CTP2 Negatives Reported So Far

Paul D · November 21, 2000, 22:44

I've scoured the General forum (only!) so far and gathered these points on people's opinions of the new ctp. From them, I'm really not at all driven to consider this game for a purchase.

- Cnnot bombard land from sea, or sea from land until artilery/battleship tech level units are attained
(This means Ship of Line/Iron clad can't!)
- No Legion unit at all (what the hell is that about?!)
- Empire state building used as wonder for diplomacy?! Pht!
- No space era anymore, some people seem to miss that
- Some reviewers say it has no serious innovations, it copies ctp1 principles and should have been a patch
(http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum35/HTML/000516.html?0)
- Border concepts flawed because border extends over water to next peice of land, when it should be more reasonable such as 1 to 2 tiles out from the land
- have to buy more copies to play on lan, no hot-seat!
- only 3 scenarios included
- no warnings about city about to revolt, only after revolts happen (could be added to slic, but why should we have to do Activisions work? )
- IGN review says mayors often need to be turned off or overided because they don't make good choices
- some people want PW and old-style tile improvements
- odd repsonses to diplomacy (constant rejection of proposal even though a good relation exists)
- Great library description says forests add substantial bonus to production yet they only have a value of 5P? Plains have 10P!
- mayors will start building things in stupid ways (like a tank that will needs 60 turns to finish when you don't even need that item)
- stupid deaths from unmatched units still (7 ship of line on direct attack of city lost to 2 catapult, 3 archer, 3 pikemen with no losses on enemy side!) (http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum35/HTML/000518.html?4)

So the one item missing so far in my reading - does the game still have that crap of AI city crowding?

Can you disband large cities? (Who wants to try and manage 50+ cities from all the civs you beat even with mayors, and why should you have to spend a half hour starving it down to less than size 4 like in ctp1 to get rid of a city?!)

Seriously curious.

jkadabomb · November 21, 2000, 23:00

Well I suspect more then have of these problems will be corrected with a patch. And some of them are not problems but rather solutions, like getting rid of space. Others arent positive but arent negative either (like the legion).

jkadabomb · November 21, 2000, 23:02

Oh ya 3 scenarios isnt really a problem. There will be plenty of scenarios available soon anyways.

Flavius Aetius · November 21, 2000, 23:09

Paul D,

Ok, I've read some of my comments in your post. But let me tell you this : don't base your judgement on particular detail to judge the quality of a product.

I'll explain. People are reporting preferences and disapointments. I would prefer coastal bombardment, but considering other point of view, I can be wrong for asking them at all cost. We should look the product as a whole.

You say this product is not perfect? Find one who is!

I cant. I will not say how I hate that particular game for which particular reason... if I don't like the promise of a game (or the game itself), well I will just not look forward to it...I will not come on a forum designed for the fans of that particular game to say how much I find this game stupid or other scrap...I will just put my interest elsewhere (I dont know for you, but my so little precious time of gameplay and entertainment, I dont plan on losing it posting non-sense post or comments about a game of which I have absolutely no interest...get my point?).

This game is, from my point of view, as good as I hoped it to be. It is different! That's all! I bought this game because it wasnt an other Civilisation 2. If I wanted an exact copy of Civilisation , I would have reinstalled Civilisation 2, got my other point here?

For now, the review I've seen is so biased. All those reviewer made a review on a game that ask at least 1-2 day to judge... so rapidly....well for me they just scracht the capabilities of this excellent, but not perfect, game. They are comparing this product with, just say, Sid Meir's Alpha Centaury or Civilisation 2, but the problem is there...it cannot be compared, cause it is different. Have you ever remarked that people who loved Civ:CTP hated SMAC and vice-versa? Now just ask yourself why? Cause it's different!

In my case, the aproach made by this game toward empire management is so fun that it is, in my humble and personnal point of view, the best civilisation building game. The only reason I'm making such comment is for one reason :cause I like this game and want to give my opinions to make it even better.

Think about it!

Big Dave · November 22, 2000, 00:19

quote:

Originally posted by jkadabomb on 11-21-2000 10:00 PM
Well I suspect more then have of these problems will be corrected with a patch. And some of them are not problems but rather solutions, like getting rid of space. Others arent positive but arent negative either (like the legion).

Jkadabomb, Activision has not commited to support this product with a patch, therefore your suspicions are irrelevant. There may not be a patch. Then again, there might. Nobody, not even Activision, knows yet.

As for posting what you don't like a about the game, please do continue. I haven't purchased it yet, and player feedback, both positive and negative, is very much desired by me. Also, Activision frequents these forums. If we don't post our dislikes here, how will they know what to patch, or even whether they should make a patch? Flavius, some criticism is not a bad thing. Paul could have been overlooking how to change the things that he was not happy with and you might have been able to help him.

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Big Dave

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me!

Paul D · November 22, 2000, 20:22

>>You say this product is not perfect? Find one who is! I cant.

No. I did not say that.

>>I suspect more then have of these problems will be corrected with a patch.

Don't hold your breath. Patches they released for CTP were bare minimum fixes - and quite ineffectual at that (my opinion, since they did not address issues I posted concerns about ).

I think thats a pretty serious list of grievances I've come across for looking into just ONE forum of ONE CTP site on one night with the game having only been out for ONE week! Some people, as mentioned already, DO want to hear the opinions, because 50 bucks (or more) is a pretty penny to be dishing out for a game - would you buy a tin of food or package of meat if it had no label to tell you what it was and what it's best before date was? I like to make informed decisions about my purchases. I don't think its wrong to follow the feedback and compile it in a single location for others who are also seeking review points to make a decision from.

Can anyone answer the questions I posed before -
What size city can you disband up to? More than 4?

Does the AI still overpopulate with cities in crammed formations?

November 22, 2000, 20:25

quote:

Originally posted by Paul D on 11-22-2000 07:22 PM
What size city can you disband up to? More than 4?

3, i believe

quote:

Does the AI still overpopulate with cities in crammed formations?

nope

November 22, 2000, 20:30

quote:

Originally posted by Paul D on 11-22-2000 07:22 PM
I like to make informed decisions about my purchases. I don't think its wrong to follow the feedback and compile it in a single location for others who are also seeking review points to make a decision from.

only thing though, you only gathered the negative things people have mentioned. why not do a list of the positive? it would help for more informed decisions, right?

jkadabomb · November 22, 2000, 22:59

Alright sorry for my comment. But actually did think the patches in CPT1 did make a difference although not as much as I would have liked. I still believe problems with borders and mayors and AI can be improved with a patch. But you are right, activision doesnt and may not release any patches. If CTP2 is a decent success I a am pretty sure they will support it with a further patch. If some of the minor issues are not corrected with a patch then maybe activision isnt really that good of a company and there products are as good quality......

Mike the Nuke · November 22, 2000, 23:02

I have reviewed both sets of reviews. My concern is the removal/lack of with no indication of a patch to add in the future, Hot Seat. Many of the 'positive things listed sound intriging (spelling again) and make me even more disappointed that Hot Seat isn't in the game. The game sounds different, which could be good. The game designers made decisions on units, time frames and balances. I can except that, and would be interested in trying them, but I am NOT interested in 'play with yourself games' any longer (I have enough of them already, uninstalled, in their boxes, thrown in the garage (some place). We pplay Civ2 TOT 'Hot Seat' and CTP-I Hotseat at home (the whole family) all the time. The negatives on the forums are also important. Although I do not (and probably will never, without the Hot Seat option) own this game, I can visualize both the negatives and positvies listed and understand those opinions and even agree that I would feel the same way, providing they are accurate.

I read both sides , just in that 'slim case in hell' case Activision sees fit to put out (If they are able to) a Hot Seat Patch. Fifty bucks is a lot. CTP-I stayed around $50.00 for a long time after its initial release. By the time I bought it, the first patch was out and the second about a month later. Therefor, I probably 'misssed out' on much of the 'bug' torments that many of the forum members had to deal with.

Keep the reviews coming. If they are good, state why. If they are bad (or suck), state why also. No review is worth anything if the reasons you like or dislike it are not made clear. Also, it would be nice to know if you bought the game and were not 'given' one for review purposes. The reviews also hold more value over time, as positive reviews often occur because its a 'new toy' with 'new gadgets'. Later it gets old and that 'new toy charm' goes away and faults stick out more. Negatives early on can also 'pop' up because the game is missing something you wanted or not done up to you individual preference. I would be a terrible (negative biased) reviewer of this game. Why?

"Because there is no HOT SEAT option". That doesn't make the game all bad. But to me, it is worthless.I MUST give this site and the Activision persons commenting on this site credit where credit is do. By stating that their was no Hot Seat option (good, bad or indifferent), they saved me $50 and great financial as well as entertainment disappointment. They could have side stepped this, but they didn't. Thanks for being honest, anyway. That's one way reviews and/comments have value. That's what this site is for, I believe.

Well, back to our CTP-I Hot Seat game. A nuke war is about to happen. At least in a game like this you can 'nuke' folks for 'fun'. Better in the game than for 'real'.

Keep all the reviews and info coming!

jkadabomb · November 23, 2000, 12:02

The new time frames are awsome and the lenght of the game is much longer allowing you to have much more fun. Also the interface is extremely well done(once you get the hang of it) and is much easier to use. I personally like the sound track, and the new unit manager is excellent. I havent found any bugs other then a few in the message boxes but nothing to hamper gameplay. Also this time around AI is not stupid. AI keeps its cities extremely well defended and has a balance in its defense with some close range and long range units defending them. It took me forever to capture an opponenents city that was extremely well gaurded and I am playing on easy!!!! Also the oponent was very weak and is the weakest overall while I am the strongest!!!!! maybe the AI defended that city more because it was isolated from the rest of his citys and it was on MY continent. I dont use mayors since I never ever use any automanage feature in any video game I play.

hroman21 · November 23, 2000, 22:38

I have not purchased CTPII yet because I feel that the original CTP was not good enough for me to rush out and buy CTPII. I remember having felt quite cheated at the end result of the game and paying $50 for it. Sure, the game had nice graphics and a wounderful sound track, original wonders, and cool technologies/units. However, I found that overall gameplay was pretty bad - to the point that it required a mod from an outside individual to rebalance and fix the game (CD's Mod).

That said, I feel quite nervous about the new CTPII and have a few questions that will decide if I purchase the game. Specifically, I have three questions on the game:

1) Did the combat system get worked on vs. the original game? Recall that the combat system was very unbalanced and resulted in many strange results. this was one of my personal issues with the game.

2) Is the tech tree balanced? In the previous game it was not uncommon that if you lagged behind in technology, it was almost impossible to catch up - no matter what you did.

3) Are the wonders more balanced?

All of the improvements related to the Diplomacy are appreciated since the original game did suffer from poor diplomacy implementation, but frankly, I would rather have seen the efforts of Activision focused on fixing the items mentioned above vs. diplomacy. I value more balanced combat and technology over a good diplomacy sub-routine any day.

Regards,
hroman21

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"Laughter is the most powerful weapon ever created. Against laughter, nothing stands!"

jkadabomb · November 24, 2000, 02:03

Combat is extremely well done and balanced and requires some strategy. However there are alot of anachronisms in the tech tree (historical innacurices, something that shakespeare did alot of in his plays, for example he mentioned chimneys in his Play Julies Ceaser but they never existed in ancient rome.) Also the wonders arent very well balanced in my opinion, in fact even the pyramids dont expire. But I still think overall all its a great game worth buying.