Discussion thread CB-Diplogame

CapTVK · February 10, 2001, 14:44

Instead of filling up the official thread with discussions about rules, subs, game mechanics, I think it would be wise to make a special thread for this. And leave the official thread for the game-related postings.

So if you want to discuss or propose something about Cavebear's diplogame do it in this thread:

Current subject:[*]Nukes
[This message has been edited by CapTVK (edited March 02, 2001).]

absurddoctor · February 11, 2001, 04:38

I have been scheduled to work next Sunday as well, once again I will see if AbsurdSensei wishes to play that session, and if not I will find someone.

AD

cavebear · February 11, 2001, 18:22

Well, looks like we got rained out for this session. My sincere thanks for everyone being so patient and staying with the game as we tried to figure out what the problem was. I'll be checking with Absurd and Epik (as backup) this week to *try* and make sure it works properly next week.

See you then...

War4ever · February 11, 2001, 18:23

gr........

CapTVK · February 11, 2001, 18:26

Well, till next week then.

P.S
Just because we didn't do anything doesn't mean we don't have to post. Think up of something fun or creative. Or throw out some lines towards your opponents to see if you catch something.

I'll see if can think up something myself.

cavebear · February 18, 2001, 23:11

My thanks to everyone for hanging in through the startup problems we have had the past 2 weeks. Part of it seems to be simul problems. The benefits are substantial, but it seems to cause some problems in return. I only ask that people remember that the time saved in simul game play outweighs the startup problems overall (I hope).

My special thanks to Sekong and Species for subbing tonight for missing players. I know through experience that it isn't easy to do that in an ongoing game, and the startup problems must have made it even more unsettling.

Here's hoping it will go more smoothly next Sunday!

absurddoctor · February 19, 2001, 01:08

Well, the bad news is (or, I should say was) that AbsurdSensei forgot about subbing for me today and went off to do something which I must confess was more important.

The good news is that it looks I will be available this coming Sunday. I was originally scheduled to work from 4 to 8 EST again, but I believe I have found someone to switch with me. Assuming the boss does not put a kabosh on the switch (I'll be getting a nine hour shift instead of 4 which will give me overtime which is always frowned upon) I will finally be back

Thank you to whoever played the celts, and cavebear, could you email me a save so I can see what happened?

AD

CapTVK · February 19, 2001, 17:38

Hope you can make it next time Absurd.

The good news is that your civ is still standing. The bad news is that we're loosing the WoW race.

absurddoctor · February 20, 2001, 02:29

I will be there, assuming nothing crazy happens. I cleared the switch with the boss today and reminded her that I would like to have Sundays off. Apparently she had just forgotten that I had ever told her that, so perhaps she will start giving them to me now

AD

cavebear · February 20, 2001, 11:43

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by absurddoctor on 02-20-2001 01:29 AM
I will be there, assuming nothing crazy happens. I cleared the switch with the boss today and reminded her that I would like to have Sundays off. Apparently she had just forgotten that I had ever told her that, so perhaps she will start giving them to me now

AD
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>

That's good news. Sometimes they just need to be reiminded.

sekong · February 21, 2001, 16:23

Thanks to war4ever for introducing me to this game. It was a lot of fun. I just post my report on another thread. And I have a autosav which can be sent to King Absurb. :=)

Talking about WoW race. I guess the King Absurb's Crusade was for Magellan's Expedition? Sorry that I don't know yr plan. Otherwise, I may have ask English for Navigation and rush buy it.

CapTVK · March 2, 2001, 10:46

Nukes: Ordinary weapons of war?

The tech race seems to be going faster and faster right now. We're starting to near that dreaded WoW: "Manhattan project". In the last major diplogame I played we agreed not to build MHP. For fear that one of the AI players could react in the wrong way. Plus there was always the danger that the AI would build MHP anyway. In fact, we had to send spies into AI controlled cities on several occasions to sabotage production.

This isn't such a problem when we have a full compliment of players, but the question remains: do we allow nukes or not? In simul all players can react at the same time, so the danger that player who gets the first shot is lessened a bit. I do think that we shouldn't allow SDI to make it a bit more realistic. Which means a tweak in the rules.txt. Otherwise the bigger players win out against the smaller ones, they can easily rushbuild SDI while smaller players may not have the resources for this.

What's the preference of the other players about allowing nukes?

Epik · March 2, 2001, 21:02

Nukes and SDI should be allowed. Nukes are the tools of the desparate. If used all of the other tribes would likely gang up on the user. That is a pretty good deterant.

Artificial Ignorance should not be allowed. The AI is a poor player. In a Diplo game the AI will violate border agreements and build more than 30 cities. It is better to skip a session than to allow the AI to take over a tribe.

cavebear · March 3, 2001, 18:41

Well, I do not love nukes. Still, they are a part of the game. In a way, they are are a way for weaker civs to balance stronger ones. The stronger ones may be able to build SDI more easily, but the weaker ones need few nukes to achieve parity.

I fully agree that use of nukes is a diplomatic matter. But this *is* a diplo game, and such reactions should be diplomatically subjected to world opinion and action. If one civ uses a nuke to destroy a capital and kill a SS, then it should not be all that hard to nuke that offending parties cities in return, in greater force, by international cooperation.

CapTVK · March 4, 2001, 15:07

We understand war, hope your grandmother is able to recover.

CapTVK · March 4, 2001, 15:16

Just got a reply that Kenthur is willing to play sub for tonight. So I guess the regular playing time (22:00-1:00 CET) stands.

War4ever · March 5, 2001, 01:53

ok some bad news for my family..... my grandmother just suffered a stroke and while i can't do anything to help her about it..... i am going to the hospital with my mum to sit by her side today......... so i cannot play in our diplo game......

i didnt' see anyone on icq to ask to sub for me

perhaps you guyz will find one anyways.....

thanks again guyz

Epik · March 5, 2001, 14:09

It looks like we have some issues to deal with. I was reviewing my save of the game from yesterday and I see that Milo built 3 new cities for the Horde. They now have 33 cities.

From the complaining that Milo was doing, it sounds like the Horde has some major happiness problems. I hope that he did not do anything to make the situation worse than it needed to be.

I am wondering if it would be best if we just replayed yesterday's session.

Other suggestions?

Species8472 · March 5, 2001, 14:50

Replaying the session is not an option to me. Yesterdays game has tested my utter limits in patience. I dont want 3 hours of complete bordom be for nothing.

War4ever is not like in a competing area with us, he is so far ahead in the powergraph, that if we would add all our lines up on eachother, he would still be able to compete. War4ever can adapt. it was his own responsibility to find a sub, he chose poorly (or he didnt choose, i dont know how Milo got in) and that is his problem.
[This message has been edited by Species8472 (edited March 05, 2001).]

cavebear · March 5, 2001, 16:29

Ok, yes, many issues to deal with, and some of them, I am of 2 minds about.

I do not want to replay the whole session. Some secrets and strategy was revealed, and it is not fair to them to have to replicate successful tactics and goals.

On the other hand, it is not very fair to War4ever to come back to an Anarchy. That's downright cruel.

This is a difficult situation. When all is said and done, I think I have to call for the game to go forward from the 1130 A.D. point. The Horde are still well up the PG and they have an ally who is doing well. My view is that going forward from last night's position is the best of 2 hard choices.

Second, my sympathy for War4ever for the death in his family. Such things cannot be ignored, and this is only a game. Real world always wins in competition for attention. If we can't allow a person to act on family responsibilities and loss, then I will leave here now.

Thought: We might want to revisit the idea of replaying that last session. I am willing, but not enthusiastic. It *does* appeal to my sense of fair play.

My feeling is that slightly gained in the last session, and I would be willing tio give that up. I also understand that other players may have gained a great deal more and it is not fair to ask then to give *that* up.

I propose the following: If three players refuse to return to 1040, I will declare 1130 the game for the next session. You can declare anonymously or by email, I won't name anyone. After considerable thought, that is the best I can balance things. I will keep my vote secret as well.

"cavebear@erols.com"

We will move on from there...

The game has been going well, all things considered. Let's not lose it over this issue.

Epik · March 6, 2001, 14:05

I would like to hear War4Ever's opinion before voting on this issue.

[This message has been edited by Epik (edited March 06, 2001).]

CapTVK · March 6, 2001, 15:16

I would also like to adress to point to the fact that the Mongols are 3 cities over the limit. Whatever is decided, those cities have to go. If we vote for 1040AD that isn't a problem otherwise it is. I don't care how it's handled but those cities must be removed.

War4ever · March 6, 2001, 20:17

OK not only have i read the replies here..... i have also been icq'd by a few individuals.....

First and Foremost..... my grandmother passed away yesterday and thats a real shame

the game is irrelevant to me at this point...... i have heard what milo did and or did not do .... and i don't care.

I can civ with the best of them and if that means the civ is in dark ages so be it....... I agree that the three cities need to go .... other than that everyone else figure it out.

As for finding a sub..... sorry i got the news , quickly looked on icq and posted in poly..... after that i didnt turn on my computer until now

sorry for the inconvienence.....

I look forward to continuing this game but alas i have a funeral to go to on Sunday as well.......

Therefore i will look this week for a sub or if anyone can find one then thats great too.....

Like Cavebear stated.... Life comes before civ.....

I wish everyone a great week

Species8472 · March 7, 2001, 10:31

I am really sorry to hear this War4ever. My sincere condolances, although that wont help much...

I suggest we skip this sundays session. I think finding another sub will make things even worse for your civ. I dont mind skipping a week, if there is a good reason for skipping, this sure is.

cavebear · March 8, 2001, 17:05

I agree with skipping this Sunday's session. We have had too many subs in too many sessions. I certainly appreciate people who are willing to sub, but too much of that too often starts to make the game feel a bit random and disconnected.

Let's plan on trying to have all our regular players available to go again on March 18th. Does that sound satisfactory?

And I appreciate War4ever agreeing to go with his civ "as is" in 1130. Saves having to make an awkward decision about the current game year...
[This message has been edited by cavebear (edited March 08, 2001).]

Species8472 · March 8, 2001, 22:20

am i a regular player?

cavebear · March 9, 2001, 15:33

<center><table width=80%><tr><td>quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
Originally posted by Species8472 on 03-08-2001 09:20 PM
am i a regular player?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></td></tr></table></center>

Yes, assuming you intended and want to be.

Species8472 · March 9, 2001, 17:19

ok, i was a little confused whether you meant the start players or the current players. ill build a spaceship then.

Epik · March 11, 2001, 11:24

I just wanted to confirm that we will NOT be playing the game today...

Also, is it possible to start the game earlier than 4 PM Eastern time for future sessions? It would be nice if we could get another hour or two of play into each session.

War4ever · March 11, 2001, 14:09

thanks for being understanding today fellas..... i am off to put an issue with my cousin (mercantile) to rest along with the rest of the family.....

it is too bad we can't play a bit earlier..... but this was agreed upon before hand sooooo