Empire State IS a Legitimate Wonder

[raingoon]

Why the Empire State Building IS a Wonder
(re-posted from another thread; in light of some of the comments, I think this bears repeating)

This has nothing to do with being American-centric. Not only is the Empire State Building a legitimate "Wonder," but most of the world considered it a Wonder for most of the 20th century. And it remains so today, not because of its size, but because of the engineering feat it represents -- a feat that has not been topped before or since.

Erecting the building -- from first demolition of the Waldorf Hotel to topping it off 102 floors and 1,252 feet up in the air -- took only 11 months. Nobody in Europe or anywhere else has ever come close to that. Further more, the tallest building in the world for most of the 20th century (some 40 years) stands perfectly plumb to within 5/8ths of an inch. This was accomplished not with the aid of computers, but with paper and pencil by a guy standing on another building across 34th Street.

Beams were rolled off the mill in Pennsylvania, trained over to New Jersey, then ferried to the 33rd St. dock where they were taken individually by truck -- many of them STILL WARM -- to the sight for immediate hoisting, connecting and rivetting. Contractors Starret Bros. & Eken were so exacting in their time scheduling that if one truck were more than 10 minutes late, the driver was pulled from the line and told to come back the next day. Enough phone cables were installed in the Empire State to wire most of rural Europe at the time. Further, BECAUSE of this grueling pace, architects Shreve, Harmon & Lamb worked with the contractors to innovate building methods that revolutionized the engineering and construction industries. Their use of natural light in its design has likewise been copied around the world. To ensure enough Belgium marble would be ready when it was needed, an entire German quarry was purchased by the contractors, the marble extracted, cut, finished and shipped all in under a year. Enough electrical wire was laid in the building to wrap around the earth several times. I could go on and on.

But the point is, ALL THIS was done. And to this day the Empire State Building holds all speed records for construction, before or since. All of the technological advances that have followed have yet to produce a feat of greater magnitude in terms of speed and innovation, or its impact on construction around the world.

Upon its completion it was widely hailed as the 8th Wonder.

[Dida]

We are here to discuss the game not the Empire State Building itself. My point is, this building while admirable has nothing to do with international relationship and yet building it in CTP2 game will give you diplomacy bonus which is abusolutly rediculous.

I agree with raingoon. Also, the ESB is known to attract giant apes. That should count for something.

[raingoon]

quote: We are here to discuss the game not the Empire State Building itself. My point is, this building while admirable has nothing to do with international relationship and yet building it in CTP2 game will give you diplomacy bonus which is abusolutly rediculous.

Yeah, I disagree. First of all, this IS about the game. Diplomacy is about political science and you have to remember the greatest economic depression civilization has ever seen commenced within days of the ground breaking of this building. With the world's morale and its financial state at an all time low, the builders went ahead at what would eventually amount to a loss of millions to them. But it was America's political gain -- exactly as CTP2 suggests -- that the greatest building inspiration of the 20th century was NOT in the Soviet Union, Paris or Tokyo, etc.

[SeveB]

I agree that it can be considered a Wonder. We already know its not the most powerful wonder (I might have a problem if it gave you a peace treaty with every nation or something), but as an engineering feat it is a great example. I'm British, and I would still think of the Empire State as a superb acheivement - and one that makes me think more of the U.S. as a result; I would expect that this would be even more true of when it was first built.

[Dogbreath]

Would the Statue of Liberty been a better choice?

[Dida]

No no, Statue of Liberty is only a boring woman, how can that be a wonder. I think the US Contitution might be even better choice even though the recent election tells us that the govt. system set up under this guide line is still far from perfect.

raingoon, I hate to interrupt you in your crusade for the empire state building but you're completely missing the point. To begin with the question still remains what it has to do with corporation. It's an architecture and construction feat, not a business one.
And as I explained in the previous thread (why did you start a new one? it confuses everyone) corporationism was not an American invention and it wasn't invented in the 19th or 20th century, which makes the connection with the empire state building even more disputable.
[This message has been edited by Linzen (edited November 16, 2000).]

[raingoon]

Hey, I'm not on a crusade -- just a mission from God. And as far as I know Florida state law says I can start any thread I want, baby -- so your confusion is your own. But if you can give me a European or Asian country whose impact on world finance exploded or rocked harder than America's in the 20th century, I'm all yours. Sometimes a thing can be wrong in the think of it, but exactly right in the feel of it and if you're one who doesn't feel it, hey, you don't feel it. That's completely -- as the other kids say -- cool.

[red_jon]

The Empire State Building was made 'obsolete' by the World Trade Towers.

That means it shouldn't last very long in game terms.

God, you Yanks'll be saying the White House is in the game next .

------------------
...And if the British Commonwealth and its people live for a thousand years, man will still say "this was their finest hour"- Winston Churchill.

[Slax]

quote: Originally posted by red_jon on 11-16-2000 05:31 PM God, you Yanks'll be saying the White House is in the game next .

This comes after the "Contraception" wonder.

[raingoon]

Wait -- you mean the White House isn't in the game? Nah, you're joking. Right? You're not joking? Wait. I'm confused, he said the White House wasn't in the game, but what kind of game wouldn't have the White House in the...

[Chris Horscroft]

If you want to include a truely memorable event involving the US President's home, how about having "Burning of the White House" as a Feat of Wonder?

Viva Canada!

[Dogbreath]

The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France to celebrate the USa's independence from England and to highlight Liberty and freedom for all. I can see this as increasing diplomatic ties with others.

If CTP2 wants to focus on some feat that should raise a nations reputation in the eyes of others, how about the landing on the moon or resiliance of the UK in the Battle of Britain (WWII) or even Ghandi's Demonstrations? Along this line, the ESB could work, as could the Eiffel Tower (which already held the diplomatic wonder status in Civ-2)

Other ideas?