's without acess would have to trust allies to supply them or buy it from a world market, i'm thinking OPEC and the Gulf war...

The subcountry isn't the same thing as your region since the subcountry could be very large (large continent) or very small(small island), but close...

any comments/ideas?
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Old May 23, 1999, 13:23   #3
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Don't you think the title of this thread is too broad? RESOURCE MANAGEMENT is pretty all-encompassing.

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Old May 23, 1999, 14:01   #4
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I agree with the Octopus. Please make this discussions in the TRADE thread instead.
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Old May 23, 1999, 16:10   #5
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What would you suggest then?
It is mean to cover the ideas coming up about regions and how resources could be managed with them...
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Old May 23, 1999, 19:32   #6
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I believe a bigger Issue, which was touched upon, is center here.

Removing the emphassis on cities
The position of CIV,CtP,SMAC, and other games of this genere, is that the CITY is the center of society, and the primary focus.

Instead, I counter, that it is the network of all human populaces, all structures (mines. roads, barracks, factories, ect.), and how they interact that decide if a nation is to succede or fail.

Regions, by their definition, is the combined character of a geographical location. To represent this, regions must be added to CIV3.
Various methods of creating regions has been discussed in other threads. I prefer computer generated, fixed regions. These would conform to terrain and natural boundries (rivers, mountains, Ocean). Regions would also have a maxinum size.
I do not believe that fixed regions would subtract from the game, since real-life regions have remained the same thoughout history, though their names have been changed, and they have been contested.
Regions would form the primary borders of a society, contested regions would have interior borders similar to SMAC.

Habitation and Population
Before cities were constructed, people were nomadic... or semi-nomadic. This needs to be represented in CIV3. My suggestion would be to treat NOMADIC POPULATIONS as a mobile city, but not "improvable".
Eventually settlements were built, which grew into towns, which grew into cities.
I believe settlements should be reprented with evolving grapichs which expand to additional tiles as the settlement expands.

The concept of city improvements is simply an abstract for the implementaion of new technology within a city. I believe CIV gamers can handle a more realistic aproach to city development:
1) Technology implementation- When new technology which can benifit a settlement (let's say an Aqueduct) is discovered, that tech must first be implemented. This cost revenue (an alternative name for GOLD), and is based upon the size of a city (It is harder to incorporate new tech into larger, more stable cities). This expenditure reprensts the cost of materials, the cost to educate engineers, and incentives to implement the technology. Once the technology is implemented, it provides it's benefits to the settlement (in this case a reduction in negative health modifiers due to overcrowding and allowing larger cities). Technology may be implemented on a city, regional or national level to reduce micromanegement.

2) City improvement. A city has many diffrent aeras in which to improve... Housing, Industry, Economy, Recreation and so on. I suggest abstract level to each aera. Thus a city with a level 4 Indusstry typically can produdue more than one with a Level 3 Industry. Improvement require Public Works, similar to CtP. To increase in an aera, a certain number of PW must be spent. Like-wise any nessacary tech must have been implemented. (In our example above, an aqueduct will allow habitation Level 4 & 5 to be reached. If the city was at Habitation 3, it would need x amount of public works to reach 4 now that Aqueducts have been implemented.)
Settlements improve semi-automatically... they only use PW to improve a level if that aera is becoming inefficient due to # of people using it. (# of factory workers for Industry, total population for Habitation). As inefficency rises, a larger percent of available PW will be used to enhance that aera. You may also set Priority numbers to the diffrent aeras. This allows a more "hands-off" approach and highly reduced micromanement (you simply choose what percent of PW to enhance the city, priorities are optional, the computer does the rest based upon your population and workforce). As city level in these aeras increase, the settlement will expand to empty tiles, become denser or expand upwards. If you run out of room, you city will stagnate.

Your workforce is handled on a city or regional basis, depending on your "National Goverment Level" (Independant/Regional/Federal).

Workforce determines not only what you produce/build but how your cities develop as well (A city lith Level 8 Industry due to a lot of factory workers is much different than a city with Level 8 religion due to lots of clergy. Detroit vs. the Vatican)

All other projects utilize PW, from mines to roads to Wonders(which appear on the map)

Other conepts will be included, and i'll expand on them later (Goverment, Stockpiles (National vs. Regional) and army production to name a few).

The result will be a highly graphical representation of you NATION, not just cities. Also Micromanement of city improvement is eased, to allow for more detailed workforce, supply and economy.

One final note, tiles should be reduced in size to allow this to be effective. I suggest 1/4 size at maxinum.

[This message has been edited by Trachmyr (edited May 24, 1999).]
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Old May 25, 1999, 00:59   #7
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<turfwar> 'Cuse me, but how is this different from the current stuff in the regional menu & city menu thread? A good 1/4 of one of my old summaries seems to be included in the summary for the topic.

Suggestions for resources should be under the previous thread - it's a pretty critical part of city management, after all. Not that you mention it at all in your post...

And yeah, I do mind - mainly because you repeat ground already covered. </turfwar>

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