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Old November 5, 1999, 17:55   #1
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MISCELLANEOUS v. 3.0- (No Host)

1. Random Natural Disasters
2. Disease & Plagues
3. Era-Based Games
4. Endgame Variants
5. Structure Damage
6. Nomadic Civs
7. Miscellaneous Miscellaneous

1. Random Natural Disasters

1.1) Specific disasters should target specific land types, i.e.: Tornadoes hit grasslands & plains, Tsunamis hit coastal squares, Landslides hit hills & Volcanoes hit mountains. Earthquakes would be either truly random or fall along predetermined fault lines.

1.2) Certain disasters attack specific city improvements, i.e.: Tsunamis take out ports & harbors, floods wreak havoc on aqueducts & sewer systems.

1.3) Two levels of disasters, Major & Minor, one of which is somehow preventable.

1.4) Present disasters as Wrath of the Gods?

1.5) Tech & improvements that would either prevent or lessen the effects of disasters, i.e.: Seismology tech could reveal the predetermined faultlines, if used, or allow a Seismology Center improvement to warn of coming Earthquakes.

1.6) Disasters could kill off a varying number of population points.

1.7) An evacuation order that allows a city to be spared loss of pop. points (but not city improvements) at the cost of stopping the city's production (trade, shields, everything) as long as the evacuation is in effect. This order would become available when and only when a disaster warning has become available.

1.8) Have it so that RND and some Random Events require player intervention: i.e. a flood requires the player to build improvements to end problem; a disease that needs to be tracked to it's source, have a research base set up, and devote a % of research to stop it?

2. Diseases & Plagues

2.1) Cities generate disease pts. based on heat & wetness as described in TILES & TILE IMPROVEMENTS. Hot & wet generates lots of disease while cold & dry generates low. It reduces growth, and at a certain level plague TI's start to appear (like pollution). The higher the total the greater chance and frequency plague TI's will develop.

2.2) The formula is B+(A-D)/2-N=T
B= Base value of the land tiles
A= Adds to disease
D= Subtracted from disease
N= Given # that represents your people's natural resistance & efforts to reduce disease.
T= Total amount. This amount is added to A at the beginning of next turn.

2.3) Things that increase disease levels:
Working high disease value tiles
"Adjacent" cities & trade routes
Larger cities
Warfare, conquest, riots, rebellion
Germ warfare & spy missions
Destroying buildings that reduce disease
Pollution, constructing buildings that increase pollution
Contact with new civs, re-establishing contact w/ a civ
Plague TI's
Units wandering through tiles that cause "damage" to them
A lack of food
Random events

2.3.1) Worked tiles add their total value to B. This includes tiles outside the city area but are having its resources shipped to the city via "supply crawler". Unworked tiles only add 50% of their value.

2.3.2) Disease can "travel" outside of its origin, with a "movement" of about 2 per turn; roads, RR's, etc., affect this. When a disease value encounters a city it compares it's B & A values to that of the city. If the city's combined values are higher then nothing happens, if the city's are lower then the difference is added it's A. Trade routes increase the "movement" speed of the disease along its route. Cities of nations that you haven't met aren't included in the 1st case but are included if there is a trade route going through it. Eventually all cities that are connected in some manner will have approx. the same disease value. (should it have a decrease due to distance; is this programmable?)

2.3.3) Cities add a # to A per pop point. Obviously, larger cities add more.

2.3.4) Each turn a city is attacked & riots reduce the city's ability to prevent disease, as seen by a loss of D. Conquest & rebellion completely prevent D from functioning for the turn the city is conquered or in rebellion. However, an enemy civ may spend money during warfare or conquest to reduce disease in the Target City (see below).

2.3.5) Germ warfare & spy missions simply add a given # to A. Tech can create even higher sums for germ warfare, missions. Siege equipment (catapults, etc.) have an option to use germ warfare when attacking.

2.3.6) Self-explanatory

2.3.7) Polluted tiles add a set # of pts. to A per turn they are in existence. Also, 1 pollution pt. adds 1(?) pt. to A.

2.3.8) Contact new civs: Units have the disease total of their city if the SE choice is uncentralized, or of the nearest home/allied city in it's supply path if centralized. This amount would be listed in the City View & with the unit as well (not available to enemy view unless allied or modern medicine available). When a unit encounters a new civ, it adds it's city's combined B & A to the A of the city it encountered. This usually results in a outbreak of some kind. The unit will transmit it's new total back to it's home city or the nearest one, depending on the above, as long as it is in it's civ's supply grid. If not, it doesn't transmit until re-connected and the unit "holds onto" the B & A values of the new civ. If contact is lost and later re-established, the cities are only considered to be "adjacent".

2.3.9) See Effects (below)

2.3.10) I've suggested elsewhere that units take damage when moving through certain terrain (chariots in mountains, swamp). This damage is different than the above but is partially due to disease so I mention it here.

2.3.11) A lack of food =1(?) disease pt. per "bushel" shortfall. However, these disease pts. don't apply towards reduced growth, as this should be already accounted for in the growth rate.

2.3.12) Random plagues add to A. They can add a few to many pts., and can include instantly generated plague TI's.

2.4) Things that decrease disease levels:
Preventing the above
Working low disease tiles
Change tiles to less disease-bearing ones
Increasing N
Spend cash
Diplomatic missions
Constructing certain buildings-granary, aqueduct, sewers, city walls, water treatment plant?, mass transit, etc.
Population reduction
Certain tech
Random events

2.4.1) N normally = the value of 1a. above. N also increases naturally: each turn that there's a positive amount in T, N increases by 1 point. In the event T is a negative number, N decreases by 1 point. The max number N can increase should have a cap; based on the city size?

2.4.2) Cash is paid to increase D. Some tech-medicine, sanitation, public health, etc.-decrease the cost of buying off a disease point. You could set up a given amount to be paid each turn in high disease cities in the city screen. This should not be cheap.

2.4.3) This is done in the diplomacy screen. You send another civ aid, by 'buying' some pts. in their city's D (as in 2.4.2), or give/lend a disease-preventing tech. This can also be done in a city you're attacking or to any city under attack. You may also suggest to an ally how to set up it’s city to lower disease (see DIPLOMACY).

2.4.4.) Buildings add to D, but only affect certain types of disease modifiers. Granaries reduce disease due to lack of food & famine random events; aqueducts greatly reduce disease in large cities; city walls allow the city to "refuse contact" (below) prior to Medicine (keeps out the diseased), mass transit by reducing pollution, etc. Again, tech may increase the reduction.

2.4.5) Cure for Cancer & Human Genome Project come to mind. They could affect D &/or act as tech (below).

2.4.6) See Effects

2.4.7) Cities under quarantine have all routes to or through them shut down. No units may enter or leave the city area. Units under quarantine outside their home city area are disbanded. This takes the city off the "adjacent city" lists & trade routes. Other cities can "refuse contact" with them; no units from that city or receiving support from that city may enter the city radius, trade to/through it is shut down. This has a % chance of avoiding contact with the diseased city. Quarantining isn't available until the discovery of Medicine.

2.4.8) Tech are subtracted directly from T, after the formula is calculated. This allows N to balance the formula to=0, and then tech can give a negative result. If a civ's technology or a declining N makes B+(A-D)/2-N= a negative number, then that number is added to the growth rate next turn.

2.4.9) Random events can add to D, cause plague TI's to vanish, etc.

2.5) Effects:

2.5.1) Cities: Each city has the same amount of "free" disease resistance (again, similar to the amount of pollution pts. cities can absorb). Once cities go beyond this point, each disease point lowers city growth, and creates a % chance of a plague TI appearing on the landscape. These cause unhappiness in the city, as well as reducing pop growth even more by adding additional pts. to A. Each disease point beyond the "free" level increases the chance of the TI appearing, up to 50%. Once disease pts. go beyond this stage, there is a 50% chance of a plague TI appearing and a smaller % chance of another plague TI appearing! There is no limit to the # of chances of a plague TI generating in the city radius in one turn. These can only be removed by settlers/engineers &/or public works, military units (depending on SE choices), or by a loss of a pop unit. Settlers/engineers must be funded and also cost extra food & support. The loss of a pop point causes one plague TI to disappear. Military units can remove a TI by killing a population point. The unit must be in the city or plague TI. This act is frowned upon by certain societies.

2.5.2) Units: Units have the same disease value as their supply point (as above). They make checks for outbreaks as cities; the difference being that a successful plague TI generation causes the unit to take 1 point of damage*it's "reactor level" (i.e., the 1,2,3, or 4 hp's of units found in civ2 and SMAC) instead. In the event that a unit encounters another civ (1h. above), unit, or populated TI- anything that increases its disease value above its supply point, it will transfer the value to the supplying city, based on distance. If unsupplied, it will "hold" onto the new disease level until reconnecting to its supply route (as above). Any unit in a plagued tile automatically takes 1* reactor damage, except for settlers/engineers that are receiving the extra support to cleanse the tile (they are still subject to normal disease damage). Units that receive support from a city that has plague TI's cannot switch support to other cities. Units receiving support from a plagued city also have their morale reduced.

2.5.3) Populated TI's: Military bases, naval bases, supply depots, farms, garrisoned forts, etc. have a disease pt. level = to the nearest city or the city they receive support from. For game purposes they are immune to disease and all it's effects, with the exception of village TI's. Villages are the only squares that can get a 'disease' icon. Villages with disease icons on them have reduced production and % chance of being destroyed per turn.

2.6) 4 options (for Firaxis, not players) for multiple workers on same tile:
A given tile ,FE, creates 10 disease pts. for the city each turn one worker is on it. If two workers are on it, the city will receive:[list=1][*]10 disease points (as if only one person was on the tile)[*]15 disease points (150% of the norm, which would be diminishing returns on the disease points given to the city)[*]20 disease points (additive, each worker contributes his 10 disease points)[*]25 disease points (the villagers are packed together tighter, and as a result they're going to get sicker)[/list=a]
2.7) Disease cannot be transmitted by diplomats or by diplomatic wonders (United Nations).

2.8) There are 2 examples of how this works in the regular MISCELLANEOUS thread. Several players liked this disease model, while another group thought it was too much work for a minor effect.

3. Era-Based Games

3.1) In Civ 3, you should be able to define an age where all technological development stops, and then play the game to win in that age. Reasoning:
  • Players base decisions on technology that they know they will have, rather than working with what they currently have. That is not historically accurate.
  • Players would appreciate the earlier units more if they actually had to use them, instead of just waiting for something better to come along.
3.2) Incorporate different conditions for winning the game? Based on what age you have defined as the final one; FE, you want the game to end in the Roman era. That wouldn't necessarily mean that you would play a short game, only that after a certain level of technology was reached, no further development would occur. The game could still go on for many turns. A win condition for such a game could be to build a certain wonder, etc. Of course, conquering the world would always count as winning the game.

3.3) For players who love researching opponents to death:
  • Future tech. As civ2, the player only gets points. This one is a requirement at minimum. Or,
  • Further advancement in a current tech. See TECHNOLOGY.
This idea allows for compromise between the futurists, who can have their future tech, and the traditionalists who can have their strictly modern tech.

3.4) Have new starting/stopping points for civ3. Play can be designated to stop at the end of a given era, or start at the beginning of that era. Technology would not progress past the last era (as above); all new tech would be considered "future tech". Especially useful for multiplayer.

3.5) Divide the ages into roughly:
Stone/Neolithic Age
Near future (space stations, fusion power, etc.)
Far Future

4. Endgame variants

4.1) There should be much more variation in the endgame. This could be accomplished be introducing much more drastic Random Events. Depending on how the world looked at the beginning of the endgame, the game could throw in a random event that totally changed the way the player tried to win.

4.1.1) FE, one of the AI players would suddenly start to Nuke it's enemies and other civilizations would counter-nuke, ending in one huge nuclear war. Then if the player survived the war and the following nuclear winter the goal for the player would be to either clean up the planet or surviving by moving to space.

4.2.2) In a very polluted world global warming could set in, with drastic effects to the climate/terrain. As under the nuclear winter scenario, the player must decide how he'll survive.

4.2.3) In a peaceful world or one with the SETI wonder, the game could trigger an alien invasion and the player would have to kick the aliens off the planet, maybe co-operating with the other civs. I don't want to see alien invasions in every single game that I play, maybe just ~5% of the games depending on the various endgames.

4.2.4) The game shouldn't necessarily end when you have survived/kicked out/colonized other planets, and it should be possible to have multiple events in one game (e.g. aliens arriving during a nuclear war).

4.2.5) Other ideas:
Meteor heading for earth (build a “Bruce Willis wonder” )
Minor nations rising, increased minor nation/barbarian and terrorist activity (in worlds with few big and several very small nations)
Apocalypse, obtain salvation for your entire civilization by converting to the right fate (if the religious identity idea is implemented)

4.2.6) Colonizing and terraforming Mars. A second map will be needed.

4.2.6a) The player must have a certain amount of people on Mars. Wonders like the Space Elevator, buildings like Aerospace Complex, or units like Space Transport could increase emigration to Mars.

4.2.6b) The civ must bring oxygen into the Mars atmosphere. This could be simulated by collecting x # of “oxygen points”.

4.2.6c) It would be necessary to decrease the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Forests could decrease the CO2 and then increase the oxygen levels at the same time.

4.2.6d) Warm Mars by 50 degrees. This is necessary to make Mars warm enough for life and also to make ice fluid. This could be simulated by collecting x # of “warmth points”. Every population unit produces 1 warmth point per turn.

4.2.6e) There should be several city improvements speeding up the terraformation. That means Mars should have different unit and building types from earth.

4.2.6f) Even if it isn't your intention to win by colonizing and terraforming Mars, you have a reason to go to Mars. Mars should be full of Minerals and Resources that can be transported to Earth.

4.3) It should be possible to win by other ways than world conquest or a science-based win that really depends on manufacturing resources. What about victory conditions based on demographic factors, such as the eradication of disease, pollution, inequality and unhappiness? It would be great to win just occasionally by building an ideal rural society or a scientific, egalitarian utopia.

5. Structure Damage

5.1) Structures have hit points = to the cost of building them. There would be many methods of damaging structures (below). You would pay gold or you may allocate a portion of your city's shield production for repairs. Any number of structures can be repaired per turn. Effects would be:

0-49% damage =no effect on structure, 1 gold repairs 2 damage or 1 shield repairs 4
50-99% damage =structure disabled. Gives no benefits to city, x2 repair as above
100%=structure destroyed. Must be rebuilt.
A disabled structure will start functioning again once it has been repaired to the 0-49% range, but cost of repair will stay as 50-99% until completely repaired.

5.2) A number next to each built structure in the city screen would represent the total damage, color-coded like units. Green=0 damage, yellow=1-49%, red=50-99%. You would click on the number and a pop-up window would let you repair the items, w/o limit of how many and how often you can repair. Gold is subtracted from your treasury; shields are counted similar to supported units for that turn.

5.3) Game functions:

5.3.1) Spies/saboteurs/sappers: These would inflict little damage to one structure at a time, based on the total hp's of the particular building. Sappers would be limited to city walls. However the successful act of sabotage would prevent the structure from working for, say, 1-3 turns, or 1 turn after the minor damage is repaired.

5.3.2) Catapults/cannons/artillery/howitzer + bombers: Inflict minor amounts of damage to a few structures during bombardment. They may specifically target city walls to do medium amounts of damage, to that structure only. Bombers may specifically target any city building, but may be repulsed by AA fire, fighters, bad weather, etc. Prior to laser-targeting their chances of success will be low.

5.3.3) Floods, fires, riots: Cause low/medium/high damage to some/many structures depending on the city's preparedness. Fires would be limited by aqueducts, wells, etc.; riots by police station &/or barracks, etc. This would also be based on each building's total hp's.

5.3.4) Nukes: Depends on power of nuke. All structures take damage, most in the high range, some will be destroyed. The rest would take medium.

5.3.5) Conquest: Inflicts low/medium damage on most/all structures when the city fell, but rarely will a structure be destroyed when the city is conquered.
low =about 10% damage or 4-7 hp's
medium =about 20-25% damage or 12-17 hp's
high=50-60% damage. Only happens to cities hit with random disaster's that are unprepared, or nuked.

5.4) Other Suggestions:

5.4.1) A "free repair" rate, something like 1 shield × city size each turn.

5.4.2) Add 1 or more to "free repair" for: Con, Bri, Exp, RR, & Aut (Each effects construction technology).

5.4.3) Repairing w/o interrupting current construction by setting % rate.

5.4.4) Pop-up menu (click on improvement) for selling, setting priority for "free" and shield repairs, and buying repairs (set rate in $/turn).

5.4.5) Allow settlers & engineers in city to repair improvements, 2 & 4 shields/turn added to "free repair" rate.

5.4.6) Add another special citizen type: construction crew, adds 2 shields to "free repair," 4 after Exp, like a temporary settler or engineer.

5.4.7) Since most improvements are structures easily damaged by fire perhaps they should not be made too resistant to destruction. Have aqueducts improve the resistance, representing better fire fighting capability. Also improvements with sewers representing an incremental advance in water control structures. Modern water infrastructure would follow.

5.4.8) Why not have % reductions per point of damage?

5.4.9) Pay extra $ to lower spy success. Some buildings should have more hits based on importance, such as city walls and SDIs.

6. Nomadic Civs (a popular idea)

6.1) If you start with Domestication but not Agriculture (possible Starting Advances/Tech), or if you start with Agriculture but in terrain that isn't suitable, you can choose to form a Tribal Unit and become Nomadic instead of starting a City and becoming a Settled Civilization.

6.2) Population growth will be very low, because they produce less food from herding and hunting than farmers can from farming. Their 'user' icon (if a CtP type is used) would not be a farmer, but perhaps a shepherd with a sheep or a herdsman on foot with a cow, and food production/tile would be about 2/3 to 1/2 (just above subsistence) of the farmers'.
On the other hand, the nomadic civ receives bonuses in Military, Nationalism/Patriotism (because they tend to be a very cohesive group and suspicious/contemptuous of outsiders), and Trade. They will not have a bonus, and possibly a penalty, to research, but they can act as Middlemen diffusing or spreading advances from one civilization to another, just as they can act as middlemen trading goods between civilizations they contact.

6.3) The Tribal Unit is the nomadic 'city'. It can move but 1 tile/turn maximum. The Tribal Unit automatically generates a defending military unit when it is formed, since all members of the tribe can fight and their life style gives them some base military skill. The unit will be the basic Warrior at first, later the best Foot Unit the Nomads can build.

6.4) The Tribal Unit can be 'improved' with the following equivalents to City Improvements:

6.4.1) City Wall Wagon Burgh: Has about 1/2 the effect of the city wall, but moves with the tribe,

6.4.2) Marketplace Bazaar: Has 50% more effect than Market, because traders from all over meet and do business there.

6.4.3) Library Shaman's Hut: Has about 25% less effect than the Library

6.4.4) Barracks: Unneeded -all Nomad units are Veterans, or, if a SMAC-system is used, one or two steps higher in Morale than the usual 'green' city folk.

6.4.5) Granary Storage Pits: Same effect as Granary, but also moves with the Tribe.

6.5) Nomadic Units not only start with higher morale, they also have a Reconnaissance ability, represented by a 2-tile vision range (also see COMBAT for different Scouting ideas-Theben). Nomadic horse mounted units have more speed than regular civ mounted units. Nomadic units could be hired by regular civs. The hired units would become the hiring civ's color, retain their nomadic characteristics, and could be used by the hiring civ for any purpose EXCEPT attacking the originating nomads! After x # of turns in foreign service, the nomadic unit would lose its nomad characteristics: the vision range, the extra speed. The cost of hiring the units would be subject to negotiation between players/civs, but would normally be a per turn fee paid to the nomadic or hiring civ directly every turn. Any turn the fee is not paid the hired unit either reverts to nomad colors or possibly revolts and turns Barbarian.

6.6) In addition, there is one Advance peculiar to the Nomads: the Composite Recurved Bow. This bow has a better range than the early bows of civilizations. Only by hiring Nomad (or Barbarian) units with Composite Bows can a 'civilized' state get their benefit.

6.7) If a Nomadic civ conquers a city, it can incorporate the city into its civ. The nomads can also move a Tribal Unit into a city or a suitable city location and 'settle down', turning it into a city (or a bigger city) and becoming a regular civ. Regular Cities that are part of a Nomadic Civ are treated as regular cities in all respects: they can build city-type Improvements and lose their 'automatic' tribal defender unit. Tribal Improvements convert as follows when a Tribe settled down:

Wagon Burgh: is lost
Bazaar: becomes a Market
Shaman's Hut: is lost
Storage Pits: becomes a Granary
The civ as a whole can still form 'nomad' units with nomad characteristics in its Tribal Units, but only regular civ units in its Cities.

6.8) All of this means that the Nomadic Civ is a viable alternative play for gamers in the first 1/4 to 1/3 of the game. They get less and less viable as Gunpowder and advanced Improvements appear in other civs, but in the ancient and medieval time periods or eras they are a real contender both militarily and economically for the gamer who likes to play conquest or trading games. It also provides a chance for the gamer who's starting position sucks: if your starting terrain has a lot of desert, no rivers, no good terrain resource icons, etc, just start as a Tribe of Nomads and start moving to the good terrain, occasionally trading with or whacking other civs along the way!

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Theben (edited November 12, 1999).]</font>
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Old November 5, 1999, 17:57   #2
Theben's Avatar
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7. Miscellaneous Miscellaneous

7.1) Have a menu option that allows player to add into queues from outside the city screen:[list=1][*]Select item to add[*]Select location in queue[/list=a]
7.1.1)Other target city options would allow for entering the same item into multiple queues at once, with a single click of the mouse button. This would greatly reduce micromanagement.

Some options:
  • Select all city queues
  • Target queues of cities in top or bottom of production/money/science/population
  • Target queues of cities with a lot of unhappiness
  • Target queues of cities with a lot of corruption

7.2) Have a "triangular slider" in city view. Within a triangular graphic you would move the dot towards one of the corners of the triangle, depending on what you want your city to concentrate on: food, shields, or trade. As the dot moves, the color inside the triangle would change in respect to which product =which color. Allow player to lock in minimum outputs for resources, along with numeric representation of the 3 production values. Then, with spots for troops garrisoned, supported and in production we can get back to the single-screen city view (as opposed to SMAC with its multiple screens).

7.3) More realistic environment. Jungles that are cut down will reveal at best plains/at worst desert.

7.4) More cultural options for Throne Room, or a return to the Palace-building options of civ1; perhaps have civ-specific city-improvements? Same abilities, just different pictures/icons.

7.5) Have the game require an advanced machine to run (800 MHz, 100 RAM, ½ gig memory to play, etc.); does not want to buy a game that is already obsolete. No comments from other players.

7.6) No drums in opening music for civ3.

7.6.1) Wants older civ2 music available in civ3. (can't satisfy everyone)

7.7) Likes SMAC city prod under city name. Would also like to see food, shields, & trade produced in city from main map.

7.8) Keep interface similar to civ2: all buttons that lead to more info are tucked away. Makes screen less cluttered.

7.9) Have regular civ colors when city is normal, but change when something will happen next turn. This includes a city growing and the result will be disorder. City name turns much lighter shade of civ's color when something good will happen, red when something bad will happen. Only the city name changes color; all other info stays normal. Have a symbol next to the city name telling you at a glance what the event will be. Allows for player to have info about city w/o always having to enter city screen.

7.10) Have interface change as civ modernizes. Have interesting graphics when accessing the map of the world that also change with your modernizing civ.

7.11) Territory explored "returns to dark" until your civ discovers Mapmaking. Also include "Fog-of-war" from SMAC (already suggested elsewhere I'm sure).

7.12) Have realistic portrayal of units and terrain, and/or units/terrain that are easy to identify.

7.13) How about a cool little ICQ flower being embedded to the bar within the game, this way I can stay in contact with people while playing the game. Another suggestion was to allow access to the Windows Start bar during the game, which would solve this problem.

7.14) For the demographics screen, have all (known?) civs' demographics displayed, not just the player's and the one other civ that is being compared.

7.15) It would be better if AI ministers/governors were able to act upon directives from the player as an extra (micromanagement-reducing) layer between you and the city/regional menus. After they have been given tasks or general directives, they present you with their suggested solution(s) that you may accept/modify/decline.

7.16) Have the AI files as separate files, i.e. not integrated into any other files. This allows easy updates to the AI only, without affecting the rest of the game. It will allow Firaxis to release "AI updates" to update the AI without needing to change the other game files.

7.17) More growth modifiers: If you have more then your city size of “shields” and/or trade then the surplus is placed in the food storage box. FE, a size 2 city is producing 3 Shields and 4 Trade. This would add +3 to the growth rate of the city. The city still uses those shields and trade for production and tax/science/luxuries. That way the attraction of trade and industrial centers would be properly simulated.

7.18) Water should be an essential resource like food. Maybe there could be aqueducts and mains water pipes that you could build to transport water to cities. Or squares could provide a certain amount of water in a similar way to food.

7.19) +1 unhappy citizen for every 2 shortfalls in food.

7.20) An option to keep a log of important events for each human player. The log could be kept in memory and spilled to disk when needed. The log could then be viewed or printed out.

7.21) In history most explorers were private individuals, not government owned. Maybe the explorers in Civ3 could be random events, offering maps for money, supplies, sheer nationalism, etc. They might name parts of the explored land after themselves. Another idea would be to put away a certain % of trade towards exploration.

7.22) The game needs to look good to attract new players. Graphics could be similar to the Railroad Tycoon 2 graphics. Cities would be represented as groups of buildings, which you could zoom in to see, or zoom right out to space so they are just colored stars. Improvements would add more buildings to the screen.

7.23) There ought to be some greater benefit to connecting your cities together with a road or rail or air network. Any cities connected by road, rail or air could automatically create trade routes between those cities. You could extend this idea with sea-lanes to link cities across sea as well perhaps.

7.24) There could be improvements that could be built in a city that would allow the trading of manufactured goods. FE, grapes could be turned into wine in a Winery. There could be technologies that allow food to be traded (e.g. salting, canning, freezing). There could be a few different types of food (meat, grain, fish, and fruit). These would be treated the same for feeding the cities, but would be separate trade items.

7.25) Trading overseas could be simplified by making caravans automatically turn into boats to cross the sea. This would also make automating the caravan movement easier.

7.26) Happiness of a city could be linked to the level of tax, the availability of food, the number of luxury city improvements, the range of different goods available through trade, and the level of employment.

7.27) There could be new city improvements relating to using resources to create manufactured goods. These types of city improvements would use up some of the population, so for example if you build a Smithy you can then trade iron goods, but you would have to take one of your population away from exploiting the resources around the city to work in this. The effect would be to create additional trade goods.

7.28) Any people that are not required to gather food or other resources could remain in the city as unemployed (unhappy). They could be turned into entertainers or scientists, but only at a cost. No taxman option, you would have to build places for people to work then get tax from them.

7.29) The unhappiness of a city could reflect the likelihood of a rebellion occurring, so that even with one unhappy person there would be a small risk (e.g. 1%), that would increase with each unhappy person up to 100% if everybody is unhappy.

7.29.1) A city that rebels could attack any soldiers in the city and if they killed them the city would declare independence. Once one does successfully declare independence then that city or region will become a new civilization and can only be captured back by force of arms or the diplomatic means that Civ3 will include (I hope). The risk of rebellion should also reflect whether the city is one you captured from another civ.

7.29.2) You could use spies to smuggle arms to the populations of unhappy cities, so that they would have a bigger chance of overcoming any soldiers stationed there.

7.29.3) Generals and governors should occasionally attempt to seize power in cities/regions and/or of armies.

7.30) Game turns could be a selectable and/or variable number of years per turn, rather than automatically getting shorter as in Civ2.

7.31) The game could be open-ended, so that you can retire at any time.

7.32) Newspaper:
This would be essential for micromanaging, to keep you abreast of what is happening in the world. A sheet that comes up on the whole screen with everything on it that you can scan quickly and pick out bits of interest.

7.33) Artist specialist: Adds small % to trade.

Thanks to:
Ove, Ecce Homo, M@ni@c, Westergaard, Theben, Ember, Itokugawa, donDon, Cosilongo, NotLikeTea, Jimmy, Tornado7, Gregurabi, Technophile, Iceman88888888, Flavor Dave, Jon Miller, Foible, Old Major, Geofelt, Giant Squid, John D Ward, Icedan, Diodorus Sicilus, Mzilikazi, Dr. Strangelove, David James, Croxis, Vassago, Mingko, Radegast2, FinnishGuy, bcr3, Asmodean, markusf, VaderTwo, Ecce Homo for TMing, and all others from List 1 that I haven't mentioned here.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Theben (edited November 12, 1999).]</font>
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Old November 12, 1999, 18:28   #3
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Old November 13, 1999, 08:38   #4
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Hey, we can start discussin' now , can't we?

Anyway, how about incorporating some pieces of Koei's Genghis Khan series into Civ3? Mainly I was thinking about dynastial system and the idea of "Action Points".

Dynastial system is easy. You have a wife. You get kids. Princes can be generals and ultimately one of them will be your successor. Princesses can be wed to foreign kings. Marrying princess of another king would improve your relations with them, but it also means that king has an "agent" in your court, and if your relations get worse, your wife may cause some mischief to you. If there is no princess in sight, you can marry a noble from your lands, this doesn't cause anything special save that now you'd have a wife.

Also, the Action Points. You'd have, say, 100 action points in beginning of turn (when you get older, this number slowly diminishes.) Whenever you issue an command to city or unit, it takes away small amount of action points that turn. Farther away the city is from you (either symbolized by your capital or you as unit, making it possible for you to command large armies yourself) more points it does cost, so large empires would be hard to manage without governors - in the beginning, at least. You could of course give very complicated orders to units such as "Conquer cities of Paris and Orleans, after that negotiate for peace, withdraw if strenght of stack drops to half" - this way you can concentrate on more important issues.

Well. What do you think?
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Old December 7, 1999, 11:05   #5
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Old December 11, 1999, 22:38   #6
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Some random ideas that don't seem to fit in any of the topics:

1) Customized levels - In Civ II each level had a specific number of content citizens, computer production levels, number of beakers per technology advance for both humans and computer players and ai aggressiveness and abilities among other things. It would be good, especially for multiplayer games, if a player could have a slide bar for each of those items (or include additional items such as human production levels of food and shields and trade). This would allow, for example, a diety ai aggressiveness, but chieftain level content citizens, and king level production levels in a single game if the host player wanted it that way.

2)The miscellaneous summary mentioned about specific ages in a game. What would be interesting, especially as many MP games never reach the modern era, is to allow a specific starting age that a host could choose like in Age of Empires. For instance, you could begin a game with no cities as per usual but with technology at a modern level with riflemen, tanks, etc. Or at a medieval era etc.
Old December 12, 1999, 03:30   #7
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To Stefu: What happens when you (the ruler) gets old and dies? Would a prince become the king? (Would you be the prince?) Maybe if there are multiple princes there'd be a civil war of some sort, with princes vying to be king and putting your cities into distress, having peasant revolts and rebellions, turmoil, ect. What if there no prince? End of game (that was a problem with that for me in Genghis Khan II) or what?

If the game doesn't end there could be a new leader. There could be a civil war with generals, nobles, pretenders, usurpers, relatives?, peasant leaders, foreign powers, ect. against each other, other civs supporting one person or another, civs intervening, for example conquest, your own cities fighting aginst ciies that support a different leader or becoming a new civ. The situation would become very messy.

The world is full of chaos!

Where the Beginning meets the End
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Old December 13, 1999, 12:14   #8
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Dstryker: When the King dies the oldest prince becomes the King, and there is small chance of usurper arising. If you don't see your oldest son as fit for some reason, you could choose one of other sons, but that means a LARGE chance of oldest son usurping. If there is no prince, it's end of game - however, since kings live long there is small chance of this happening - if it happens it's because they have all died in war or assasinated or something. I think that there should be possibility of chaos when leaders die and new ones come, but not very big one - it could serve as deterrent of revolution if country is doing bad, but in happy, well-off country there is smallest possibility possible.

BTW, in Democracy there could also be such thing - you could choose one of your advisors as Vice-President and when your presidential term comes up your Vice-President will run against other candidates, his odds of winning based on how you did. If he wins, then you get to continue, if he loses, then it's game over. I'm not sure if this would work well - again, it could be so that you will lose only if you have majorly screwed your country up.
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Old December 14, 1999, 00:15   #9
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On this dynastic rulership business, much as I like the concept of leadership points (which should not simply fall, they might peak in middle age), I think concept is an unworkable one. No-one would accpet instant death just because the then President of the Civ had been fooling around with his secretary, or whatever. You are also missing the fact the rules apply to ALL Civs, including enemy ones. What happens if the President of an opposing Civ loses an election? eh? Does his Civ just disappear? He IS out of the game, after all. No, this is a silly idea. You control the CIVILIZATION, not the RULER. That is what differentiates Civ from a game like Caesar or Pharoh. The leader doesn't matter in the end.

On the other hand I LOVE the concept of Nomadic Civs. That is a just plain great idea and I really hope it gets included. Whilst nomadism will never build you tanks it would be a great way to start the game. Somewhat like playing the barbarians, I guess.

"You're standing on my neck."
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Old December 14, 1999, 11:03   #10
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What happens if the President of an opposing Civ loses an election?
Should be rather obvious - he gets replaced with new president who might or might not have different policies, and the civilization continues to exist. There should be list of leaders for every Civ in case one loses an election. In this case, it would be absurd for Civ to fall - in fact, even in case you lose election your Civ doesn't fall, this only means you are no longer its leader and you cannot control it.

I think that this would be another interesting aspect to game - in current Civ games, you can screw up your country pretty bad and get occasional building sold or occasional riot that is solved next turn by turing one of citizens to Elvis. If elections and usurpers come in, you'd need to look after your civ little better - if civ is unhappy, you may get civil war or kicked out of your seat, so you'd need to look after them better.
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Old December 30, 1999, 10:39   #11
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Civ III should be timeless, time should start when some advance ('Time' perhaps) is discovered and something major happens: type if your civ gets some religious influences, destroying a civilization, building a wonder, whatever. Meaning there could be different years on different places of the world. Also if you use time and meet a other civ (that doesn't have it's own time) it should start using yours. Also at some point the time used by most people should rule over the smaller. Maybe also capturing a capital would change their time to yours.

any comments?
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Old February 29, 2000, 19:04   #12
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Just thought I'd *BUMP* this in case anyone *coughEdNcough* felt like reading through parts *coughdiseaseandplaguescough* of it.

Yes, I am the master of subtlety.
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Old February 29, 2000, 20:33   #13
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I like the idea of disease but I have some questions. How could the civilization grow with a plague striking, especially in the beginning when you have one city? Would exposing a city get every one to turn on you like the planet buster in cmac?
The multiple endings sound cool the game can get old with just the two ways to win. The new map of Mars would be awesome. In the end of Civ 2 if you did really well and want to expand some more all the good land is taken. New planet fixes the problem like in Civ 2 Test of time.
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