The Final Voting Results of the EC3 List

korn469 · March 23, 2000, 15:21

EC3 Fixes - Candidate List

1. Trade - 105
2. Diplomacy - 86
3. Make It Harder For Civs To Last - 73
4. Comprehensive Scenario Editor - 72
5. Improved Road & Rail Rules - 72

Others Receiving Votes:

6. Bring Back News Reports - 52
7. No more Instant City Conversions - 52
8. Amazing City Veiw - 42
9. Faster Smoother Graphics/Interface - 35
10. Multiplayer Startup Option - 26

korn469

ps New Ideas will be up shortly

March 23, 2000, 15:53

Very good, nothing questionable. #6 is a good 20 point margin below #5, which won't cast a shadow of a doubt on the "correct" picks. Than you for all the hard work, korn (and reismark)!

korn469 · March 23, 2000, 16:47

ok this was was a close one! here's what i got

EC3 New Ideas Candidate List
1. Rise and fall of Empires - 75
2. Domestic Politics - 63
3. New Modes of Victory - 52
4. Energy - 48
5. Stacking - 46 TIE
5. Religion - 46 TIE

Others Receiving Votes:

7. Open Source AI - 44
8. Expanding City Radius - 43
9. Detailed Replay - 41
10. Hex Based Map - 40
11. Simultaneous Turns of Play - 36
11. Different Levels of Cities - 36
13. Recruitment System - 29
14. Automatic Patrolling - 23
15. Tourism - 20

korn469

raingoon · March 23, 2000, 17:17

Excellent job, Korn. People should keep in mind that, should the final EC3 be approved, the other ideas receiving votes will also be brought to Firaxis' attention.

March 23, 2000, 17:26

cool stuff, great work!
someone reind me what we do after this

korn469 · March 23, 2000, 17:29

ok i was looking over the winners and

<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#6">New Idea #6 - Rise and fall of Empires</a>
and
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#5">Fix #5 - Make It Harder For Civs To Last</a>

are very similar ideas...not identical but could definantly be intergrated into one idea

so in order to keep the list to ten ideas and to not duplicate ideas how does this sound...putting those two ideas into one idea and sending it with the fixes threads...

S. Kroeze and Matthevv could you write one single final draft for that purpose?

korn469

korn469 · March 23, 2000, 17:40

MarkG

ok the next step is for you to put up a poll that says something to this effect

"are the ten ideas presented in the EC3 list essential for Civ3 to be Civ3 and not be Civ2.5"

we need a 60% majority to send it to firaxis...basically this is a chance for people to vote down the EC3 list...in effect to say that these ideas are not essential

if it gets the majority then i'd say that people feels these ideas are essential and then we send them to firaxis

korn469

S. Kroeze · March 23, 2000, 18:18

I don't object on principle, but I want to emphasize that Matthevvs idea on its own merit arrived at first place in the New Ideas list, where- because voters could choose from fifteen ideas- competition was much fiercer, by a substantial margin. So it should be made clear to Firaxis that his idea obviously has a high priority, far greater than my own idea or Religion. (just an example; nothing against Religion, I voted for it!)

Of course I believe in my own idea (Make the game a REAL CHALLENGE!) and from the core community it has got a lot of support/votes; they voted during the first days. The occasional visitors seemed rather indifferent and probably prefer an easy win!

Thanks everyone who supported my idea(s)!

Another remark: it was because of a strange coincidence that in the Fixes list there was no possibility to vote for better AI! For shame! The person who originally did send it in, actually blocked its addition to the finale list. I believe that my fix is one of the few drafts that mentions this wish, though only casually.

A final consideration: the voters more or less proved their consent with the ideas as drafted in their current phrasing by Matthevv and me; when we make a new draft, wouldn't that be deception of the electorate?

March 23, 2000, 18:30

hmmmm... is the poll really necessary? it seems to me that one is accepting the vadility of the list just by participating in the final vote....

Seeker · March 23, 2000, 19:41

Not that I don't support the List but...I can't believe that simultaneous turns aren't in there!!

korn469 · March 23, 2000, 19:56

well if you think that we should send the list as is no poll and 11 items on it because of the tie then i'm all for it...i'm just glad we finally got it over with!

korn469

March 23, 2000, 20:07

perhaps we should make a poll on the issue...

raingoon · March 23, 2000, 20:32

After reading Sid's message, I am convinced that Sid wants Civ 3 and not Civ 2.5 -- send the EC3 list or not, I think all will be well in the end. I wouldn't want people to feel misrepresented, but if you send the list with an account of the voting and what the tally for each item was, including the "also-rans" then that seems unassailable.

korn469 · March 23, 2000, 21:27

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>We look forward to your continued feedback and greatly appreciate all of the time, energy and ideas you've put into creating this list. We hope to make Civilization III reflect a lot of your ideas.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

That's from Sid's message...so here is what i have to say about the EC3 List...lets bag it, tag it, and send it to Sid

The EC3 List

Fixes
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#1">1. Trade - 105</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000283.html#9">2. Diplomacy - 86</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#5">3. Make It Harder For Civs To Last - 73</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#2">4. Comprehensive Scenario Editor - 72</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#4">5. Improved Road & Rail Rules - 72</a>

New Ideas
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#6">1. Rise and fall of Empires - 75</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#11">2. Domestic Politics - 63</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000305.html#14">3. New Modes of Victory - 52</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#8">4. Energy - 48</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#7">5. Stacking - 46 TIE</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000321.html#8">5. Religion - 46 TIE</a>

others receiving votes

Fixes
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#3">6. Bring Back News Reports - 52</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000315.html#16">7. No more Instant City Conversions - 52</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#8">8. Amazing City Veiw - 42</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#6">9. Faster Smoother Graphics/Interface - 35</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#7">10. Multiplayer Startup Option - 26</a>

New Ideas
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#1">7. Open Source AI - 44</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#9">8. Expanding City Radius - 43</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#2">9. Detailed Replay - 41</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#3">10. Hex Based Map - 40</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#5">11. Simultaneous Turns of Play - 36</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#12">11. Different Levels of Cities - 36</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#13">13. Recruitment System - 29</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#10">14. Automatic Patrolling - 23</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#4">15. Tourism - 20</a>

korn469
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited March 23, 2000).]</font>

Seeker · March 23, 2000, 21:56

Go for it!!

raingoon · March 24, 2000, 01:49

YEah, do it -- although I say keep the votes but take out the numbering and whether it's a fix or a new idea -- just have it say Essential Civ 3 and then the 11 items, followed by the alternates.

FinnishGuy · March 24, 2000, 03:49

Yeah go ahead, send it!

You know, Sid addressed the issues in my proposition (faster graphics/interface) in his message already. So I can't feel too bad about not making it into top 5.

Atahualpa · March 24, 2000, 03:56

Great!

I hope you not only send the top 5 ideas, but the others as well (like now under: others receiving votes).
I dont want the OpenSource AI idea to be completely gone (or the Recruitment idea).

aTa

ChrisShaffer · March 24, 2000, 04:01

Send the whole list, votes and all, winners and alternates.

Grier · March 24, 2000, 04:13

I agree send the list as is, then we can get onto the serious bussiness of campiagning our new ideas for civ-4.

p.s I blame the defeat of HEX-based maps on a lack of campaign time and the late rush of votes that knocked my idea from 4th to 10th. Still i'm not bitter at least I beat simultanious turns of play ;>

Adm.Naismith · March 24, 2000, 06:32

Korn, I like your index and I support the idea of sending the whole result.

Seeker, an italian coffee "espresso" is on the way to thank you for support

Grier, what do "simultaneous turns" against you, that you are so angry with us?

------------------
Adm.Naismith AKA mcostant

korn469 · March 24, 2000, 10:06

well MarkG where would i send the List to? or do you want me to write a cover letter and you send it? either way is fine

korn469

Zanzibar · March 24, 2000, 10:31

I think we did a great job, guys! And, with the recent message from Sid, I think this list has great chances, too. So, I'm happy!

. Thanks for everybody who worked on it.

March 24, 2000, 11:29

yeap, mail it to me and I'll forward....

Theben · March 24, 2000, 23:04

Whether or not you use the essentials for a new poll, I think it's time to replace the old one. Either that or use the space for something new, Mark.

korn469 · March 27, 2000, 16:01

My grandfather had a series of mini strokes over the weekend and has been hospitalized, so i was wondering if somebody would write a good cover letter for the EC3 list and send it markg...

raingoon? anybody?

here is the list and the final tallies just click on edit to see them in code form

The EC3 List

Fixes
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#1">1. Trade - 105</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000283.html#9">2. Diplomacy - 86</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#5">3. Make It Harder For Civs To Last - 73</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#2">4. Comprehensive Scenario Editor - 72</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#4">5. Improved Road & Rail Rules - 72</a>

New Ideas
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#6">1. Rise and fall of Empires - 75</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#11">2. Domestic Politics - 63</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000305.html#14">3. New Modes of Victory - 52</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#8">4. Energy - 48</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#7">5. Stacking - 46 TIE</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000321.html#8">5. Religion - 46 TIE</a>

others receiving votes

Fixes
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#3">6. Bring Back News Reports - 52</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000315.html#16">7. No more Instant City Conversions - 52</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#8">8. Amazing City Veiw - 42</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#6">9. Faster Smoother Graphics/Interface - 35</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000342.html#7">10. Multiplayer Startup Option - 26</a>

New Ideas
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#1">7. Open Source AI - 44</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#9">8. Expanding City Radius - 43</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#2">9. Detailed Replay - 41</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#3">10. Hex Based Map - 40</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#5">11. Simultaneous Turns of Play - 36</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#12">11. Different Levels of Cities - 36</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#13">13. Recruitment System - 29</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#10">14. Automatic Patrolling - 23</a>
<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000343.html#4">15. Tourism - 20</a>

thanks for any help! i will be gone for a fews days and i will see you then!

korn469

S. Kroeze · March 27, 2000, 17:53

Since my fix #5(Make it Harder for Civs to Last= Make the game a REAL CHALLENGE!) will be included in the list sent to Firaxis, I have a small request.
My original final draft ended with:
<font color=red>
CHANCE EXISTS!
</font>
In my view this was a quite essential final remark, summarizing my idea. Please, do me a favour by restoring it to its proper, original place!

Thanking you in advance!

S. Kroeze

eisduotres · April 4, 2000, 21:00

I have to say that of all the fixes voted in, #3 is by far the most crucially paradigm - shifting of them all.

I have yearned for the day when the structure of the monotonously ever-expanding Ego-Civ would be smashed to pieces, just as the Unitred States will be someday (heh, heh, guess what the Ego-Civ paradigm resembles?)