UPDATE***the first phase of the EC3 List is complete! - Page 2

raingoon · March 9, 2000, 17:33

Korn469,

Understood. Nobody asked for the Disease Final Draft except me. I didn't write it, just re-posted it. But as a former co-manager I may be disqualified from posting for others and will stop doing so until they ask me to.

Regarding "Religion" by Stefu. He actually DID send me an E-mail version of final draft asking me to edit, etc. I assumed he knew to post it himself, but since he did not he must have assumed that sending it to me was as good as posting it. So I went ahead and posted his Final Draft just now.

Pythagoras · March 10, 2000, 01:34

err... wheres the new ideas past 13 in the voting thread...

FinnishGuy · March 10, 2000, 04:17

Huh, you are still adding new candidates after voting has started? Well I guess that then means we who have already voted can change our votes? I sure am changing now that "No more instant city conversion" fix is in too.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by FinnishGuy (edited March 10, 2000).]</font>

Thunderfall · March 11, 2000, 03:58

hi, please consider possible inclusion of a campaign feature in civ3 as an "essential civ3 idea". I started a thread on this in the general civ3 forum.

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/001208.html

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>If you have played the heroes of might and magic series before, you know the importance of campaigns in term-based strategy games...
I think in addition to the random game generator, Civ3 should contain at least 2 campaigns (e.g. One good campaign and one evil campaign) that depict the rise of a Civilization. Each campaign should have approximate 10 scenarioes and a connected storyline. in the beginnning of each scenarioes, players should not need to build an entire empire from scratch; some cities and military units should be given.

If other term-based strategy games can have campaigns, why not civ3? Can this be an essential civ3 idea?

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>It's true that no civ is truly good or evil. I would suggest that they use "fictional civilizations" when they make good/evil campaigns. If they depict real civilizations (english, indians, russians...etc, etc) as evil, you can bet they would lose some market in those countries.

Again, campaigns are not very difficult to make. All they need is a good story and connect different scenarioes together. We have seen Firaxis's creative storyline in Alpha Centauri... It should not be difficult for them to write a few interesting and coherent stories for the campaigns. I think it would be a significant new feature if they include it in civ3.

Imagine that: suppose each of the 2 campaigns comes with 10 scenarioes, we would have 20 scenarioes to play with as soon as we open the box!

Everyone know (the original) civ2 didn't come with enough scenarioes... This was actually a major complain from civ2 fans.

Let's make campaigns an essential civ3 feature!!
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

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Thunderfall
Civilization Fanatics' Center

korn469 · March 11, 2000, 04:00

the following final drafts were added to the EC3 list

No more instant city conversions submitted late by father beast
New modes of victory added at Steve Clark's request
Religion added because the final draft was lost in a miscommunication on where to post it (sorry Stefu)
Diplomacy added by Bill's request via email

if you have any questions, comments or constructive critisms please let me know, my email address is korn469@mindless.com or you can post anything on your mind about the EC3 here

korn469

korn469 · March 11, 2000, 04:06

Thunderfall,

check out the idea on a comprehensive scenario editor, then check back with me and see what you think of that idea...

remember only five ideas from each list are getting included in the final EC3 list

do you think your idea is original (not already included in the voting list) and do you think your idea is essential?

seeing how the time frame to add new ideas and not final drafts was over ten days ago if i did add your idea to the list it would be a major exception and i would have to have very good reason for that

korn469

S. Kroeze · March 12, 2000, 08:48

Dear Korn469,

Could you please restore the last words of my final draft (viz.CHANCE EXISTS) to its proper place. Doubtless you did wipe it out by accident. Yet I think it does quite efficiently summarize part of my argument!
There is after all a chance it will be sent to Firaxis.

No hard feelings, thanking you in advance,

S. Kroeze

korn469 · March 12, 2000, 18:20

S. Kroeze

it was not an accident i purposely removed CHANCE EXISTS because i thought it was part of your signature which are not included in the final drafts...however since it was part of your summary i will put it back in

korn469

korn469 · March 12, 2000, 18:56

S. Kroeze

the thread has been closed and i cannot edit my posts...however if your idea does make it on the final list i will add CHANCE EXISTS back into your final draft

i went back and looked at the thread and the joker in the post below yours said he was joing to add CHANCE EXISTS to his signature so that confused me...i'm sorry for any inconvenience

korn469

Zanzibar · March 14, 2000, 11:00

Who win and who lose

The question is: what are we going to do with the ideas that won't qualify for the top10? I counted approximately the votes in the Fix list, and the results are quite interesting:

Trade - 67 votes
Make it Hard for Civs to Last - 48 votes
Road & rail rules - 46 votes
Scenario Editor - 45 votes
Diplomacy - 43 votes
News reports - 41 votes
No more instant City conversions - 35 votes
Amazing City View - 27 votes
... and so on

As you can see, the differences between the number of votes are very small. So, if we are going to send the top5 fixes list, Firaxis won't know that 50% of the Apolytoners have voted on "news reports", almost the same number of them for " No more instant City conversions", etc.
If we don't want to lose a lot of great ideas I say we should send a supplement of the Top10, with the rest of the proposals (and maybe with the percentage of votes they got). I know that the whole idea of "Essential CIV3" was based on the proposal to send only the top10 ideas to Firaxis, but I think because of the manner we treated the entire nomination process, there are only essential ideas in the contest!

raingoon · March 15, 2000, 15:20

For those worried their favorite idea won't make it on the list by only a few votes, there is a final phase of this process that will give you a chance to consider how you feel about what remains.

Remember, once the final 10 have been determined, they will be posted to give everyone a chance to consider whether they represent the "Essential Civ 3" or not. YOu can vote them down if you feel it isn't worthy of being called "EC3." And if -- I believe it's a 3/5ths majority -- vote that it is, then you can be sure your opinion truly did not fairly represent the greater group of players.

Korn469, correct me if any of that is wrong and I think extending the current voting in the manner you describe is a good idea.

raingoon

korn469 · March 15, 2000, 17:59

raingoon,

yes that is correct...

also the EC3 list is just as valid as any of the other lists, the process that went into making the EC3 list is a little different from the other list but so as not to overemphasize the EC3 we will also be sending some other things with it

the EC3 list will be the top 5 fixes and the top 5 New Ideas it needs a 60% majority to pass...this will be the list we bring to firaxis's attention saying the majority of civ3 fans on apolyton liked these ideas

it will have a cover letter describing the process we took to make the EC3 list and will give the general principles of the list

and there will be a referal page that comes with the EC3...it will basically be "if you liked the ideas in the EC3 here are some other ideas you might like" and it will include all of the EC3 ideas with the number of votes they got, and for each of the fixes/new ideas that makes the final EC3 list we will send the corresponding+applicable section of THE LIST to firaxis

is that an agreeable situation to everybody?

korn469

Zanzibar · March 16, 2000, 01:01

Did somebody read my earlier post ? (just above this one)

Grier · March 16, 2000, 01:28

I think youre right and no thats not just my way of ensuring that my idea gets sent. Honest. No realy.

MadWoodster · March 16, 2000, 01:39

Zanzibar, surely it will also be based on what position in the top 5 of peoples list an idea came eg.
first idea gets 5 pts
second idea gets 4 pts, and so on,
or even a variation on this.

korn469 · March 16, 2000, 01:42

though we will only include 10 ideas in the EC3 list we should definantly tell firaxis that the voting was fierce and provide them with the cut list...ideas that didn't make the cut but were included in the voting...my computer was down yesterday so i just got back on today...but what i wanted to say was that me and markg have talked about extending the deadline for voting for one week...and if the voting threads go dead for two days then we end the voting process...so this will give more people a chance to get their voice in the EC3 list process...

anyone have any feedback? please tell me

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The OpenCiv3 website
korn469

korn469 · March 16, 2000, 01:46

madwoodster

there will definantly not be any weighted point system...all votes count the same

and all ideas should come in numerical order (1,2,3) for easy vote counting and not in favorite order (2,1,3)

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The OpenCiv3 website
korn469

Adm.Naismith · March 16, 2000, 07:28

Looking at the actual votes numbers, I have a strange feeling I would share with you:

I used to think that lot of Apolytoner agree that we need some radical ideas to have a CIV 3 instead of CIV 2.5

Now I'm surprised to see that almost half of our candidate Essential of Civ 3 are, well, not so Essential

I'm not here to tell mine and ChrisShaffer idea (Simultaneous Turn of play) is better than others (Oh well, cough, cough

), but I would accept easily to be crushed by a new, freshly discovered 10-3-3 tank than by some old 1-3-1 Phalanx in new clothes

Well, just a tough before it's too late.

BTW Korn, about the rules, no problems by me.

Crustacian · March 16, 2000, 10:51

Yes Korn sounds good to me.

Adm.Naismith says:
'Now I'm surprised to see that almost half of our candidate Essential of Civ 3 are, well, not so Essential'
Remember that an essential thing does not need to be radically differant to be important. This game is already great, and just needs to be improoved a bit to do what it trys to already do more fully.
Not that I would be against a new and radically differant civ game, but am basically happy with what we have with a little work.

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The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

Zanzibar · March 17, 2000, 02:10

Looks good, Korn!

March 17, 2000, 07:05

When, exactly, is the third phase ending? Isn't it time to, soon? The deadline was 2 days ago...

korn469 · March 17, 2000, 07:34

it was markg's idea to extend the third phase a week and when i asked for feedback on the subject most people said it sounded fine

so it will end on wednesday March 22, 2000

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The OpenCiv3 website
korn469