PLAYER INTERFACE (ver1.0): Hosted by Frank Moore

[Frank Moore]

Restarted the thread on the new forum.

[meowser]

Something along the lines of SMAC would be nice.

[JT]

Yeah, SMAC was pretty good. CPT was horrible. I kept sending my units around the world because you have to right click to deselect them, even after it went to the next unit.

[Ecce Homo]

I would like a Windows environment, if it could support animations.

[the Octopus]

You should have the ability to attach "notes" to your units that would pop up like a tool-tip item. For example, you could outline a short term plan for the unit, so it doesn't get lost in a crowd ("moving to Thermopylae to be new home base, then to Sparta staging area for assault on Phonecians").

You should have the ability to put different events (with optional notes) into the "queue" that moves you through each unit. For example, if you started mobilizing units for war from a city, you might want to mark the city to come back to at the end of the turn so that you could see if you needed to deal with any unhappiness effects that would put your city into a riot. Many times in SMAC I would see a mindworm boil spawn somewhere, and say "I'll have to deal with that later", but then my focus would be drawn to more pressing matters in my overall plan (say, a major attack on another faction) and I would sometimes forget to come back and deal with the worms.


------------------
CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"


[This message has been edited by the Octopus (edited May 19, 1999).]

[Shining1]

Some ideas:
1) I like the windows environment bit. And the ability to replace the cd in the drive and have access to the cd player (without having to alt-tab everywhere) can't be underestimated.

2) The total annihilation idea of being able to view the details on anything under the mouse cursor in a special window at the bottom of the screen is worth including. Means you don't have to click on each square to find out what's in it, what the terrain does, etc.

3) A proper unit stacking system MUST be available for CivIII. But I don't like the idea of using combined arms in a warcraft/HOMM kind of way. You can still do a great deal with units in the main screen, especially by having other units in the same square to convey benefits on that unit.

Un-stacking when you come to attack will be the main issue (though civII was reasonably good for this). And the stack dialouge interface should make it easy to set options like hold and intercept for appropriate units.

[the Octopus]

We should have the ability to name important units, like aircraft carriers, so we can distinguish them better and organize our forces better (e.g. you could somehow link the carrier name to the fighter name if you were launching a multiple-carrier airborne attack, so you could sort out the confusion on the return flight).

[Fugi the Great]

Please standardize what keys do what. I got so used to playing SMAC, that when I went back to try a CIV2 game I used a SMAC command with the opposite effect I wanted. I pressed the "H" key to hold it where it was, but of course it took off for home, oh well lost that battle. Go ahead, laugh it up. Also the keys should do the same thing in the city screen, if you still use it, and the open terrain. In SMAC, pressing "H" in the city ment "hurry" which not what I wanted to do, I wanted the unit to "hold" in the city.

[Frank Moore]

Here are the ideas that were proposed on the other forum, before we moved over here:

1. There should be a way to group units together so that they act as one unit. For example, group 2 rovers, one probe team, and three infantry units together. They would move as one unit (with the slowest unit determining movement rate), and if you didn't ewant to move theunit at all, it would only take one spacebar, not six, to not move the units.

2. A way to customise the right-click menus. I'm sure that some people have favorite orders that they like to give. It would be nice if the player could choose what to include on the right-click shortcut menus. Note that this could change during the game sothat "plant forest" could be included early in the game, while "build magtube" would be added later.


From CyberShy:

• Option to set out an entire route for a unit, now you can only set a 'go-to target' and then the computer finds it's way. Why not a 'first goto #, then goto #, then goto #' option, and even repeat if visa versa so you can create 'units that control a special area and keep track of it' And you can make sure that your units won't get lost.

***** note to Cybershy - This is possible in SMAC, the player is able to set waypoints on a go-to order or on a patrol order.*****

• Combine the 'public work' concept and the old, but great settler concept, by being able using your right mouse-button to click a tyle, then a drop down gives you the choise "terra form" / "improve tyle" / whatever else. And then give your option, in example "Forst / Irrigation / road" etc. etc. Then the settlers will take care of it. Now you can make plan for improving the area of your city at once, and in the coming 1000 years your settler(s) will handdle it. Of course you can change the tyle-plan during the game.

In fact the settlers still do the work, but you can programm them very easily.
You must even be able to tell a settler to only work for city 'a' or work for every city. To make a 'que' for this improvements-list. Now you can macromanage micromanagement. It works even easier then the pw system, because you can plan your improvements even when you're not able yet to perform the improvement.

• When I'm able to build SDI in a deity level, all my cities start to build this at once, because of the danger of nuke-attacks. There must be an option "Let all cities make SDI asap" or "Now" or "Use all my money to finnish SDI ASAP" etc.

When you're at war give the option "I need 10 armors and 20 bombers in the area of Amsterdam ASAP. Then the cities surrounding Amsterdam will work on it, and after they made it, they continue their current job. It must even be possible that the created units all move to amsterdam as well automaticly. This works ways better then going from city to city to change their production target, and then set it back later again.

Of course you can micromanage later the city of Rotterdam in example to continue builing on the Oracle, while the other cities near Amsterdam make the army

• It must be possible to make laws. A law gets reflection on the society as well. When in 1800 the law starts to work that forbid kids below 16 years to work, but says that HAEV TO study, then production will go down for a couple of years, but soon the people will be smarter, and higher educated, which will improve your society and science rate.

Other laws are possible as well. All boys between 18 and 21 have to go into the army. Drugs are not allowed, Gay-mariage, 3-day workweek, raise vacation days, forbid swimming, give drugs free, forbid divorcion etc. etc. etc. (whatever can come up in your sick mind, mister dictator hehe)


From don Don:
1. In Civ the Attitude Advisor space on the right for a row of icons showing city improvements. Happiness improvements in particular (Temple, Cathedral, Coliseum) but also certain others (my mind draws a blank here).

Now I load up a spreadsheet and keep track of what's been built in what city. (I do it for MOO2 also.) What I want is a civilization spreadsheet showing size, production, key improvements, etc., from which I can access the production queue directly without going to the city screen.

Direct access to the resource map would be nice too, so you could open two or three neighboring cities up and swap squares.

2. Mmmmm, while we're at it, make the list and order of improvement icons customizable, too. Throw in a toggle for Tax/Lux/Sci and Supply/Demand displays to replace production and improvement displays. Naturally make it sortable by age, alpha, size, happiness, shields, etc. And fix it so it responds to up/down pg up/pg dn and doesn't lose its place when you do jump to a city screen and back.



[This message has been edited by Frank Moore (edited May 20, 1999).]

[Frank Moore]

A couple of ideas to make our lives easier:

If you are referencing a particular game (e.g. Civ, CivII, SMAC) let us all know so we know what you are talking about.

Include examples to illustrate points, I think this makes it easier on everyone.

And now a question. I have not bought (or played) CTP, should I get this game? I guess my question boils down to: Are there improvements to the player interface in CTP that should be used in CivIII, or are there no real improvements?

------------------
Frank Moore - Civ3 Player Interface Thread Master

[Frank Moore]

I think that some input would be helpful on the Design Workshop - I know this was not included in civ or civ2 (not sure about CTP). I think that there is room for some improvement on this. Lets see some ideas!



------------------
Frank Moore - Civ3 Player Interface Thread Master

[the Octopus]

When you reload a saved game, you should be provided with a summary of the current state of your empire and important recent events. For example, "you are currently working on 2 Wonders, The Spanish declared War five turns ago, and you have just discovered Gunpowder". Oftentimes I forget where I am when I reload a game, and it takes me a while to re-orient myself.


------------------
CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

[zaz]

Octopus: Great idea, perhaps this could just be a pop-up screen that is always available. I have a wife and son, and sometimes, while I'm playing, if they are home, I'll forget what is happening.

[tfs99]

Have the SPACEBAR work as a "Hold for one turn" rather than the current "End Turn for this unit".

There have been many times when I meant to press 'w' to delay moving a unit and pressed SPACEBAR instead. Argggh. Just lost the ability to move that unit this turn!

If they are only holding, I can go back and give them a new order if I need them to move.

[tfs99]

>>>> Shining1

Most definitely a "rollover" display of what's under the cursor would be excellent! They already know how to do this because there is a "rollover" for the units in a SMAC base screen.

[tfs99]

The game should minimize to the Taskbar when it loses focus. HOMM3 does this.

If the game could be made to "let go" of the audio playback system when it loses focus that would be great, too.

[tfs99]

Building on the pop-up information theme:

- Let players store a note in the game when they save it that will pop-up when reloaded.

- Have the ability to enter a note to pop-up as a reminder based upon certain events (i.e., turn year, unit built, etc.)

[tfs99]

From SMAC: Have the game check to see if a full install already exists, before popping up a dialog box that tells me the game CD is not in the drive.

Minor issue, but it becomes more and more annoying over time!

[tfs99]

>>>>> Frank Moore

Custom context menus, yes! Another excellent idea. Those useful menu picks are always "squirreled" one or two levels down.

>>>>> Fugi the Great

Building on your key standardization:

Allow player to choose and customize the binding of keystrokes to various commands and menu picks. I think CtP does this.

Also, display the customized shortcut key in the context and main menus.

[Ralph]

I think the upcoming CIV-3 interface-framework should capitalise as much as possible from the well-known Windows-95 interface-standardisation.

By that i mean: standard dropdown-menus, toolbars, right-click menus, drag-dropping and so on - but also like in CIV-2 (but unlike SMAC); making CIV-3 switch-able trough the Win-95 taskbar, so the player can interact with any self-designed Civ-3 help-programs or strategy-guides.

Every PC-owner has lots of automatic “know-how” from using Windows design-standardisation, and i think it somewhat of a COMPLETE MYSTERY why most strategy-games after CIV-2 have stubbornly used there own home-grown ideas with various success. CTP is a worst-case example of this

[yin26]

-=*BUMP*=-

------------------
CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

[Ralph]

A CIV game is not just about empire-building. It’s also a racing-game, and as such you need feedback “lap-times” and “racing-positions”.

It was a disappointment to discover that CTP only had its Powergraph. SMAC had more then that, but not enough.

In CIV-3 i want a improved/extended version of CIV-2 “Demographics”. Bring it back to us.

[Ecce Homo]

I miss the Replay function from Civ 1. It should be available throughout the game, but before the end it should be limited to ypur own Civ's accomplishments.

[Blade Runner]

I think the best a user modifiable key shortcuts interface. Everybody can use CIV III like SMAC, CTP, CIV II, AOE or Quake (just kidding ;-) ). Maybe even better to ask in the beginnig of the installation process which user interface is fit for you, of course you can later change this.

Blade Runner

[Freddz]

I would like Windows environment "Tool bars" that are minimizable and can be moved anywhere on the screen. This toolbar would have buttons for buildings and another(?) toolbar for units that can be queued without having to leave the Main map screen. This would make building things a lot faster.

Possible problem: I think it's important to keep the toolbars small so they don't cover much of the main map(in the end you'll have a lot of buildings to build in new towns). This could be solved with a "More" button which will show the other half(or how many they are) of the build buttons instead.

I think there should be easily accessed buttons for maximizing Food, Production and Science too. They were there in CTP, but nothing was easy access in that game. And you shouldn't have to step in another menu to do it.

[Freddz]

I forgot. I truly hate the grey Windows environment in a game. In that sense I loved SMAC and CTP interface. So lets not have the TRUE interface of Windows as in Civ 2. Yuk.

P.S. I dunno if any of my ideas have been mentioned by someone else. I haven't read this thread through(sorry )

[Depp]

Im must say that the interface in CTP was far better than SMAC.

SMAC had 50 million different stuff in the right click menys which made everything really hard to see.

CTP had a slick interface, and those who complained over the sending units the wrong way had obviously never changed the mouse click options in the options meny. Then you got a Age Of Empires interface, select with left and send with right, worked great.

The only thing about CTP was that it changed so much from Civ 2 so many didn´t recognise themselves and imediatly didn´t like it

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Depp writes:
CTP had a slick interface, and those who complained over the sending units the wrong way had obviously never changed the mouse click options in the options meny. Then you got a Age Of Empires interface, select with left and send with right, worked great.

I changed it. I still complained. I still hated it, for that matter. I found it easier to fight the game and use the keypad than to use the mouse for movement. It might be better if there was a decent pathfinding algorithm, but I still think the control of using the keypad is better. Of course, you could still click-and-hold to send to like in SMAC.

[Onmoy]

i couldn't wait to get CTP.. but when i finally got it home and went to play it, I couldn't stand it! It is the absolute worst case scenario at work.. the user interface is terrible.. i can't stand it.. that game is going back.. now, what i'd like to see from Civ3 is an interface almost exactly like Civ2.. i don't really think anything needs to change.. Civ2 has a great UI..

[Frank Moore]

Here are a few more ideas I had while SMACing over the weekend.

IMPROVEMENT FOR DESIGN WORKSHOP - The design workshop should be able to display many more units at one time, not just the scrolling bar at the bottom of the screen. IMHO the DW shoyld not be a popup, but the entire screen itself. I think this would allow the player to see most (if not all) of his units at one time w/out having to move the mouse over them to see what the unit is.

FILTERING IN DESIGN WORKSHOP - It should be easy to be able to just display air units or naval units, so that all of a players units of a given type could be displayed on the screen at one time.

Thats all for now, I'll try to have a summary put together before this thread gets too long.

------------------
Frank Moore - Civ3 Player Interface Thread Master