First Impressions, from those who have the game

Dogbreath · November 16, 2000, 09:50

1) My first impresssion was that the opening graphics seemed a little weak. I changed screen settings and this cleared up a bit. :-)

2) Game defaults to medium difficulty, and since I jumped in without reading about the screen controls, it was a little difficult, both to get around and to compete.

3) After a change to easy setting and scaning the manual and tech chart, I moved into first without difficulty (i.e. cannons vs archers)

4) Game interface is quite changed and without reading about it, game can be confusing/frustrating. This is overcome with experience.

5) I had difficulty stopping the game when it auto skipped to the next turn.

6) Trade system is great!

7) Love the increasing city influence!

8) I have tommorow off from work and know where I will be!!!!!

November 16, 2000, 09:56

quote:

Originally posted by Dogbreath on 11-16-2000 08:50 AM
4) Game interface is quite changed and without reading about it, game can be confusing/frustrating. This is overcome with experience.

try using the right-click of the mouse

Stratesford · November 16, 2000, 10:01

What the hell r u talking about? the interface is hell of easy!

Dogbreath · November 16, 2000, 10:54

As I said, the interface can be confusing without reading the manual, but is overcome with experience. Thanks to Mark G about the right click.

I've heard of the hell of dripping waters, but what is the hell of easy?!? :-)

Monkey · November 16, 2000, 11:25

quote:

Originally posted by Dogbreath on 11-16-2000 09:54 AM

I've heard of the hell of dripping waters, but what is the hell of easy?!? :-)

Do you watch SouthPark??

Dogbreath · November 16, 2000, 11:33

Sorry, I gave up TV when the Sid's original Civ came out. :-)

Dida · November 16, 2000, 12:48

quote:

Originally posted by Dogbreath on 11-16-2000 10:33 AM
Sorry, I gave up TV when the Sid's original Civ came out. :-)

Really?

Camper · November 16, 2000, 15:58

1) I only got about and hour and a half with it, and it took me that long to figure out the interface. Not that I don't like it, just that it's different. I'm withholding judgement until I get more practice.

2) I think the diplomacy and the trade systems are definate improvements.

After work I'll see if I can find some time in my busy schedule to muck around for a few more hours.

vlad · November 16, 2000, 21:24

Well the first and very important beef about the game is no ability to see my systray or use ICQ, that sucks!! One of the main reasons I enjoy Civ2 so much is I can play online and still interact with other people. Anyone know a way to make that happen in CTP2? Bad enough it will take away my real world social life, but my internet social life can't suffer too

dainbramaged13 · November 16, 2000, 22:22

oh, quiet! you know the game takes up a ton of ram. name one other modern game with good graphics and complicated ai that lets you use icq

vlad · November 17, 2000, 00:17

Well the main comparison will be to civ2 which allows ICQ and many new games understand that its an important multiplayer function in case of disconnect. I really don't think Ram has anything to do with it, most computer gamers these days have 256mb or more anyway. I think its a feature that will affect a large market of online civ players. That feature alone has made me regret spending $50 for the game and contemplating a return.

November 17, 2000, 00:50

quote:

Originally posted by dainbramaged13 on 11-16-2000 09:22 PM
name one other modern game with good graphics and complicated ai that lets you use icq

Civ 2!!!!!!!!!!

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

meabbott · November 17, 2000, 01:09

Here are my opinions on CTP II after having bought it this morning and playing it for several hours. I tend to be an opinionated person so please tread lightly below. I also realize that some of the things that I am upset about below may have solutions I am aware of and I will be delighted to retract my complaints if they are pointed out to me (and I haven’t seen anything in the manual thus far).

If a unit with orders to go to a particular location encounters another player’s unit, it stops and the location orders are eliminated. I can understand the stop, but removing the orders is unacceptable. I should be able to tell it to continue with the move button instead of having to continually redo the order. This happened in CTP I and I expected it to be corrected.

There is no obvious way to tell if there are any units that haven’t been given orders. If, for example, you do something on a city, there is no easy way to get back into the unit orders mode. Same thing with cities. I appreciate that the city names turn yellow, but if I have a large civilization, why isn’t there a list like CTP I? Same goes for units.

On a related note, there is no easy way to tell what units are in a particular square and what state (active, fortified, sentinel, etc). There was in CTP I, but no CTP II. This makes turn to turn handling of units more difficult than it used to be. I don’t see the purpose of that.

I could have understood if some of these problems were handled by the city manager and the unit manager. I don’t understand the purpose of the unit manager since all it seems to do is list the number of any given type of units you have. How does that help you manage units? You can do only one useful thing from there and that is disband obsolete units.

The city manager is much better, but there doesn’t seem to be any way to list the cities and see who is building what – you have to scroll through each one individually. You used to be able to do this in CTP I.

I further don’t understand why the minimize button is not on the screen. Is this not a Windows application?

Don’t get me wrong, I see improvements. The graphics look better and I like the battles have been improved visually and tactically. The advances are interesting. Most of all, I love the city and nation radius system. That is terrific. I am also pleased with the increase in the number of units to 12 and the concept of armies. Diplomacy is right where I feel it should have been. From what I have seen, this is an area where CTP II really shines.

It was, however, not worth the $50 I paid for it when Activision went backwards on the fundamentals – the routine turn to turn handling is a catastrophe and I don’t understand how this could not have been mentioned by anyone prior to release or why Activision would have allowed itself to do that. It is the turn to turn handling that makes a game like this. When a player can’t easily access required information, the game has failed. In my opinion, CTP II is a failure. Now if I am merely missing something fundamental and my ranting is pointless, please correct me. I would love to get on with playing this game rather than fighting it every turn. I am particularly angry because I love turn based games and CTP I in particular. I was looking forward to CTP II and am very disappointed.

Chronus · November 17, 2000, 01:30

Hmmmm ... meabbott now has me worried. The beauty of Civ2 was its simple, ONE SCREEN city display that showed the essentials. I know, I probably rant and rave about this too often so I'll try to contain myself. Any more news in this area from those who have the game?

I am, however, delighted to hear that the unit "Path Order" is cleared when encountering another civ's unit. Why? . . . . .

During one game in CTP1, I had a lone War Walker sittin' around doing nothing so I decided to send him off to some remote area I haven't looked at in awhile. Low and behold, another civ's diplomat appeared which stopped my Walker. Fine. I pressed the "End Turn" key for my Walker and did other tasks. The next turn, my Walker continued with his path order and OBLITERATED THE DIPLOMAT standing in its path!!!! War was declared and things got a little ugly for awhile. Talk about hysterical (to me anyway).

Gedrin · November 17, 2000, 01:31

Well apart from the obvious tech tree short comings and the fact that ICS is not yet dead I think the new game is really good.

I mean really from programmers I expect good code that can be customized by the user. A quick peak at the files and all I have to say is wow!!!! Is that ever better organized.

Tech trees should be left to history buffs... like, well, me

Not killing ICS is a dissapointment however I will say that it will be a lot harder. However, harder != dead no matter how convincingly you argue it. This too however can be killed with SLIC so again my first criterion is satisfied.

An excellent game. However there are not many feats of wonder (6 for getting an advance first and then 8 others). In fact there is only one that I might be hard pressed to impliment in SLIC anyway... sailing around the world. All the others are quite simple... I could impliment them in my sleep. Ergo I'm rather dissapointed about them.

Final word is however: I'm not returning it.

Oh and as for ICQ... well unless you want it and CTP visible at the same time why not just hit alt-esc or alt-tab and go to ICQ?

Gedrin

Gedrin · November 17, 2000, 01:35

Minimize buttons are superfluous.
alt-esc sends the current app to the background so why bother?

Gedrin

Dogbreath · November 17, 2000, 01:54

Really! I just use it for videos now! Amazing how long a TV can last (16+ years). Also amazing is how much time I have for games!!! :-)

vlad · November 17, 2000, 01:56

Well my main point on the ICQ thing is intended for multiplayer applications and yes I would like to see it and the CTP screen at the same time,again chat between turns on MP is normal with civ2 which is the world I am coming from. The game itself is pretty good, actually better in some ways than I thought, but after a few hours play I can see it doesn't have the addictive draw that civ2 or classic games like Panzer General had.I doubt I will return it, but if some Aussie or Euro Apolytoner wants to buy it from me I will send it

November 17, 2000, 03:08

quote:

Originally posted by meabbott on 11-17-2000 12:09 AM
There is no obvious way to tell if there are any units that haven’t been given orders.

click on the terrain to deselect and hit "n" or hit "u"(i think)

quote:

On a related note, there is no easy way to tell what units are in a particular square and what state (active, fortified, sentinel, etc).

at least for the first one, click on the little arrow next to the current unit's name on the unti tab of the control panel

quote:

I don’t understand the purpose of the unit manager since all it seems to do is list the number of any given type of units you have.

some day you might need it

for unit managment on a tile use the army manager(right-click)

quote:

The city manager is much better, but there doesn’t seem to be any way to list the cities and see who is building what – you have to scroll through each one individually.

empire manager(F2), status tab

quote:

I further don’t understand why the minimize button is not on the screen. Is this not a Windows application?

how many games are not full screen and dont have a minimize button?
alt-tab, ctrl-esc work...

Atahualpa · November 17, 2000, 03:27

Thanks Markos, answering the last one was really important!! If there was no empire manager where I would see all cities listed I wouldnt buy the game!

ATa

Rainstorm · November 17, 2000, 09:52

Meabbot, I believe it has been said above, but the F2 key is the one I use almost all the time to manage production, the status tab will show you all cities, what they are producing, and how many turns to go. The other tab will show you current figures for production, science, etc, so you can compare your numbers.

Tilemacho · November 17, 2000, 10:25

quote:

Originally posted by meabbott on 11-17-2000 12:09 AM
There is no obvious way to tell if there are any units that haven’t been given orders. If, for example, you do something on a city, there is no easy way to get back into the unit orders mode...

If you press "o" then the next unit available becomes selected no matter where you are! I don't remember seeing that somewhere but I remember it from CTP1

You must be careful because there are many things not spotted at first sight

[This message has been edited by Tilemacho (edited November 17, 2000).]

Ralf · November 17, 2000, 11:11

quote:

Originally posted by meabbott on 11-17-2000 12:09 AM
Same thing with cities. I appreciate that the city names turn yellow,...

Two minor Yes/No type of questions that im almost embarrassed to ask, but its nethertheless important for a dedicated micro-manager, like myself.
I previously got the info that if a city doesnt have any orders left, the map will automatically re-center to that city (if auto-cycle is turned on) at the end of that turn.

1: Does the same apply to units without orders?

2: The name of the city/unit turns yellow, i know. How about blinking? Does "yellow" cities blink? Does units blink?

meabbott · November 17, 2000, 17:13

quote:

Originally posted by MarkG on 11-17-2000 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by meabbott on 11-17-2000 12:09 AM
There is no obvious way to tell if there are any units that haven’t been given orders.

click on the terrain to deselect and hit "n" or hit "u"(i think)

Thanks, I will try it. It is not really an acceptable way for a game to handle turn to turn operations like this, but if it gets me through the game, good.

quote:

On a related note, there is no easy way to tell what units are in a particular square and what state (active, fortified, sentinel, etc).

at least for the first one, click on the little arrow next to the current unit's name on the unti tab of the control panel

Again, this is a turn to turn operation. I don't see the purpose of pressing a button to get information that should be immediately displayed.

quote:

I don’t understand the purpose of the unit manager since all it seems to do is list the number of any given type of units you have.

some day you might need it

for unit managment on a tile use the army manager
(right-click)

Need it for what? It only seems to do one useful thing. I will try the unit management function.

quote:

The city manager is much better, but there doesn’t seem to be any way to list the cities and see who is building what – you have to scroll through each one individually.

empire manager(F2), status tab

Thanks, will try it.

quote:

I further don’t understand why the minimize button is not on the screen. Is this not a Windows application?

how many games are not full screen and dont have a minimize button?
alt-tab, ctrl-esc work...

Far too many don't have a minimize button. This is a trend that needs to be reversed. Obscure alternatives to a well known function aren't acceptable for the masses who wouldn't know about it. The number of people I have seen complaining about that can back me up on that (though I am sure they will be thankful for the alternative).

Thank you for the extensive response and I am looking forward to trying your suggestions when I get home where my CD is.

meabbott · November 17, 2000, 17:16

quote:

Originally posted by Tilemacho on 11-17-2000 09:25 AM
If you press "o" then the next unit available becomes selected no matter where you are! I don't remember seeing that somewhere but I remember it from CTP1

You must be careful because there are many things not spotted at first sight

That is my point. This is the kind of information that needs to be on the screen like it was in CTP I. Turn to turn operations must be simple with quickly accessed info. I see pressing keys and going to this window or that for things that must be readily presentable to the player. I don't see how that could have happened. But thanks for the response, sometimes determined players for a game that is overall this good get used to oddities.

[This message has been edited by Tilemacho (edited November 17, 2000).]

Depp · November 19, 2000, 01:50

I use ICQ all the time while playing. Just alt-tab or alt-esc and you can use it. Alot better than SMAC which youi could minimise but the 256 only colors made nothing work.
I must say CTP 2 is really fun. Best game in awhile to me...