2 on 2 - Page 2

strategicking · May 16, 2001, 02:20

Ill take that challenge with Zylka as my partner.
Of course you realize, that I'll save every turn and disect what your strategy is. so it will only be a one time thing cause quite frankly, anything you do, I can anaylize and duplicate and quite possibly improve on this so called unbeatable strategy.
And if anyone is going to be able to beat you, it will be of course the 8 time game league champion. (for all you people that have no life and post here and have not had the honor of being crushed by me, that would be me)

drake · May 16, 2001, 09:02

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</font>for all you people that have no life and post here and have not had the honor of being crushed by me, that would be me
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(Oh geez, looks like we got someone whos head is as almost as big as eyes!)

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</font>anything you do, I can anaylize and duplicate and quite possibly improve on this so called unbeatable strategy.
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So can anyone else, copying someone else is simple. Don't you and everyone else know that copying someone is the most sincere form of flattery? It's no wonder eyes brags so much.....so many people use that strategy of his.........

As I've asked in other forums, why can't people just come up with their own strategy? Are we so simple that we can't define our own style of play?

Also, Is winning so important that someone would waste their valuable time analyzing individual saves?

May 16, 2001, 09:53

I propose a "Mouth Off" competition.
Contestants seem to be gathering in force now.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

May 16, 2001, 10:07

Actually whom is to say it is Seans or Markus's strategy

there are many players whom have MP for about three years now too.....

I use many different strategies some of which mimmick "ics" "early republic" "fast growth" etc etc.... no strategy is infallible (spelling?)

However I think its great to watch civers try new strategies as they become popular...... can you say lemmings......

That all said i have learned greatly from playing many of the best and now i have my bag of strategies which keeps me hanging in there in most games and to be honest thats good enough for me.

As for bragging, thats part of the game and as for Sean, when he shares his tips , hints and winning strategies i am thankfull of that.

One thing about cheaters..... while it may make you leary of playing them because technically their rules are different than yours....... as long as everyone knows whats acceptable at the beginning anything goes after that.

While i hear many complain about civers whom only build settlers stating that the game is not real that way... ie ics no infastructure..... get real. Pumping settlers has nothing to do with ics. Play this game long enough and you'll realize that not all land is good for building and thus overlap is necessary.

I dont' ics but i produce alot of settlers and i get sick of hearing from perfectionist that this is ics or borring.

I guarrantee you that in a MP game if you have 8 perfect cities to my 25 nicely placed with a bit of overlap i will crush you..... and it isn't ics.....

anyways .....rambling and i am grumpy....

Kudos to Sean and Markus for divising new strategies for the rest of us to implement in the coming weeks

markusf · May 16, 2001, 11:30

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<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by EthnicCleanser on 05-16-2001 10:07 AM</font>
Actually whom is to say it is Seans or Markus's strategy

there are many players whom have MP for about three years now too.....

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trust me its my strat, its even on civfanatics where i wrote it up months ago, even had a big thread on this forum oh soo long ago.. Diety recently saw a demonstration of it. +50 trade routes per city on 1x 1x in some cities with +35ish on average. On 2x its about +80 routes. Now in 1x that means without to much effort you can get 2 techs a turn and maxing out around 3 techs a turn. In 2x you can get 3 techs a turn without to much effort, in addition to about 4000 gold a turn on average. I suppose the easiest way to win would be to max out gold production at about 5,000 gold a turn at 1300 bc. With a teammate you can get 7,000 gold a turn each at that time. Save up 30,000 gold each, go to dem and buy up everything in a turn or 2.

May 16, 2001, 14:36

Yep, the way we get the techs and stuff is Markus's strategy. We then combined that with my expansion to create the perfect game. A game where we can expand at mach speeds while at the same time make enormous cities with mega trade routes.

markusf · May 16, 2001, 16:23

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</font><font size=1>Originally posted by EyesOfNight on 05-16-2001 02:36 PM</font>
Yep, the way we get the techs and stuff is Markus's strategy. We then combined that with my expansion to create the perfect game. A game where we can expand at mach speeds while at the same time make enormous cities with mega trade routes.
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Well not really, you still expand at the same speed as normal. 20 cities by 2000 bc on average is the goal. The problem is i always get bored of clicking though so many build screens waiting for my turn, i get frustrated and just stop building more cities. How fast you can get to be a huge empire, depends solely on the map. As you need to balance trade/science/expansion/improvements very closely. This is strictly 2x. 1x is a whole nother ball game that i have down very pat. Last 7 player i was in. 8 wonders by 1ad and 25 cities diety raging hordes, all other players combined had 4 wonders... diety carnide zylka agartha hydy and some others where in it.

May 16, 2001, 17:28

I'm not impressed markus. You named off maybe one player that has any skill and he's average at best. 2x is far harder than 1x. As for the map, premade maps take care of that aspect. And what do you mean so many build screens? Have you ever heard of autobuild? It takes me about 20 sec to go through all my cities. THe only time it starts to get annoying is when I get 100+ cities.

GNGSpam · May 16, 2001, 17:43

2x is much harder then 1x? Thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

2x is DIFFRENT then 1x. They are virtually entirely diffrent types of games with diffrent styles of play.

Get your head out of your own arse

May 16, 2001, 18:00

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</font><font size=1>Originally posted by EyesOfNight on 05-16-2001 05:28 PM</font>
I'm not impressed markus. You named off maybe one player that has any skill and he's average at best. 2x is far harder than 1x. As for the map, premade maps take care of that aspect. And what do you mean so many build screens? Have you ever heard of autobuild? It takes me about 20 sec to go through all my cities. THe only time it starts to get annoying is when I get 100+ cities.
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Pass the info about moving on to Strat, will you?
Point and click, go to city.
Definitely needs help.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

markusf · May 16, 2001, 18:14

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<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by EyesOfNight on 05-16-2001 05:28 PM</font>
2x is far harder than 1x. As for the map, premade maps take care of that aspect. And what do you mean so many build screens? Have you ever heard of autobuild? It takes me about 20 sec to go through all my cities. THe only time it starts to get annoying is when I get 100+ cities.
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1x is way harder when you have more then 3 players in a game(you can't dispute this). in 2x if you have a good start you can REALLY pull ahead, and your terrain doesn't matter was much for building etc. huts aren't going to totally screw your tech path. And if you find another play really early you can hurt them fast. 1x keeps everyone pretty much on even ground until the first 7 or 8 cities are built and everyone has monarchy.

autobuild is next to useless, even with the customized autobuild file. What i am talking about is rush buying improvements in 20 cities every couple of turns. just flipping through the screens at the start of every turn and picking what to build next is time consuming (the whole point is to optimize cash or science) Add onto that moving around 20 settlars to build roads irrigate, and then if you have a army, ships etc. It gets very time consuming and the game grinds to a halt. Tribe games are a good example, we play for 4 hours and don't get past 2800 bc. It becomes very fustrating.

markusf · May 16, 2001, 18:14

slowhand i do all city management from the F1 and F4 screens

GNGSpam · May 16, 2001, 18:29

Nethier is more tough because you are playing another person with the same advantages/disadvantages.

Logically speaking, both are incredibly diffrent, but from a competition perspective, the same.

May 16, 2001, 18:34

Tribe games do not have to take excessive time.
They're no different than any other game.
You can run across a pokey ass player either way, and that's what does it.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

May 16, 2001, 20:12

Markus you can never prove one is harder than the other. The fact is I have beaten you on both settings and I find 2x2x harder to master than 1x1x. You said it yourself, you have to do everything at once. On 1x1x you have time to build and get situated. And I go through and rush buy improvements too markus, the difference is I can focus on the first 20 cities and let the other 70 go to **** until I get finished. You on the other hand must have everything perfect, a weakness as I see it.

May 17, 2001, 00:44

Hopefully III will adjust some of the weak points and bugs.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

GNGSpam · May 17, 2001, 00:56

Wow that sounds like a whole lotta fun

May 17, 2001, 01:12

You're in a class of 1 if you can say that 2x is more difficult than 1x.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

drake · May 17, 2001, 10:52

This thread has gotten amusing..............

WHO CARES which is harder?

To each their own, it's not worth debating..........

May 17, 2001, 11:05

The only reason I do is to irritate Eyes.
He lives to write monumental amounts of rhetoric, and being a friend I try to help.

------------------
"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

Deity Dude · May 17, 2001, 15:47

Eyes: I'm shocked you are even in this forum. The last time I asked you to play on "the zone" you gave me some bull**** that you didn't play newbies. When I said I was reasonably experienced you said only beginners play deity and that I would fit in good with "the *******s at Apolyton" When I said I came here quite often and thought that many players here were good players - you told me "you played everyone over here and set them all straight and that I should ask them". (I even considered a posting a thread on the subject)
Now let me understand your challenge - you make a map, you pick a partner, you pick the level (although last time we spoke you scolded me for using the word level to describe deity vs king), you pick the production level, you pick the movement level, you come up with the game rules, hmmm.... I HOPE YOU WOULD WIN.
I repeat the challenge I made to you before: (which instead of accepting you called me and other players names and avoided the game) ANY SIZE RANDOM MAP (notice my flexibility), deity level, 2x1x or 1x1x (again flexible), we can agree on games rules (flexible again). I'm ready anytime you are. By the way - I'm willing to bet $50 I beat you. Now I'm sure you will have some brilliant reason not to accept this like:
a) It's a waste of your time
b) I'm not good enough to be honored to play against you
c) only lousy players play deity
or
d) perhaps just a bunch of rude remarks and obscenities that in no way address the question.

I anxiously await your response.

drake · May 17, 2001, 16:17

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</font>Eyes: I'm shocked you are even in this forum. The last time I asked you to play on "the zone" you gave me some bull**** that you didn't play newbies. When I said I was reasonably experienced you said only beginners play deity and that I would fit in good with "the *******s at Apolyton" When I said I came here quite often and thought that many players here were good players - you told me "you played everyone over here and set them all straight and that I should ask them".
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Eyes hates apolyton and yet he still comes here.......well don't let him fool you, he loves the attention that he gets when he comes here! He loves being the bad guy and watch everyone get mad and frustrated with him. It's how the poor kid gets his jollies!

He insults civfanatics too, but hes still around over there too.
He just loves the attention, he can't get enough.

Can ya eyes?

rah · May 17, 2001, 17:09

As much as I hate to say it, I'd put my money on Eyes. Sorry DD.

He may be an ass, but he's a very very good ass.

But I still don't agree with him on his blanket assesment of the players here.

RAH

May 17, 2001, 19:45

I'm sorry, I had no idea your native language was Mandarin. WOuld you understand better if I spoke in chinese or is there another obscure language you speak? Obviously English is not your native language or you would have noticed that I said ALL settings can be played except deity. The use of a premade map comes from my experience over the past 2 years in team games. Meeting each other early on is a huge advantage and if your partner is on an island the game is basically lost. Deity is nothing more than an equalizer for lesser players. The incredible amount of restrictions it puts on everything bogs the game down to a ridiculously slow pace. The amount of factors that influence your ability to pull ahead of others is diminished drastically. King level opens up the game more for different strategies. You don't absolutely have to go monarchy or go republic to win. You don't need happy wonders if you don't want them. As for you Rah, I would love it if you proved my assesment wrong. However, sadly it would seem that I am right and I will always be right.

Deity Dude · May 18, 2001, 13:03

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</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ming on 05-18-2001 12:18 PM</font>
why don't you just come out and say that Deity doesn't fit your predetermined strategy of success. Deity forces you to build a civ instead of just cranking out settlers and horses until you are blue in the face.

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Ming, you summed it up perfectly.

May 18, 2001, 13:48

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</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ming on 05-18-2001 12:18 PM</font>
ROTFLMAO... why don't you just come out and say that Deity doesn't fit your predetermined strategy of success. (Oh, and I'm not disputing that you are probably the best civ player around when I say that...) You claim it gives you more options of strategies, but what it really does is allow you to ICS... something that is more difficult at Deity. And I have no problem with that, but don't even attempt to call it an equalizer for lesser players as if those that play at deity are all inferior

Deity forces you to build a civ instead of just cranking out settlers and horses until you are blue in the face.
Now that's boring

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Eyes is far from the best, unless you're talking best at 2x small world, kamikaze style of play. He may not even be the best at that.
He hasn't the patience or skill to play an extended game.
If you can thwart is initial attempt to overrun you with early discovery, he's on the ropes.
You have it correct in that he spews out horses and settlers, and does so with little regard for any other aspect of the game.
The only major item other than knowledge of bugs in the game, is his ability to intimidate many new players. Highlight new.
I never play him without the expectation that he'll either do something underhanded, or leave quickly.
That's the way he is.
You just have to realize that's how he is, and move on.

rah · May 18, 2001, 13:55

DD, just because he doesn't respond, doesn't diminish his skills.
I am not knocking your skills btw, Just appreciating his.

Yes setting make a big difference. I can think of a few games we played with Markus on tiny worlds where he got pinned in early and was not able to do his master strat as well as he'd like. He finished poorly in that game, gee what a surprise. I still think he's one of the top players. He has proved it in many games that we've been in together. You have to limit his space or find him early and harass him to have any hope of staying with/or beating him.

And yes I like to play settings that benefit my style of play. Who doesn't.
I don't play as well in less than deity games, mainly because i forget I'm playing at a lower level and still build temples, etc. So I'm not going to give anyone too much crap for chosing prefered settings. I don't have to respect a person to respect their playing abilities. And eyes is quite good. (bragging not withstanding)

RAH

Ming · May 18, 2001, 14:03

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<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by SlowwHand on 05-18-2001 01:48 PM</font>
Eyes is far from the best, unless you're talking best at 2x small world, kamikaze style of play. He may not even be the best at that.

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I will have to disagree with you on that... While I stand by my earlier comments, he is by far one of the top players (I'll let him and the others fight it out to claim who is really number one) He is excellent at many different types of settings... size world... single/double movement/production... and difficulty levels. He can play teams, duels, normal games... His knowledge of the game goes far beyond what many of us know. And the big thing is, he knows how to use that knowledge. I for one know tons about the game... but I'm nowhere near his league in MP.

However... I will say that he probably has the biggest ego, and that he can also be a "tad" condescending... But, that's his act

Deity Dude · May 18, 2001, 14:45

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<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by rah on 05-18-2001 01:55 PM</font>
DD, just because he doesn't respond, doesn't diminish his skills.
I am not knocking your skills btw, Just appreciating his.

RAH
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Ahh, but he does respond - he just doesn't accept the challenge.

This will be my last post on this subject because it really isn't my style to get in an argument about who's better or any of that (especially when we have never played). My only point is this I read his crap all the time in here and other places. I've offered to play him on numerous occasions. He refuses - "no time, deity sucks, I'm beneath him, etc.etc.etc" He claims to be the best (something I have never claimed). So let's play. Like all endeavors in life, you prove your worth by performance not insults. He may beat me - he may not. There's only one way to find out. I offered a little wager, so it would be worth his time. (One of his favorite excuses seems to be it isn't worth his time). I'm available weeknights and weekends. I'm always in the Zone and I read this and civfanatics forum daily. So there it is. I've offered, he knows where to find me. The balls in his court. Why not just beat me.

rah · May 18, 2001, 16:19

Good for you DD.
I am also one that doesn't get into the who's the best arguement.
You have done all you can. I am surprised that he didn't jump on your money challange. I have always thought he was more than all mouth.

I guess i was more like just having some fun when I said I'd place my money on him. (I still would) but sometimes handicappers are wrong

.

RAH