Brilliant AI move or dumb luck?

rwz · November 22, 2000, 05:06

I was sweeping up the Irish when they built a city on a one tile Island. Now how do I capture it? I have infantry and cannons but do not have Marines. Even if I had marines would they be able to attack right from a transport (like in SMAC ) or do they have to land first then attack, cause if they do I'm screwed! I would't be able to take their city until I get bombers or missiles. Or am I missing something basic?

Yoleus · November 22, 2000, 06:16

You should get it with marines in an amphibious assault, or bombarding with battleships -yes, THEY can bombard land.

Yoleus · November 22, 2000, 06:17

And I would guess dumb luck... I mean, if the AI considered that, it is really awesome, even more ruthless that some humans

Locutus · November 22, 2000, 11:09

If you don't have any units that can bombard land yet, build several stacks of the most advanced ships you *do* have and attack the conventional way. Once all units are dead and the city is empty (if there are a lot of units in the city it might cost you a few stacks), you *should* be able to simply have any land unit unboard inside it, not just marines. But this only works if the city is empty. (At least this was how it worked in CtPI, I haven't actually tried yet in CtPII).

Yoleus · November 22, 2000, 11:41

quote:

Originally posted by Locutus on 11-22-2000 10:09 AM
(if there are a lot of units in the city it might cost you a few stacks)

Yes Locutus, from other threads it seems that these battles are way in favour of the grounded defender... When I will have the game I will check.

ENGINEER · November 22, 2000, 11:54

The Greek AI did the same to me. A big city on a one tile island surround ocean, but close to all the other land. I could not take the city until I killed all his units with bombarding from battleships and then moved a unit into the city when it was empty. I did not try to directly attack before because the land units easily killed my SOTL's and ironclad's. It is defintely a nice defensive position early on in the game.

Yoleus · November 22, 2000, 12:07

So IT IS ruthlessly clever! Nice to know, and a + on my opinion (already positive) on CTPII.

Yoleus · November 22, 2000, 12:10

The strength of grounded defence is probably a way of balancing the game, pushing combined arms and marines instead of just massive fleets without air-groud support. I shall say that I agree with this intention, if it is the case.

JamesJKirk · November 22, 2000, 15:04

Yeah, I had the Assyrians pull this on my, boy was I dismayed when I figgered out how FEW ships can bombard land! I just attacked the island with a ship the old fashioned way, and lucky for us all Hoplites don't beat Ships of the Line! I think it has to do with AI intelligence, since as I was crushing this empire they sent settlers to all corners of the globe to escape my wrath and just survive, and it seemed like a deliberate settling of that island, since the ZOC interfered with a "continental" city of theirs

Dominous Nemo · November 22, 2000, 18:37

It seems the AI does this often. At least once a game w/me. You should be able to unlaod the troops directly from the transport ships. Better to bombard w/ships first if you have the tech..

jkadabomb · November 22, 2000, 23:11

Any naval units can attacck a city even if not bombard, heck I attacked a coastal city with one submarine although it didnt do any damage and died quickly. But get 6or7 battleships and they will anniahlate all the units in the city then launch unload any unit into the city once all the units in the city are gone.

Zane_NBK · November 23, 2000, 01:54

The AI also pulled this on me in the very first game I played. The French built a colony on a one tile island right off the coast of my main continent. They now claim exactly one tile of my continent and are probably pissed at me for being on "their" continent.

Lousy French.

-Zane

PrinceBimz · November 23, 2000, 06:26

Well, the AI has not done this to me yet but so far I am still in my first game so I imagine it will happen eventually. But I done something similar to this. I built a city on a two square tile. I placed a few Infantry on the second square fortified. This city served as an air base and put my airforce in range of the enemy continent. This was the whole reason I had done this because I did not have carriers at the time. I was also using it to dock and repair damaged ships. Anyway it worked pretty well for me, kind of reminded my why the U.S. wanted Saipan, to put bombers in range of Japan homeland.

Sarxis · November 23, 2000, 20:04

I have seen a one tile island city.

mananath · November 25, 2000, 01:22

the AI did the same to me in a game I just finished. Early on in the game I was near to exterminating a civ when I discovered the "last" city (which was brand new) on a 1 square island.

Metamorph · November 26, 2000, 15:25

When it happened to me, the AI built TWO cities on one-tile islands... in the middle of a lake. So now I had to build ships from cities adjacent to the lake (lucky I had any at all) until I could pound these cities into dust -- a complete waste of ships, since now they're stuck in this silly lake.

What annoys me is that it's absolutely impossible to wage war on these island-cities until you have ships capable of combat -- and even then, you can only use the ships, with no other form of support. Oh well, quirks will be quirks.

- Metamorph

wheathin · November 27, 2000, 11:47

Could you use a spy or something to subvert the city? Or slavers and preists to try to get it to revolt?

Historically, cities of this type were virtually impregnable until gunpowder, unless treachery of some sort was involved.

Jonny · November 29, 2000, 21:16

The AI also did this to me in my very first game. It was a decent size when I was ready to capture it (size 25). I tried bringing in marines on ships, but the city was too well defended (12 units). It was close to my continent, so I used a nuke on it, then sent in a troop ship with some troops to capture it.

I want to know why it was so heavily defended if it was on an island???

marc420 · December 3, 2000, 09:56

quote:

Originally posted by wheathin on 11-27-2000 10:47 AM
Historically, cities of this type were virtually impregnable until gunpowder, unless treachery of some sort was involved.

Can you say Malta? Gibralter isn't too far from being in this category either.

wheathin · December 4, 2000, 10:39

"Can you say Malta? Gibralter isn't too far from being in this category either. "

I'm not sure what your argument is... That Malta and Gibraltar were difficult to take, or easy?

MrFun · December 4, 2000, 11:24

You know, I just don't see any production value in one-tile island cities for either the human player or the computer player.

They are very effective and easy to defend - big deal - where is the production in a city with nothing but ocean for tiles? Unless of course, this one tile island is set so that land from a continent nearby is in its city radius.

wheathin · December 4, 2000, 14:23

They make great airbases and naval bases for refueling and interdicting shipping.

Single island cities generate tons of gold from all the water, and thus good science as well (at least in CtP - dunno CtP2).

When they get big, can't they use their extended radii in CtP2 to reach out to undersea volcanoes and undersea mines?

Dominous Nemo · December 5, 2000, 20:47

It's kinda like Hawaii ! Just an observation.

Alpha Wolf · December 6, 2000, 00:17

I've seen this alot in both CtP1 and CtP2 already. I've also seen the AI build on a land locked lake island. i tried to drop a paratrooper into it but later found out it was defended by a stickin lawyer and that was it. Hopefully CtP2 will build real armies on these islands. Nothin more annoying than those lawyers "shooting" down paratroopers. To me, it seems like if the AI finds a single square island of any flat type, it intentionally tries to build there.

Shooter · December 10, 2000, 16:36

Another cool thing I saw the AI do was abandon a city. I was on the verge of killing the civ, there was no possible way for them to defend themselves, so they packed up and left. I sort of wondered why, but it wasn't long until I found out. They settled a city in the mountains, and stored all the troops they had in there. Now I mean completely surrounded by mountains. Some of my units couldn't go through the mountains to attack the city. My superior tech got pounded by them because of their defensive bonus. I lost my whole attack stack, and it was years before I was able to attack again (they had settled another 2 cities).