Preview: Day 6 & 7

November 13, 2000, 20:25

screens posted, texts coming up
http://apolyton.net/ctp2/screenshots/screens4.shtml
http://apolyton.net/ctp2/screenshots/screens5.shtml

November 13, 2000, 21:03

Day Seven
Editor Documentation, Editor Experiences, Map Sizes/World Map, Diplomacy: The Friendly Side, Diplomacy: The Ugly Side, Diplomacy: Treaties Read

Day Six
The Impossible Medium Game, Reply to Ralf, Reply to Slingshot Read

Dauphin · November 13, 2000, 21:27

Mark

You really are dedicated, staying up until past 3am just to give us these previews... whereas I only have to stay up 'til 1am to read them.

Lancer · November 13, 2000, 21:39

Well I just can't wait...but I guess I have to do just that. The diplomacy aspect...alliances being the culmination of friendly treaties built over time. It seems we've been waiting ages for this. Any sign of allied civs growing nasty over time as in Civ 2? Although the way our friendly neighborhood Brits treat the good ol' USA here at Apolyton I'm begining to wonder if Civ didn't model it right after all.

That said, I've actually been dumped by more allies now than girl friends...and that's getting WAY out of line!

Mark, does adding additional civs seem to impact the new diplomacy aspects? If each AI civ has to maintain info on every other civ, does this go kaput when civs are added beyond the limit?

Also, do units gaurding borders (out of cities) create unhappy citizens? I don't recall how it was in CTP 1, but it always seemed to me that there are more problems raised by having the military in cities than otherwise...at least in governments other than monarchy, or perhaps communism....Prague Spring comes to mind. That made the citizens umm, 'happy'.

Slingshot · November 13, 2000, 22:08

Thank you for your hard work, Mark.

So are you now practially an Activision employee? I see that their CTP2 website gives you a lot of ink.

- Certainly you must find yourself formatting the same diplomatic options. I could see myself playing the stoic researcher who wants to be left alone. How many options would such a player have? Have you noticed actions from the AI's that are consistent with their long character descriptions (e.g. thoughtful warmonger blah blah blah?)

- Is it true that Activision lets its employees wear jeans on Fridays?

- Nice to hear that they've changed the actions of the settler unit. But what about movement? Some people said that CTP1 gave them a sore mouse-hand. The best part about CivII was the ability to use the keyboard without remapping everything. Is CTP2 build primarily for the mouse or the keyboard?

- Certainly you must have your favourite wonders picked out already. In Civ II I always went for the pyramids. There must also be some wonders that seem useless by now.

- So have you met the Actigrammer who put together the music yet? It would be great to know if such a creative soul also has a website full of other music tracks.

- How many music tracks do you have in total?

- Sounds like the gov't thing is a little different than CTP1. That's good!

- What is your favourite strategy so far? Does this have anything to do with the fact you haven't seen to many stealth units? Exactly what did you mean when you posted the graphic with a caption saying "finally, diplomatic efforts pay off!"?

- Say 'Hi' to Mr. Ogre for me next time you walk past his office. Tell him to say 'Hi' to his cat, the Goblin.

Nemo · November 13, 2000, 23:34

there is very little critical feedback. what is wrong with the game? or are there any changes that YOU personally dont like since CTP I? i find it hard to believe that it is all as good as is said. even when Civ II came out, there were negative issues that it created (i.e. no end world preview, or the throne room vs castle screen) so, what is wrong and/or personal dislikes since CTP I (even compared to civ2 or smac).

------------------
"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."
-Michael Sinz

Pyaray · November 14, 2000, 00:20

quote:

Originally posted by Slingshot on 11-13-2000 09:08 PM
- Is it true that Activision lets its employees wear jeans on Fridays?

"Lets"? Hmm.... I'm not sure I've ever been to Activision NOT wearing jeans, and that includes the interview.

quote:

- Say 'Hi' to Mr. Ogre for me next time you walk past his office. Tell him to say 'Hi' to his cat, the Goblin.

It's "cats", plural. He has two.

Pyaray

Eternal · November 14, 2000, 01:46

Nemo, it seems to me that it would be ungrateful to give a bad review before the game is out -this is a preview, that Activision let MarkG try out of the goodness of their hearts, and to whet our appetites. If there are a lot of flaws that he blasts them for, sales on the first week could be kinda bad and we may not get these previews when other games are on the way.

Nemo · November 14, 2000, 02:51

eternal: a preview would give a balanced and unbiased view of a product. what you are suggesting is that mark is not giving a preview, but propoganda. who wants propoganda??? propoganda is evil - look at history. i want a fare judgement, which includes BAD AND GOOD, not just one or the other.
if mark gives an unrealistic review, then less people would care to hear what Mark has to say, thus leaving the site. in turn activision would still not give out a preview in teh future, since no one would be listening to mark. if, however, mark gives an accurate view, then the people will return to this site. and as long as people will come to this site, the gaming co. will still support the site too, because that is where their clientel is.

November 14, 2000, 03:37

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo on 11-13-2000 10:34 PM
there is very little critical feedback. what is wrong with the game? or are there any changes that YOU personally dont like since CTP I? i find it hard to believe that it is all as good as is said.

i'm sorry if you find as many bad stuff as you would like/expect to see. wait for the complete preview, which will be done before the release of the game

btw, so far you have read 3.5 "weekend" previews on apolyton

and they are not even the half of an "apolyton" preview....

November 14, 2000, 03:43

quote:

Originally posted by Eternal on 11-14-2000 12:46 AM
it seems to me that it would be ungrateful to give a bad review before the game is out

i'm not doing anyone any favors here eternal. i have a 3-days-before-gold version of the game and i consider it to be the same thing as the released.

November 14, 2000, 04:07

perhaps, nemo, you have a problem with my writing style. let me give an example:
i wrote yesterday

quote:

There is currently no readme for the map/editor. It seems that there wont be anything "in the box" as well.

if you expect me to make an analysis why this is bad, i dont have the time. i have to move on to cover more things. the game is huge and i dont have one whole month as i had with ctp1. i'm writing what i see, make your own conclusions

Tiberius · November 14, 2000, 05:23

Markos, still no Great Library link when you have to chose a new Advance to research? Or is it possible through the Goal button?

November 14, 2000, 07:16

quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius on 11-14-2000 04:23 AM
Markos, still no Great Library link when you have to chose a new Advance to research? Or is it possible through the Goal button?

see this http://apolyton.net/ctp2/images/view...y6-science.jpg

Tiberius · November 14, 2000, 08:50

Markos, I saw it, that's why I asked. Maybe I'm dumb, but I still don't get it.
The Science manager looks good, but in the very moment when your scientists make a discovery and ask you what should be the next project (the screen in the upper-right corner of the screenshot) is there any possibility to consult the Great Library? Is there a possibility to find out what nationalism is, but not earlier or later, but in that very moment, when I have to chose! Or does the Science manager pop up in such a moment? If yes, then my question is pointless and dumb

I saw that there is a button, called "Change research". Does it mean that you can change the research objective even between discoveries (We have dicovered 50% of nationalism, but from now I want to focus on chemistry)? Is that right? Do you receive penalties for doing so?

November 14, 2000, 09:42

quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius on 11-14-2000 07:50 AM
ask you what should be the next project (the screen in the upper-right corner of the screenshot) is there any possibility to consult the Great Library?

the right part of the window show you what that advance gives. for example, on the screenshot you saw the selected nationalism advances gives the spy unit

if you click the goal button the GL opens up and you can find nationalism in there to see more info about it
there is not a direct link to the nationalism entry on the gl though

quote:

I saw that there is a button, called "Change research". Does it mean that you can change the research objective even between discoveries (We have dicovered 50% of nationalism, but from now I want to focus on chemistry)? Is that right? Do you receive penalties for doing so?

yes, you can change what you research at any time(this existed in ctp1 as well). there is no penalty for doing it

rockville · November 14, 2000, 14:34

I know that Mark alluded to this, but don't those map sizes seem REALLY small? I'm in favor of quick games on small world maps, but 24x48 sounds a little bit too claustrophobic for me.

Even the gigantic one doesn't sound so big... anyone know, offhand, the sizes for Civ 2 or SMAC?

Pintello · November 14, 2000, 16:12

Hi Rockville,

Civ2's maximum custome huge map was 80X125 for a total of 10,000 squares. 70X140 gives you 9,800 squares, so they are pretty close. Personally, I modified CTP to 90X180 for a total of 16,200 squares. This works very well for me, but it required a few other changes as well to get the map to look fine when randomly generated. I don't remember all the changes I made just now, but they weren't too hard and they were mostly all done in the map.txt file. I don't know if they are still using that file, but they will probably have a file that is analogous to it.

Regards,

Timothy Pintello

Pyaray · November 14, 2000, 20:16

quote:

Originally posted by Slingshot on 11-14-2000 12:27 PM
So Pyaray, you're telling me that Mr. Ogre has two cats that are named Goblin?

OK, you got me on that one. No, only one of his cats is named Goblin.

*sigh*

Pyaray

Mr Ogre · November 14, 2000, 20:59

For the record, my other cat is named Mozart.

The map sizes are the same as CTP1's (actually the tiny one is slightly bigger. The rest are unchanged.)

I almost always wear jeans to work, except when I wear shorts instead

. Activision as a whole is not quite as laid back as this development team in terms of attire, but there's no dress code. I rarely see a tie except on visitors.

St Swithin · November 14, 2000, 22:22

Actually, MrOgre usually cruises around with his hobbit-like toes blatantly exposed to the world. And her name isn't Goblin, it's Stinky! Stinky! You can't rename her!

Slingshot · November 15, 2000, 01:27

So Pyaray, you're telling me that Mr. Ogre has two cats that are named Goblin?

I guess it makes sense, since cats don't really answer a person by their names anyways.

We could have two cats, named Herbert and Al. Shake the food dish and they both come. What's their real name? Probably "rattle rattle cat food."

So really, the name is irrelevant and Mr. Ogre's genious shines through. The name Goblin is easy and just as effective a title as Herbert or Al.

If I were to put both Goblins in a cardboard box and shake the cat food dish, the cat-pair is simultaneously a single, hungry mammal and two individual cats with a preference for eating. Until such a time as the cats are allowed out of the box - they are locked in the duality of states. Brilliant!

Now the allegory is obvious.

MarkG is the cat dish. He's rattling away a savoury tune of Tender-Civ-Vittles to the pile of Apolytoners in a virtual box. Until such a time as CTP2 is released, Activision Marketers have locked the populace as a Civ-hungry mob that simultaneously exists as Civ-hungry individuals.

We are, as Mr. Ogre so heartily knew beforehand, an uneasy alliance of free-thinking states that must collobarate as a unified whole. We can no more readily think as individuals than as a group. We adopt the title of Goblin - an entity that freaks out when strings are shaken, shiny objects roll about, heat registers become warm and fish swim in fish bowls.

Man, you guys are deep

!

Slingshot · November 15, 2000, 03:44

You people seem like a lot of fun!

During big experiments my technologists listen to epic works of music. I think it makes them feel more motivated. I love Mozart, but Bach is even better. The Winamp is set to shuffle in our lab, so classical gets mixed in with some Metallica, Latin-instrumental stuff, and a dash of the Cult.

Certainly the CTP2 soundtrack will be booming throughout the facility in the near future - if I have my way.

But what do you all listen to while working? Is your office a big, communal labyrinth or do you have separate offices?

Do Mr. Ogre's hobbit-like toes ever kick St. Swithin's computer terminal? If they're as caloused as hobit feet, I imagine it would cause quite a bit of damage!

If Mark G were to work for you guys, what kind of office would he get. Would he feed the cats, or do the cats stay home?

How far is Venice from Santa Monica, anyways?
[This message has been edited by Slingshot (edited November 15, 2000).]

meriadoc · November 15, 2000, 14:31

I resent that remark. I go to a lot of trouble to keep the callouses from getting to bad on my feet.

------------------
The Electronic Hobbit

St Swithin · November 15, 2000, 19:49

Activision is most definitely a cube farm, but some of the team has offices. I've been demanding an office kitty, but to no avail

Mark G could be our Chief Executive Greek - cat poo-scooping experience a plus!

MrOgre may NOT come near my computer with exposed Hobbit toes.

We have a bunch of Nerf guns which we use to disrupt other team members' work

Mr Ogre · November 15, 2000, 20:51

To be specific, I have a Nerf Wildfire, most everyone else has a crappy one ;-). The Nerf Wildfire is the state of the art in rapid fire Nerf technology, don't leave your cube without one!

Tool is my favorite band. When I'm not listening to Tool, I listen to the CTP2 soundtrack on an endless loop. It's just that good!!!

Venice borders on Santa Monica. I live about 2 miles from work. "Venice" doesn't actually exist as its own entity though, it's part of Los Angeles (unlike Santa Monica, which is a city). But it was a separate city until the 20's or 30's, and the post office still knows what you mean if you write "Venice" on a letter.

Pyaray · November 15, 2000, 21:03

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Ogre on 11-15-2000 07:51 PM
To be specific, I have a Nerf Wildfire, most everyone else has a crappy one ;-). The Nerf Wildfire is the state of the art in rapid fire Nerf technology, don't leave your cube without one!

HEY! Dan and I both have Wildfire's too. Mine just hasn't wandered it's way to work yet.

But Dan is armed, and I can grab his in a pinch.

(So much for being on topic.)

Pyaray

Stratesford · November 16, 2000, 00:03

All right Mr. Ogre dude! Tool is also one of my favorite bands! The soundtrack is ok... but even though I bought the game today, I'm still pist about the legion thing.

Stratesford · November 16, 2000, 00:08

oh, and I also used to live invenice when iwas a little kid, when I came for the first time to this country