EC3 Fix #8 - IMPROVED "ROLE" SLOTS

[raingoon]

Seeker:

More and better "role" slots.

[Pythagoras]

User definde role slots! like in all those scenarios with napolean and GW and other commanders, maybe the role of 'command' could be defined which would execute a script called 'command' which might increase morale or something.

[korn469]

Seeker

first can you define what the problem is? is it a significant problem? how does your ideas fix that problem specifically? does your fix effect any other areas of the game? if it does effect another area does it upset game balance in those other areas? is there a simpler way to fix the problem? does your idea hurt gameplay? why out of all of the ideas does your fix belong on this list?

maybe they could look at all of the different ways to play the game and try to build in a "build order" that the AI would play...certain role slots would like certain SE choices and most importantly each role slot must have a prefered way to win, which the AI actively pursues

[Seeker]

Major Signifigance: a lot of the things that we blame on poor AI is caused by the short list of "roles". "attack", for example, is much too simple when a human player knows that certain units are really only good as skirmishers (horseman) while others are heavier.

The ability to tailor the "roles", in addition to more roles, is vital.

Example: a cannon that is 60% heavy attack (heavy attack meaning that it's a high attack, low move, low defense unit and will be used as such ie in groups, along roads/rails, in conjunction with Aggressive Defenders (like Alpine troops)and 40% Active Defender (so that the AI keeps some cannons in cities and uses them to attack adjacent units).

Tailoring could also be used to mix and match special abilities, e.g. a battleship could have the Spy's "sabotage unit" ability, renamed "bombard", a Missionary in a scenario could have only the "bribe" ability ect.

Possible Roles that should be in, considering that each unit has a mixture of roles:

Heavy Attack: a low move, low defense, high attack unit that the AI uses APPROPRIATELY to attack cities, forts, ect.

Aggressive Defender: a role used in conjuction with other roles for units with poor attack, good move, and good defense like Alpine Inf and Mech Inf, used to defend chokepoints and protect Heavy Attack units (ie Alpine Inf on mountain next to city)

Active Defender: a role that instructs the AI to keep a certain percentage of the flagged units on "active defense" ie cannon.

Garrison: a purely defensive role, the AI entrenches these units in cities and forts ie rifleman, pillbox in scenarios.

Skirmisher: role for units that are high move, low defense, low attack like horseman. AI uses them to attack unfortified units and exposed weak units like settlers (the horseman)

Patrol: having this role for a unit allows the player/AI to define a "patrol" like in Empire Deluxe.

Specialized Roles:

Naval Attack: This non-sub unit role will attack only naval units X% of the time (to prevent the mass death of AI destroyers, allows torpedo bombers in scenarios without the sub slot)

City Attack: If the AI takes random X losses, it will build more (X) of units with this role in their description ie howitzer, combat engineer ect.

Please post any other roles you can think of.

[korn469]

i had no idea you were talking about unit role slots...i'm glad you explained that

[Seeker]

I believe a better role system, in conjunction with trade, scenario editor, and multiplayer, is what Civ 3 needs.

[Seeker]

There are NO other role slot ideas?!!

This seems to have jumbled together roles and abilities. If you have a Missionary unit that has only limited spy abilities it would still be in a spy role.

SMAC already separates colony function from terraforming function. But it can't hurt to include these as separate roles, since a colony unit could be allowed the terraforming ability.

I don't think Patrol should be a role. Both attack units and defense unit may be effectively used this way. Patrol (or a closed GoTo loop) should be a command available. It's up to the programmers to make the AI use it properly.

I really like the idea of primary and secondary roles. That would allow much more flexibility for the AI to work with.

[Seeker]

You misunderstood. If you can mix what a units roles are in a single unit than you can have a single unit that is "attack x%, patrol x%, active defense x%". The percentages are set by a human in the Scenario Editor and reflect how often the AI will use a kind of unit for a kind of role. Thus, of all the AI bombers, a certain pre-set percentage are patrolling, attacking (ground or sea), or on active defense at any one time.

I believe that the ability to edit and MIX the roles should be a part of a good Scenario Editor.

Look at Empire Deluxe to see what I mean by patrolling, ie with waypoints, continuous, stop on enemy contact/don't stop on enemy contact...not just a "go to" command.

[Dienstag]

Good ideas guys. I like the extra roles seeker came up with, and the idea that each unit can be a mix of roles.

Here's the roles suggested so far:
-Heavy Attack
-Aggressive Defender
-Active Defender
-Garrison
-Skirmisher
-Naval Attack
-City Attack
-Spy
-Colony
-Terraforming

And some more I present for your consideration:
-Aggressive Attack (Cavalry, Tanks)
-Reconaisance (Explorer)
-Transport (Transport)
-Trade (Caravan, Freight)
-Long Range Expendable Attack (Cruise Missile, Nuke)

And here is my wish-list for when they straighten out the naval and air combat:
-Anti-Ship (Battleship, Sub, Fighter/Bomber)
-Anti-Sub (Destroyer, Cruiser, Sub, Fighter/Bomber)
-Naval Anti-Air (AEGIS Cruiser)
-Nuclear Second-Strike (Sub)
-Tactical Air Attack (Fighter/Bomber)
-Strategic Air Attack (Bomber)
-Air Defense (Fighter, AAA)
-Air Transport
-Air/Space Recon (Spy Plane, Spy Satellite)

I know this can be improved a lot, so please share any ideas....

-Dienstag

[Seeker]

Re: Final Draft

I believe that the ability to edit and mix "role" slots should definitely be a part of a good Scenario Editor, and I submit that "Improved Role Slots System" should be considered as a part of "Comprehensive Scenario Editor".