THREAD MASTER'S WAR ROOM: Suggestions for Making the List/Running the Forum - Page 2

Shining1 · May 20, 1999, 20:51

Re: future tech thread.

I don't think this is necessary. Remember, CivIII is the first stroke of the broom of time - the game probably won't go past 2100 before it breaks into either SMAC(II) or Sid Meier's Expansion Game (SMEG for short). So future tech is pretty much going to be the stuff that's in SMAC.

BTW, someone slap Brian and tell him that sentient econometrics is impossible. It violates the 'lack of imformation' principle - to get a coherent future prediction, you need an infinite amount of data recorded to an infinite precision.

the Octopus · May 20, 1999, 21:34

Yin, do you want us to alert you when you need to close a thread because we've moved to a new one, or are you just going to watch?

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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

yin26 · May 21, 1999, 01:03

Octopus, if the thread hits 60, please tell me--but chances are it's because I'm away from the computer anyway and will catch it ASAP.

All Thread Masters:

Please <a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000039.html?date=00:47">click here</a> to jump to THE SUMMARY THREAD. The paperwork continues!

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 21, 1999).]

Koyaanisqatsi · May 21, 1999, 15:38

Yin, could you clear out some of the non-list topics in here before you go? They're starting to clutter up the place . . .

the Octopus · May 21, 1999, 22:09

Unless we need to keep track of who posted which idea, we do not need to tell people to manually keep track of who posted what in a thread. I've already said I will develop a perl script to do that for us. It will be easy. Yin, stop telling people to do it. It's pointless work.

If anybody is still doing that "first time posted in this thread" stuff, cut it out. Completely unnecessary.

<u>Summary Comments</u>: I think I have some comments about some of the styles used for the various summaries, but I don't want to "pollute" the summary thread with them. Where should we do that?

<u>STANDARDS</u>

Please, people, can we start working on some standards?

I think every thread should have a header that explains the basic purpose of the list, what a thread master is, etc. Please look at the beginning of my <a href=http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000038.html>Technology</a> thread to see what I am talking about. A header post like that sets the groundwork for a thread, and properly orients somebody who has just arrived on these forums. I think every thread should have one. Once we establish what sort of content is appropriate, we can post a template which you can just cut-and-paste into the beginning of your thread.

Thread names: I think each thread should have a major name in all caps (like TECHNOLOGY or UNITS), a revision number (like 1.2 or 3.7), and a "hosted by ______" (this is probably superfluous, but it makes the threads stand out a bit).

For the numbering scheme, use numbers to the left of the decimal point for major revision and numbers to the right of the decimal point for minor revisions. (I leave undecided at this point the question of whether 1.11 is greater than 1.9).

I welcome anybody else's suggestions for standardization, but please, let's at least start thinking about it. This forum is going to be confusing enough for people coming in for the first time without every thread master doing everything in a different way.

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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

JT · May 21, 1999, 22:18

Dang it, Octo! I've done all the paperwork of getting the names and now you say it's unnessacary!

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-Civ3 Thread Master of OTHER and UNITS.
"We get the paperwork, you get the game!"

yin26 · May 21, 1999, 22:19

Quote:

I've already said I will develop a perl script to do that for us. It will be easy. Yin, stop telling people to do it. It's pointless work.

O.K., O.K., Don't yell at me!

If you can do this for us, that's really going to save us a lot of time. MUCH appreciated.

As you all know, I'll be out of town soon, so I might not be able to help set these standards over the next few days. But if you guys agree to Octopus' system, I'll update all the thread titles ASAP.

Do you like his system, everybody?

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CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

tfs99 · May 21, 1999, 22:26

I think it would be simpler to just number then 1, 2, 3 ... Roman numerals are confusing and the 1.x approach runs out of x's.

Civ3

n ... Ted S.

the Octopus · May 21, 1999, 22:40

"Dang it, Octo! I've done all the paperwork"

I said at the time it was unnecessary. If you didn't listen it's your own fault

.

tfs99: The "running out of numbers" problem can be solved by either starting more conservatively at 1.00 and moving to 1.01, or by declaring that it isn't really a decimal number, and that 1.10 is greater than 1.9, not equal to 1.1 (with that system, you can continue down the path to 1.10.2.17 if you were some sort of masochist and branched off...). I think we lose a sense of continuity with either arabic or roman numeral naming systems. It is a lot clearer that "Technology 1.3" is related to "Technology 1.2" than it is that "Technology 3" is related to "Technology 2". At least, the way I look at things it is clearer that way...

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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

yin26 · May 21, 1999, 22:45

O.K. I like Octo's system. Can I just stick with 1.1, 1.2--2.0, or should I go down to 1.01? Let me know what you think.

the Octopus · May 21, 1999, 22:45

Yin: I noticed you closed Rong's thread before he was able to start a new one. Do you really think that's wise? People who might want to post in that topic are sort of left in the lurch until Rong shows up, and posts whatever he wants to post at the beginning (hopefully a summary), etc. I think our system should be that the Thread Master should post a "this thread closed" message directing people to the new thread, and then you can lock it down. Anybody agree/disagree?

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Lancer · May 21, 1999, 23:26

Hi All,
OK,I have a clue.I'll just start a borders thread,make the title look kinda like the others.I put my opinions in on how it might be done in a perfect world.If it isn't right Yin you fix it please.
Once I have 60 people put in suggestions I bring them down into a reasonable size and then I post em all again.Then umm,umm,well that's enough for now.I'll get started.

yin26 · May 21, 1999, 23:41

Lancer,

FYI: I'll be closing your thread at around 50 posts. At that point, you'll carry a clean summary to your new thread. The numbering system for the thread titles will be fixed soon.

By the way, everybody:

If I don't get any further feedback by later tonight, I'm switching all titles to the 1.0, 1.1, system. Thanks.

Lancer · May 22, 1999, 01:10

Yin,I see constant references to "cut and paste"
but am an old fart and don't know much about computers.
Also I saw a reference to UBB and HTML.No clue.
Does this lack of knowledge effect my eligability to be a threadmaster?

Absolutely not! Take a look at my UBB code thread. Find a post with some formatting trick in it you like. Then click the "edit message" button. You'll see all the codes in the message. Now all you have to do is use those codes in your own stuff if you want. Easy. In fact, if you click "edit message" on this post, you'll see how I did italics. Here's bold. Piece of cake! If you need more tricks, just ask. *Yin*

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 22, 1999).]

tfs99 · May 22, 1999, 02:08

Certainly the numbers 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 look similar. But I fail to see how prefixing a "1." on 0, 1, 2, 3 makes it better than a 1, 2, 3 by itself. Maybe it's an inclination towards computer revision numbers.

Any "decimal" numbering system will have an intuitive discontinuity at either the transition from 1.9 to 2.0 or at 1.9 to 1.10. It introduces needless complexity. A simple numbering system suffers from no such discontinuity. Remember the KISS principle.

There is another possibility: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.

Civ3

n ... Ted S.

yin26 · May 22, 1999, 04:29

I went with the easier method:

TOPIC (ver1): Hosted by Thread Master

Thanks for the ideas on this, guys. I think it looks better now.

the Octopus · May 22, 1999, 13:50

I still think Yin and tfs99 are wrong about the numbering system. Now you can't have a discontinuity if you want one. I guess I'm stuck with your system now, but I think it is the wrong decision. "Maybe it's an inclination towards computer revision numbers." Well, duh. Maybe because they've got a good system?

Yin, you seem to be a tad quick about declared consensus reached. There seemed to be only one objection to the decimal system, and no other posts on it. I remember that evil_conquerer voiced support for the decimal system on the SMAC forums. If we decide that a particular decision is going to be reached by consensus we ought to reach it. If you're going to make a decision unilaterally, you shouldn't imply that you won't.

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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

tfs99 · May 22, 1999, 14:34

I am not speaking for JT. However, I'd like to point out that he was already using a I, II, III type of numbering system for his MLs. So there is another person who declined to use a "decimal" numbering system.

Those who were inclined to look in the War Room and comment did so. I suspect that the specifics of a numbering scheme is probably a non-issue for most TMs.

And if it works out that Yin's (verNN) system is burdensome or unworkable, it can always be changed later.

Civ3

n ... Ted S.

the Octopus · May 22, 1999, 14:41

Ted, my point is that virtually nobody discussed it, and there were only a few hours between when the issue really presented itself and when Yin made a unilateral decision. Evil_conqueror made his comments in the SMAC version of the war room. I will live with a system, even though I disagree with it, but I do not like the process that was used to arrive at it. I personally am not crazy about the idea that yin can just make arbitrary decisions. This one is not very consequential, but what about the next one?

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tfs99 · May 22, 1999, 15:03

>>>> Octo

You have a valid point. I suspect that Yin made the decision quickly due to his imminent road trip.

Also, it seems like Yin, you and I (as well as the occasional passerby, that rhymes!) are the only ones who pay attention and post in the War Room. Maybe Yin concluded that there wouldn't be any more comments.

I agree numbering is not a biggy. Recognizing that it's not, perhaps Yin figured a lot more discussion was not needed. I don't know. As far as future decisions, we'll just have to wait and see.

Civ3

n ... Ted S.

SnowFire · May 22, 1999, 15:47

Not that it matters anymore, but I also support Octopus on the computer revision system. It's much clearer that way; and besides, the "over 9" issue isn't going to be that much of a factor. After 1.9, either go on to 2.0, or use 1.91-1.99.

evil conquerer · May 22, 1999, 16:04

Just want to restate my opinion here. Octopus, thanks for reminding me

I liked the system I think originally suggested by tfs, where the versions for the original threads go v1.0, v1.1, etc. The decimal place goes up one number for each tiem the thread is closed @ 50 posts. Then when the master list is made, it takes the most recent version of all of those threads. After the master list, the threads start over at v2.0, v2.1, and so on. After the next master list is compiled, all the threads start over with 3... you get the picture. This makes it easier to remember which version everyone is on, because otherwise you could have version 14 of the technology thread be only version 2 of the master list, while version 5 of the units thread (for example) would be on version 3 of the master list. See how confusing that gets?

Koyaanisqatsi · May 22, 1999, 16:05

I don't really see any need to make things more complicated than they have to be. Just go with a number like Yin did.

And, if I may add, who cares!!!

monolith94 · May 22, 1999, 18:16

I'll host a thread on the cross-platform debate. If that's ok.

Monolith, go for it. But the title should read:

CROSS-PLATFORMS (ver1.0): Hosted by ...

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 22, 1999).]

yin26 · May 22, 1999, 19:19

First off, we can indeed change the system to the one Octopus suggested (btw, Octopus, I have never tried to make decisions here unilaterally--but sometimes time contraints and the difficulty of getting majority agreement on a forum forces me to make some choices instead of waiting too long: Try to work with me on that point--agreed?

).

This is NOTHING to panic about. Our version number are still so young that we can wait a few days to change the titles to Octo's system, which seems to be what people want.

Am I correct this time?

If it helps to understand why I didn't wait, I was indeed trying to set something up before I left for my trip in two hours. Maybe I made the wrong choice, but, hey, I have MODERATOR power to edit the titles later--so, as always, I will go with what the majority wants on these issues.

(Man, this is like a fight in the board room at work!

)

By the way, I just want to keep encouraging you guys. This project is taking really great shape thanks to all our hard work. Remember, just 4 days ago, none of this structure was here. None. Amazing...

Yin

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CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 22, 1999).]

the Octopus · May 22, 1999, 19:36

Yin, if you plan is to change everything around again in a few days, then you shouldn't have changed everything around last night. Personally, I hate having the names of these threads changed around, especially my threads. I doubt that people posting in them are to pleased with it, either. If we had a system and you were forcing conformace, that would be one thing, but this "I'll do whatever I want 'cause I can fix it later" attitude is counterproductive. I don't want to be a *****, but if you don't have time to do something right, then you shouldn't do it at all. We could have lived for a few days with old threads not conforming to a new system. There is no crisis, but now you have screwed up the filing system I had been using for my own purposes with your "ver2" system, and now you say you are going to switch it again. That's a total pain in the ass.

To answer Bell: I care, and so do some others.

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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

yin26 · May 22, 1999, 19:54

[This is the smaller version of the original response I had to Octopus--I'm a little calmer now.

]

Octopus,

First, let me just say, you have put a lot of work into the project, and I thank you. You have also offered to make the PERL script for the names, which will help a great deal.

But you are pushing me too hard and not trying to understand my limitations. All of our jobs on this require a great deal of work and patience. I'll do my best in the future to wait for majority feedback--and can you please do your best in the future to try to be more constructive when something doesn't go the way you like?

Agreed?

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CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 22, 1999).]

Koyaanisqatsi · May 22, 1999, 20:12

*Distributes lithium all around*

C'mon people, chill a second. We're getting sorta proprietary about stuff here, aren't we? I don't think that's what this project needs . . .

Oh yeah, and Yin, could you please not reply to people in their own messages? It sorta defeats the purpose of having a threaded message system, and when you're used to looking at the bottom of a thread for replies, it makes stuff hard to find.

[This message has been edited by Bell (edited May 22, 1999).]

yin26 · May 22, 1999, 20:14

O.K. While we wait to see Octopus' response to the matter of titles, I have another important question on something else:

Is 50 posts too many before we close the thread?

I've noticed that people coming to the site are overwhelmed by the length of the topics. I realize that there is simply no way to make a project of this size easily digestable to the casual reader, but perphas we can close threads at 35 or some other number (20?) we decide...This will be more work for the Thread Masters in the short-term, but long-term it will help keep things much more organized and manageable.

Your thoughts?

(p.s. I'm leaving for the plane in about 2 hours, so wish me luck in Denver!)

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CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 22, 1999).]

yin26 · May 22, 1999, 20:17

Bell,

Understood.