THE MANUAL/HELP FILES (ver1.0): Hosted by Travathian

Travathian · May 21, 1999, 21:48

Here's your chance to voice your opinion on what you'd like to see as far as help files, the manual, and any sort of foldouts included with the game.

So far, the following has been recommended:

-an index for the manual
-a tech tree foldout
-reference cards
-tech tree viewer with the help files
-no instruction manual at all, just have it on disk (definitely up for debate)
-a research goal option (similar to Civ II)
-scripting explanations/help files (similar to Fantastic Worlds)
-brief historical bit on each civ in the instruction manual

[This message has been edited by Travathian (edited May 26, 1999).]

yin26 · May 21, 1999, 21:54

Travathian,

Welcome aboard! This is one of my favorite topics. I'm one of those guys who actually likes to read the manual before I play (imagine that!). Here's an important one:

An INDEX!!!

I shall simply refer you to SMAC's manual to see what confusion a missing index can cause.

Also, Travatian, I forgot to mention: You'll need to keep track of all the names of people who post ideas in your threads. That's a vital part of the Lists that will be sent to Brian. Paperwork, I know!

------------------
CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

Travathian · May 21, 1999, 21:55

I'll start things off. I'd like to start off with the electronic help. I really like the three introductory help scenarios. Definitely would like to see these included, as well the walkthrus for things like the design workshop, city screen, etc which were incorporated into SMAC. I thought these were awsome for first time players, as well as us veterans who looked at SMAC and said 'what the heck did they do!' Since the interface had changed somewhat.

Koyaanisqatsi · May 21, 1999, 22:04

As I've mentioned in the technology thread, a good tech tree viewer is important. I think if it was integrated into the online help, and available whenever you need to pick a new tech to research, it would clear up a lot of confusion.

Also, I found the SMAC datalinks quite helpful, if a bit confusing at first.

Travathian · May 21, 1999, 23:54

How does everyone feel about a technology tree foldout? Or is it better to just have an electronic one?

Index cards (maybe 8x11 laminated) which show terrain improvements, SE choices, combat modifiers, breakdown of the civs bonuses/penalties?

evil conquerer · May 22, 1999, 18:34

Yes, keep the tech tree! That is probably the single biggest timesaver in the whole game. Once I know the game well, I find the tech tree more useful than the manual itself. Of course, Firaxis shouldn't skimp on either (and they sure don't! :-)).

Index cards would be cool; I'm not sure how much I would use them because I haven't had any experience there. My first impression is that it would be too hard to find the specific card you're looking for in that big stack. Still, the concept is out there -- Maybe there's a way to pull it off.

Also, I'd like to second the motion for an index. That was the one flaw in an otherwise superb manual.

Travathian · May 23, 1999, 02:57

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of like 3 reference cards, each about 8x11 (the size of the box).

One would have terrain improvement breakdown, detailing the effects of each type of improvement on each type of land, as well as time frame; the back side could show combat modifiers, the various chasis, weapons and armor upgrades and unit special abilities.
The second card could list the various SE choices, since from reading some of the other posts, a lot of people want more options when it comes to this, so this card could show the combinations; on the back it could have the factions listed with a very brief bio on them (agression level, starting techs, goals, etc)

And a third which both sides would simply list all of the techs alphabetically, and the affects each one gives, similar to what pops up when you learn the tech (new city improvements, units, wonders, etc).

As far as the index for the manual, at this point I'd say there is no debate.

How does having a big foldout tech tree sound, possibly a map of Earth on the back? Or a seperate foldout for it, or no map?

Ralph · May 23, 1999, 17:27

In addition to a big colourful tech-tree/units/terrain-tile poster – also add a cheap small A4-sized black/white version of the tech-tree itself, so the player can use that to make Xerox-copies.

I did some A4-sized Xerox-copies of the tech-tree in CIV-2, and then used a fluorescent pen to more easily keep track on my science-progress.

LordStone1 · May 23, 1999, 18:06

I posted this in the "Other" thread but then I saw this....so here's my post...again!

I just want to say that the Civ III manual should be the same size as the CivII one, with nice and big-font words and easy to read, not like the encyclopedia-like with columns and size 8 font SMAC manual, nor the anorexic CTP forum. Lots of pictures, too!

NotLikeTea · May 23, 1999, 22:36

I found that while the CIVII manual was bigger than the CIV manual, I disliked it more. Why?

The II manual was all techie, and boring. How to move a unit. How to change the production. However, the original manual was actually fun to read. It had little historical bits, which is a real necessity for a historical game. It gave context, and a sense of atmosphere to the game, more so than was present in the sequel.

I say bring back the enjoyable read while including the techie reference.

Travathian · May 24, 1999, 17:51

I'd have to say I disagree with this, I kind of liked having the explanation of how to do everything in the CIV II manual. But then again, with all of the various walkthru's and learning scenarios in SMAC, maybe less of the manual could be dedicated to this, if these were developed for CIV III.

What is everyones feeling as far as the learning scenarios in SMAC, the Explore, Build, Conquer ones. Also, the walkthru's of the various screens (city screen, design workshop screen, etc).

Should these be included in CIV III?

Any changes? More info, less info?

Anyone think Firaxis should just do away with the hardcopy, and put it all on the disk? Maybe put it in .pdf format so that its easily printable and viewable. I'm sure this could definitely cut down on costs, and installation instructions would be included inside the jewel case.

Blade Runner · May 24, 1999, 18:13

IMHO a tabbed notebook is better than 30 or 40 cards. Maybe the best is to get a little folder with a clip so you can change the order of the pages, but most likely nobody lost any of the cards (pages).

Mo · May 24, 1999, 19:49

I dislike the idea of putting all out on disk. That is what the in game help like the datalinks from alpha centauri is for. I really liked the Civ II poster. The 8X11 card are a good idea but they should still include a poster of all the techs.

Travathian · May 25, 1999, 03:11

How about interactive help files integrated into a website.

I remember Starcraft's help files had solutions built in, but also had built in links to their website if you needed more info.

Paul · May 25, 1999, 04:57

There is one option from Civ2 that should come back: the research goal button. I really loved that: "I want to get Monarchy", "Then we should research Alphabet or Ceremonial Burial". With CTP and SMAC I always have to take that poster to see what I have to research next, so the goal button should come back.

Sieve Too · May 25, 1999, 16:08

Definitely need a printed manual. That way I can learn the game without having to sit in front of the computer. Online help is nice but is not a substitute for a decent manual. Let's face it. It's much easier to thumb and skip through a printed manual than click through an online one. And until the day we all have 42 inch monitors, the help screen just overlaps and clutters up the game.

Travathian · May 25, 1999, 18:00

Does anybody want historical information about the civs included in the manual like in Age of Empires? I kind of thought the info was interesting, but if the number of civs gets too high, it could be just a short blip about em.

DanS · May 25, 1999, 23:41

INDEX -- Add my voice to yin26's call for an extensive index. The sad fact is that I hardly used the SMAC manual because it didn't have an index. I like the Civ II manual very much.

SCRIPTING/SCENARIO LANGUAGE -- This should be addressed, even if superficially and at the back of the manual. A broad overview plus a short synopsis of each parameter would be nice.

Travathian · May 26, 1999, 19:04

They did include all of the scripting/scenario language for CivII but only in expansion pack Fantastic Worlds.

Is this something everyone thinks should be included in a seperate manual? Wait until a CivIII expansion?

I'm inclined to say have it wait until an expansion, simply because most people wont use those tools or build their own scenarios, and thats space which could be used for other things.

DanS · May 26, 1999, 21:23

Travathian: I would like a 350 page manual, so that's not a problem I see... Plenty of room.

[This message has been edited by DanS (edited May 26, 1999).]

Travathian · May 27, 1999, 17:22

350 pages? Is the game gonna be on a mini disc or in a seperate package?

yin26 · June 3, 1999, 19:41

-=*MOVING THE THREAD UP*=-

Ecce Homo · June 7, 1999, 10:01

One should be able to learn the game from scratch with an on-line tutorial in two parts. Part 1 should be for understanding the interface, part 2 should be just like playing on Chief level but with even more advice.

NotLikeTea · June 7, 1999, 10:36

As to a tutorial, I'd like to see one that is integrated into the game.

This was attempted with the tutorial help messages, but I don't think this was done too well.. I'd like to see an ingame tutorial, with it's own scenario, designed for the tutorial. Click here, change this, modify that, not the more generic tutorial messages used now.

Sieve Too · June 8, 1999, 10:00

Taking a cue from Microsoft (Oh no!!!!), how about "Question mark help"? You know, the little question mark button on the toolbar that changes your cursor to a pointer/question mark. Whatever you click on with this cursor pops up specific help for the item. Very useful for busy screens like the city window.

yin26 · June 14, 1999, 03:43

-=*MOVING THREAD UP*=-

Ecce Homo · June 15, 1999, 15:04

Could the Civilopedia be compatible with MS Windows' help program?

NotLikeTea · June 15, 1999, 16:52

Bah! I hope not.. I have a fervent dislike of MS help for this kind of thing.. the only thing worse is HTML help.

Note: If the game comes with HTML help, I'm going to return it.

On fire.

yin26 · June 16, 1999, 05:27

-=*MOVING THREAD UP*=-

Kris Huysmans · June 16, 1999, 05:44

Scenario creation must be also included in the manual:
1)A description of rules.txt
2)How to change graphics
3)Tips to make balanced scenarios without errors