The Essential Civ3 - New Ideas

korn469 · February 23, 2000, 16:44

SUBMISSIONS ONLY

Here is where you submit YOUR ONE IDEA for the Essential Civ 3 list.

Guidelines for New Ideas are "anything goes," so long as it is clear how the new idea will enhance the game in Civ2/SMAC terms.

The Essential Civ3 New Ideas list will take submissions until 11:59 EST Wednesday March 1st 2000.

Your idea will be numbered and given its own discussion thread. Current ideas are:

<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000275.html">New Idea #1 Open Source AI by DaveV</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000276.html">New Idea #2 DELETED</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000277.html">New Idea #3 Detailed Replay by Yin26</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000278.html">New Idea #4 Regional Boundaries by EnochF</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000279.html">New Idea #5 Hex Based Map by Grier</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000284.html">New Idea #6 Amazing City View by Tiberius</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000285.html">New Idea #7 DELETED</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000286.html">New Idea #8 Comprehnsive Scenario Editor by Hugo Rune</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000287.html">New Idea #9 Real Combat Screens by Dr Strangelove</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000289.html">New Idea #10 Civilians by Dobermann</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000290.html">New Idea #11 New Difficulty Levels by bcr3</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000291.html">New Idea #12 Regional Boundaries 2 by waynehead</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000296.html">New Idea #13 Universal Log Editor by Aurelius</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000300.html">New Idea #14 Introduction of Tourism in the Game by Zanzibar</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000301.html">New Idea #15 Simultaneous Turns of Play by Adm.Naismith</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000302.html">New Idea #16 Rise and fall of Empires by Matthevv</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000303.html">New Idea #17 Ability to pause during the AIs turn by Steve Clark</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000304.html">New Idea #18 Space Cities by Audevourahn</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000305.html">New Idea #19 New Modes of Victory by carnide_</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000307.html">New Idea #20 Stacked Combat by Atahualpa</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000308.html">New Idea #21 Advanced population dislocation control system by LoD</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000309.html">New Idea #22 DELETED</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000310.html">New Idea #23 Energy by raingoon</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000311.html">New Idea #24 Expanding City Radius by Gearyman</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000312.html">New Idea #25 Improved Trade by Imran Siddiqui</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000313.html">New Idea #26 LASS/CLAS-D Combat by Theben</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000319.html">New Idea #27 Supply Lines by Frank Johnson</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000320.html">New Idea #28 REMOVED</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000321.html">New Idea #29 Religion by Stefu</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000322.html">New Idea #30 Trade Effects Diplomacy by Pythagoras</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000324.html">New Idea #31 DELETED</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000326.html">New Idea #32 Customizability by Glostakarov</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000327.html">New Idea #33 Intercivilization Components by Jon Miller</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000331.html">New Idea #34 Automatic Patrolling by Changmai Beagle</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000332.html">New Idea #35 Domestic Politics by S. Kroeze</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000333.html">New Idea #36 Different Levels of Cities by Napoleon I</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000334.html">New Idea #37 Disease by EdN</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000336.html">New Idea #38 Realistic Effects of Latittude by Civ_Lover1701</a>
<a href="">New Idea #39 Recruitment System by The diplomat</a>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited March 01, 2000).]</font>

korn469 · February 23, 2000, 16:51

please start posting in this thread

shmily_dana · February 23, 2000, 19:00

I would change the concept that if you ar a democracy and you go to war, then your population will be unhappy. I would add the following conditions.

If you START the war, then the people would be unhappy.

If you are attacked, the people will most likely support the counter-attack.

If you don't counter-attack, the people might get unhappy.

If an ally is attacked, your people may demand war against the aggressor.

If an ally attacks and the asks for help, the people may or may not support the war.

raingoon · February 23, 2000, 21:23

Shmily_dana, your idea is actually a "Fix." Please let us know if you had another fix in mind, or if you'd like to repost this in the Fix thread.

Glostakarov · February 24, 2000, 12:50

Customizability. Is that a word? In essence, as much of the game as possible should be able to be toggled on or off, irrespective of difficulty level. This should apply both to normal games and the scenerio editor.

For example, suppose I don't feel like playing with regional politics, or trade, or whatever, I can just switch it off when I create the game. For scenerios, the toggle would be stored with the map as either on, off, or user selectable. An example I saw in another thread was a scenerio where the Earth was being invaded; because the people of Earth would band together they wouldn't want internal politics for that game. In such a case the person building the scenerio could simply switch off that option, so that it isn't used in the game.

Another part of being able to heavily customize/mod a game is the introduction of new units and modify the tech tree. Snazzy, high-res graphics and animated units are very nice, but they make it harder for fans to create their own units. You could include a lot of units in the editor that are not actually used for anything in the game, so we could pick them out and assign them whatever stats we see fit for use in our scenerios. However, a better idea would probably be to create the unit animations in a format that is relatively easy for end users to reproduce. It's still going to take a pretty knowledgeable person to go out and do it, but if the software is easy to plug such animations into, it will happen.

To answer the question in advance, the more that we can do to modify/enhance/enjoy the game, the more replayability it will have. Having more customization options keeps each game from being fundamentally the same as the last.

klesh · February 24, 2000, 14:22

This is an idea I've been pondering. I originally posted this thought in the Civ2Gen/Com, before I realized what this one was all about.
I find it a bit unrealistic that Field artillery, tanks, and ships must be adjacent to the enemy in order to execute an attack. In real life these weapons have the abbility to attack from very long ranges. Is it possible for Civ3to change the attributes of these units? Imagine an attack system for these units(perhaps others) that would be simmilar to the "Paradrop" command. You press perhaps the "a"(for attack) button, then you get a crosshairs pointer(like the parachute icon) that allows for an attack from a few squares away. Battleships maybe three squares, field artillary from two and tanks from one. It seems to me that only infantry should have to risk themselves by getting up close, and personal with the enemy.
This has major implications toward strategy. Imagine parking a battleship within a city and taking out oncoming units which are three squares away!
The argument against this that developed in the other thread is that the atk/def/mov points already take into account the units real life ability. But the Move catagory should be seen that way. Would a battleship go full speed ahead at a cruiser before it attacked it? No, it would fire upon it, and then move into the area. See what I mean? Costal bombardment can now stretch a little inland.
The crosshairs idea can be put on anything with large missiles or cannons.(not medievil cannons, of course)
Mainly I see only the modern units using this new idea.

korn469 · February 24, 2000, 18:03

Field Marshal Klesh,

have you ever played Alpha Centauri? ships and units with the heavy artillary special ability have exactly what you are talking about. since this ideas has already been in corporated in a firaxis civ genre game i do not think that it is a new idea, because the changes you propose are slight. however you could post your idea in the fixes forum. the spirit of the EC3 New Ideas list, is to suggest things that have either not been incorporated in a firaxis civ genre game before or are radically different from the current implementation. if the EC3 list was an operating room, the New Ideas thread is where civ3 would come to get a transplant, the Fixes thread is where civ3 would go to get a broken leg tended to.

your idea is obviously a good one, since the creates of civ3 have already used it in one of their games. however i do not think that it belongs in the EC3 new ideas list. feel free to post it on the Fixes list, and feel free to check out the AC forum to learn more about how firaxis implemented your the bombardment idea.

the thread is current to this post. with New Idea #32 Customizability being the last new idea.

korn469

klesh · February 25, 2000, 01:16

Korn,
Sorry, I've never played AC. I would not've posted if I had known...

korn469 · February 25, 2000, 02:19

Field Marshal Klesh

no problem at all...by the way, if you do have any other ideas...any little dream that you just wished civ3 would have please post it...this is for new fresh ideas that you think would really add to civ3, surely the ranged bombardment isn't the only new idea you had for civ3? surely you have another new idea...feel free to post it

i'm not trying to be a hardcase i am just trying to keep this list with basically new ideas, the fixes list is for improving old ideas

korn469

raingoon · February 25, 2000, 03:19

Field Marshall Klesh -- we want your idea over at Fixes! Cut and paste, pal! I'm ready to post it as soon as you submit it to the Fixes thread!

raingoon

Jon Miller · February 25, 2000, 03:24

Hi all

I would like to see more intercivilization components of the game. That is the weakness that the long empires and ics exploit, that control of your own civ is too easy. I would suggest greatly complicate the interior model with a much more elaborate governing system and citizen system. Where you are not garunteed of the control of your citizens and it is hard to keep it. This idea would provide a whole new range of choices and strategi options (including affecting foreign populations) for the Napolean in all of us.

Also I would like to say that while this is a good idea it is tooo late probably and should not be sent with mandate and maybe should not invlude grand ideas like the one I just mentioneed.

Jon Miller

Changmai Beagle · February 27, 2000, 01:58

Automatic patrolling. Let us set patrol routes the units will follow back and forth. Why? Patrol borders with less units than sentrying, and patrol range of control from airbases and carriers. In CTP - lookout for slavers, etc., with less moves and clicks.

S. Kroeze · February 27, 2000, 08:43

DOMESTIC POLITICS: give the people a WILL OF THEIR OWN

(I know this idea is allied to the CIVilians of Doberman and Jon Millers Intercivilization Components; yet I'll expound my view)

In CivII the people are only a passive element in the game, easy to control and almost 100% predictable. They'll never revolt when -like I do each turn- you meticulously control the factors influencing their behaviour. The only influence they ever exert is on foreign policy.

So domestic politics actually don't exist. Apart from SE I would like to introduce the possibility of spontaneous revolutions, coup d'etats, civil wars, feudal risings, secessions, peasant revolts, colonies declaring independence, famine and tax riots. Most governments spent most of their time just trying to stay in power!

I would like to introduce different levels of political control, like interest, influence, protectorates and actual annexation. And to control a region you would always need the support of the local elite, sometimes priests or the aristocracy, sometimes moneyed interests or local party officials. This would also create the possibility of interfering in the politics of an other great power by supporting the local opposition.

Finally the people should have its own character and loyalty to a religion or civilization, which wil not change easily. So factors like militarism, religiousness and conservative/experimental should be introduced.

GIVE THE PEOPLE A WIIL OF THEIR OWN!!

korn469 · February 27, 2000, 10:35

thread is current to now, the last post being new idea #35 - domestic politics

Napoleon I · February 27, 2000, 20:20

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this idea before and if you have, I'm sorry.

How about having different levels of cities, say a village, a town, a city, and a megapolis. These levels would have progressively greater radii so that they could gather more resources, and the improvements that one can build would also be dependent on the type of city. For example, cathedrals would only be built in a town or above, while superhighways could only exist in a megapolis.

Furthermore, the cities would change status as they grow in population, so that any city below size three is a village, city under size seven is a town and so forth.

I realize that this would cause a problem in the modern times, but I think that a solution can exist. For example a city founded by an engineer instead of a settler could begin at size three or four and immediately achieve the status of a city. Meanwhile, the engineer would also be more expensive to build than a settler.

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Napoleon I

korn469 · February 28, 2000, 04:39

the thread is current to this post, with the last submission being New Idea #36 Different Levels of Cities

korn469 · February 28, 2000, 06:19

bumping this up

EdN · February 28, 2000, 18:24

Disease has changed the course of civilization far more any all the armies that have ever marched. 60% of the casualties in WW1 were from disease not guns. The Native Americans weren't eliminated by european armies but a tiny organism called small pox. Gengis Kahn and Alexander the Great died at the peak of their power - not by war but by disease. With the exception of a single WOW, Civ has always ignored disease.

Here's my proposal:

General disease:
General disease could have an effect similar to corruption. Medicine men/Doctors can reduce the affects (similar to elvii). The amount of disease increases drastically with an increase in population (similar to pollution). Disease levels increase with each unit of food shortage. War increases disease in all cities. Each level of disease increases the chance of Plague.

Plague:
Replace the silly barbarians (OK, some people may like em - I don't) with plague. Plague would randomly strike a city based on its disease level. Plague could spread by road or rail or if a unit is present in a city radius during an outbreak travels to another city. (Could be used as a hidden attack?) Plague reduces the population, suspends production and inflicts damage (without modifiers) to all units within the city radius. As the population decreases the chances of the plague ending increases.

Research:

Herbs & Potions

Domestication (Cats keep disease caring rodents in check.)

Plumbing (Finally a good use for the mysterious Plumbing!)

Alchemy

Modern Medicine

Drugs

Improvements:

Quarantine Zone

Hospital

Units: (battlefield versions of the Barracks)

Red Cross

Mash

Floating Hospital

WOWs

Hypothecatic Oath

Penicillin

CDC (Center for Disease Control)

Cure for Cancer

Well you get the Idea. I'm not a Civ Guru so excuse any misuse of the lingo.

Civ_Lover1701 · February 29, 2000, 01:08

How about realistic effects of latittude and elevation on food production(extremes of tempurature, growing season, ect.), population and such?

-near the poles is pretty unlivible
-near the equator is slightly harsh-heat, sun, rain(floods more likely maybe)
-high elevation has low pressure, cold,etc

At the very least there should be areas where you just cant build or gather resources from(You can't put New York on Mt Everest!!!)

Civ_Lover1701 · February 29, 2000, 01:08

How about realistic effects of latittude and elevation on food production(extremes of tempurature, growing season, ect.), population and such?

-near the poles is pretty unlivible
-near the equator is slightly harsh-heat, sun, rain(floods more likely maybe)
-high elevation has low pressure, cold,etc

At the very least there should be areas where you just cant build or gather resources from(You can't put New York on Mt Everest!!!)

korn469 · February 29, 2000, 14:20

Crustacian

your idea belongs in fixes

the thread is current to this post with the last idea being New Idea #38 realistic effects of latitude

korn469

Crustacian · March 1, 2000, 01:47

I would like to see an option where you could play a "equal start" game where players could choose a game with little or no luck involved at the start.
Something to eliminate the need to restart untill host gets no freebee techs...
Something to where all players can get an equal start if they want to...
Something so that no player is right next to each other if they want...
Something to allow a player to get back in a game if they are booted, yet keep an AI from taking over his Civ if he quits and just eliminate his civ if he quits...
Maybe some way to keep the Ai from messing with your civ if you get booted.
Can there be an option for any of this kind of thing? Hope so...

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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

The diplomat · March 1, 2000, 10:08

problem: in civ2 ans SMAC, war is unbalanced. The current model acts as if you had an infinite amount of population for unit building. You can continue building units, getting them killed, just build more, your cities are completely unaffected. I can wage war as long as I want, and my cities keep growing.

solution: some type of "recruitment system" for building units. Either reduce a city's population appropriately when a unit it is supporting, is destroyed, or implement a system where you only build the weapons and then take some population to form the unit.

solves problem by doing two major things:
- pop is now tied into unit building so losing troops will mean pop loss at home.
- loss of pop will affect economy and industry etc... so affects of war are modeled. (post-war rebuilding)

bottom line: the main ressource in waging war is population and this needs to be modeled.

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.