Flagrant Cheating by the AI

[C Chulainn]

I've noticed that the AI cheats. Quite a lot. The higher the difficulty, the more it cheats. Some of the cheats I've noticed are;
1. Wonders. In spite of what the manual said, the AIs don't have to build them at all; the city just gets assigned lots of shields (I started to notice how fast wonders were being built so I turned on Cheat and looked at the cities which had nearly completed them ... things were happening like tiny cities on islands completing wonders in a few turns - and the civ in question didn't even have Trade)
2. Civs ally with each other "to contain [your] aggression" yet when you try and pay them to attack each other they have (or say they have!) no contact with each other.
3. If you have Space Flight, a diplomat or spy which gets into one of your cities ALWAYS automatically steals Space Flight - irrespective of what other tech you have that they don't, and spies have no chance to stop them - this free theft of S.F. rule will also allow the AI to steal a 2nd tech from the same city.
4. I'm not certain about this, but... the AI always creates farmland as soon as they have Refridgeration, yet I can't remember ever capturing a city with a Supermarket in it, which leads me to believe AI cities get the benefit of farmland without one.
5. The AI always knows which of your cities has SDI Defence and will nuke only the ones that don't.

[Matthew]

Of course the AI cheats. If it didn't it would not possibly be able to present much of a challenge against half way decent players. Civ is not like chess, where a few simple heuristics combined with a lot of raw computer power, efficiently used, can carry the day even against Grand Masters. In civ there are just too many possible actions to be able to compute all possibilities even for a single round, and the AI just can't reason that well.

You did miss one. Ever notice that once the AI can start building a space ship part it can crank one out of any city, even size 1 or 2, in 1 turn, without spending money?

Another one you missed, the AI's in effect have the Light House. Ever see one of there triremes sink cause it left the coast?
And ever notice how rare it is for one of your non vet triremes to beat an AI trireme?

As far as the wonders go, when an AI abandons a wonder to build something else the excess shields are not lost. They seem to be accounted for, andf then given to the next wonder that that city, or perhaps any city of that civ, builds.

[Smash]

ai bombers don't have to land.

ai can bribe with any unit,not just spies and dips.Happens every once in awhile.I've lost units and cities to crusaders and partisans that bribed.

ai dips can steal techs from the same city repeatedly.In an OCC game I had 13 techs stolen in 1 turn by the same civ(French)

Occasionally,I run into a "super" unit.Such as a barb horse that beats a fortified vet pikeman.

Seems I can move settler around anywhere but when I take 1 step into the "black" there just happens to be a barb legion there.

on emp and deity the ai food and sheild boxes are smaller.

the ai is not subject to the same conditions with happiness as the human player

the ai gets new units the same turn it develops a new technology regardless of whether it has Leo's or not.

ai boats can carry more units than they are supposed to

the ai does not have to be adjacent to water to irrigate

[finbar]

And the AI's food boxes are about half the size of ours, thus they can grow cities to enormous sizes.

And the AI can have 3 (or more) times more units attached to a city than shields in the city.

The list is absolutely endless. I gave up worrying about it ages ago. Fact of life. The thing is, we still beat the AI regardless.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[geofelt]

The ai allocates all shields where it needs, not just to the city that generated them. Programming ease is the likely reason. The ai steals space flight to make a race of it. In occ, just surround your city with units. Otherwise, seal off chokepoints and watch unoccupied squares near your cities.
I also notice that the AI cheats in your favor; any defense in your only palace city will usually stop barbarians, even chariots.

[C Chulainn]

At King level (which is what I usually play at unless I'm after having some fun "bombing the primitives" like in Civ1) the shield boxes vary in size. I think this depends on how well you're doing - I've noticed if I have lots of wonders they shrink, whereas if the AIs are giving me a run for my money they stay the same size.

[Seeker]

Have you ever noticed the occasional AI fighter that doesn't need to land? Also, if you're #1 and especially if it's the 19th century, the AI's will ignore each other's "diplomacy rating" and share all technology within a turn or 2-3. Very annoying if your trying to cultivate a primitive civ.

"And the AI can have 3 (or more) times more units attached to a city than shields in the city"

No, Finbar, you are wrong here. Actually this is probably the only thing in which the AI does not cheat. Do not forget that under despotism, monarchy and fundamentalism, you can build unsupported units.

[finbar]

I've seen the AI with a negative shield count under all forms of government, my friend.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

And, how did you see it?
[This message has been edited by benedetti (edited December 14, 1999).]

[Steve Clark]

I'm trying to not be sarcastic here, but what did you think AI is? As a software developer and former game designer, programming an AI is nothing more than defining a set of parameters and conditions. I'll give you an example using city productions. Everything you see in the AI city is cosmetic because a programmer doesn't have to program an opponent building a city like you and I (it's a waste of time and would needlessly slow the game down). Since you normally don't see their city production, all you have to do is to use flags like difficulty level and various levels of conditions (if, then, else, etc.) and program the AI so that, in so many turns or at a particular stage in the game, it will build X. How it does it is irrelevant.

Another example. It is programmed to say that in so many turns, it will have Y number of food, shields, arrows, units, etc. Y is one of the factors of difficulty levels (where it takes you 2x to add another citizen, the AI can do it 1.5x). All it matters that it builds X or Y, not how it does it and whether it can.

Additionally, do you think that the AI explores? Of course not, it knows the map. But the point is that it can easily be programmed so that it looks like it is exploring. You do this by 1) knowing the number of squares and impedences between AI cities A1, A2... and your cities B1, B2... and 2) timeframe of the game (whether there are slow or fast units) and it then calculates that it would typically take X number of turns before it comes in contact with you.

One of the most difficult thing to program is coordinated movements of units (like an attack force). It can only process a finite set of variables at one time (if X and Y is Z and A > B and C is not null, as an example). That is why the AI attacks in a piecemeal fashion.

As to the examples of units acting against the rules or that it steals/gets advances outside of the tree, these are all factors used to maintain a competitive level with you.

These simplistic examples are all factors of play balance. In most turn-based economic strategy games, one programs the AI to build units at a faster rate than you at the higher difficulty levels, whether the resources are there or not. That is why it's harder to play at those levels.

In thinking about AI, remember this, the AI can play a game against another AI WITHOUT any graphics. All that you see as the user interface in the game is just for your benefit.

[Comrade Dan]

If it takes you 100 shields to build something, it takes the AI 80 shields.

The AI needs no water to irrigate - just the town centre.

If you land on a coastal area a la D-Day, AI Bombers will attack you, REGARDLESS of if it has already explored the map.

The AI can take over a civ in a matter of turns, but then takes years to take over the last city.

The AI seperates itself into two parts when they ally themselves against you. I started four World Wars by having what I call the 'Triple Entente' vs. the 'Triple Alliance'.

[finbar]

Steve Clark - good points, well made. It's typical of us humans to want to personalise the oppo. Part of the fun, really, envisaging the Mongol leader sitting out there in the darkness scheming against you.

Benedetti - Unless I misunderstand your question, by taking an AI city and discovering the situation within the city.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

Finbar,

Yes, you understood my question, and I thank you for responding. You had made me doubt for a moment

Aside from the fact that conquered cities lose 1-point population (and as a result of that, probably shield power) I guess you have missed the importance of the government forms you and the AI had at the moment of the "catch".

Example: if the AI was in Fundamentalism and you took over the city as a Democarcy, YOU (not the AI) will now have lots of unsupported units from that city . Same if the AI was in Monarchy or Despotism.


If the AI was in Democracy, Republic, or Communism, you will not find even one unsupported unit from your conquered city.

Take a look at the city just BEFORE conquering it. You will see that there are no unsupported units (yet )


benedetti

[C Chulainn]

It's all well and good to make patronising remarks about the AI being only the tool of a programmer and so on, but the manual tends to lead one to believe that at King level, it is competing fairly against you; the prorammers foresight against you, if you will, when in actual fact the whole thing is fixed to "keep it challenging" until you discover some sort of gamebreaker ... but what if you *don't want* a challenge and just want to lord it over primitives, if only in your imagination. After all, the civs are called Celts, Zulus, Russians and so on, and the AI leaders are called Caesar, Henry VIII etc. - not just Leader 1 of Civilization 1 with their capital at A1.

[finbar]

Benedetti - I'll have a damn hard look next time. It doesn't often happen anyway. Usually it's the AI monstering me and I'm damn sure they don't post messages to the AI version of this site (of which I'm sure there's one, somewhere, in another dimension) and grizzle about me. Or maybe they do.

CC - I suspect it's a case of the manual writers wanting to believe it's a fair test, etc. It is, until about 20,000 games later, and the human nouse has nutted out most things. That's why, hopefully, Civ 3, if it ever happens, will have a more advanced (or developed) AI. Until, 20,000 games later, human nouse nuts that one out, too.

I still think Steve Clark made good points very well. They're things we tend to forget.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Sieve Too]

You all forgot one of the biggest cheats: AI cities generate no pollution. The AI never builds Mass Transit, Solar or Recycling Plant. If you capture or bribe one of their large cities, you will often get a big pollution generator.

Another: AI has half of the Statue of Liberty, it can change gov'ts instantly w/o Anarchy.

Another: AI Democracies can declare war and can't be made to collapse.

[Steve Clark]

Sieve: Half of the SoL?

CC: I can assure you that the 'names' in the program are nothing more than variables (X,Y,A1,etc.). By using the rules.txt and some of the other files in the directory which lists city names, leaders, etc. All it does is read the file and populate the appropriate variable. That is why you can change names of everything (just as long as you don't change the order or its placement). The program does not care.

finbar is very correct about the manual writers. Typically, they are not the programmers or designers, but people who can effectively communicate instructions and to spin a good story about the game (the MGE manual is perhaps the best I have ever read). It all makes much more fun for the gamer, but don't fool yourself in thinking that the AI can think like a human or has such characteristics.

I apologize if my remarks are partonizing, it is not intentional. I've been playing strategy games since the 1980s as well as programming since then. The subject of AI in games is one of my pet topics and in a number of discussions, a sore point because people unfairly critize the AI for not being more than what it is.

By the way, in newer RTS games (which I don't play), the AI is more 'intelligent' in that it forces the AI to build like a human and only use the resources that are available (using the example of Age of Kings). The reason is that all units and cities are exposed so you can't fake it. It can have a multiplier (e.g., building 1.5x faster) to maintain competiveness at harder levels.

[Bohlen]

How's this for AI cheating...I was finishing up a game last night on a custom map that kept all civs from expanding too much. My fundy Celts were bribing cities as much as possible and took a Chinese city that shared a small island with the only 3 Aztec cities. The Aztec capital had 5 WOWs and I was building up a heavy supply of dips and military personnel to take it. The first cheat was when my wave of 8 dips took out most, if not all, of the capital's improvements, including the city walls. After a failed attempt to take the city by force, I began to restock my supply of dips and grunts so that I could try again in a few turns. A few turns passed and I investigated the capital to see what was up. In just a few turns, ALL of the improvements had been rebuilt, including city walls. The AI rebuilt 8 improvements in 5-6 turns!

Next came the most unfair AI tactic I've ever seen. The Japanese were intent on world domination and had bought an Aztec city just south of the Aztec capital during my attempt to take it by force. A few more turns passed and the Japanese bribed the Aztec capital! How could this be? Capitals can't be bought! I never received message that the capital had changed and was never given the option to buy it myself. Has anyone seen these two AI back stabbing techniques before?

I do agree with most of Steve's remarks on AI programming and what is needed to keep the game competitive at higher levels, but the total disregard for rules when it happens right in front of your eyes is very frustrating. AI irrigation on a square not adjacent to water and smaller production boxes is one thing, but the AI bribing an enemy capital is quite another.

[Bohlen]

Thanks for the tips, Scouse Git (2). I only wish I could have relied on a naval bombardment, but the city was not on a coast. That would have made a huge difference. I did have to hurry things up a bit...the turns remaining until 2020 were limited. Patience is a huge problem for me and it hurt me in this game as I went for it all a little too early.

When the Japanese took the capital, I had to save funds with the hopes that I could take it near the end, but still did not have enough gold.

5 WOWs in that city. Man, that hurt.

[C Chulainn]

Pollution ... I don't think that can be counted as the AI cheating, because pollution counts as a penalty to your score; it wouldn't do the AI civs any damage unless it got the point where it was starving their cities!

[Sten Sture]

Pollution also reduces the production of the square where it occurs to Despotism(?) government production.

(In the OCC games, pollution on a trade special is bad and pollution on a shield producing square that takes you down to 79 shields when you are building your spaceship is horrible!)

[rah]

That's why you keep two non-engineers in occ.
Problem solved. If you can bribe them early, they're cheap.

RAH

[Jim W]

In my case, the AI doesn't need to cheat. It just ties ten meg (the rough equivalent of one arm) behind it's back and goes to work with a snicker.

Actually, I've very seldom actually been wiped out, just never managed to get to AC by 2020.

JimW

[Scouse Gits]

Bohlen

I have never suffered cheating on that scale before. At least you can now buy the former Aztec capital from the Japanese.

If you have to use diplos to bring down the city walls (prefer naval bombardment or siege if possible) send one diplo to investigate the place so you have some facts. Assuming the city walls will be the last thing to be destroyed - you need one for each improvement (excluding palace), plus one for the sabotage of current production. I always think the AI doesn’t cheat as much if it knows you are monitoring it! This initial look at things may tell you to forget the plan for the present, as the defenders may have sufficient power without the city walls – saving you an unnecessary defeat.

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Scouse Git (2)

[johnmcd]

The AI in my game just invented space flight and plastics on one turn. I then suffered in silence as, on the same turn he built all his structurals and components and blew up engineers of mine with helicopters from nowhere.
[This message has been edited by johnmcd (edited December 16, 1999).]

[jpk]

For the human player pollution reduces shield, food, and trade production. None of these things happens to the AI.

I just figure that the AI plays by different rules than the human player. A giant advantage the human player has is that you are told when the AI is about to complete a Wonder. I find this to be a huge help.

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If you can not think of a good reason to build something other than a caravan, build a caravan!

[Sten Sture]

Hey, I've got a dip close to that AI city that is almost done building a WoW... what does this industial sabotage thing do???

And no matter what the turn order is, the human lead civ always completes their wonder first.

another chance to use the sig...

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If you can not think of a really good reason why you should build something other than a caravan, build a caravan. - jpk

[poppawoppa]

Regarding Pollution
In my current Diety game, I had a city that I was trying to get the most shields from, and let it mine some hills which gave extra shields, but also showed two (2) of the yellow triangle pollution signs. I paid it little attention since I have had cities with 6 to 8 for several turns and maybe then have gotten a polluted square. Here, wouldn't you know, the next turn, there was a polluted city square. As you know, I then have to put one or two engineers to work to clean it up, but for that time, there is a loss of shields and food etc.
It happened that during that turn, I investigated the city of Paris with 27 citizens. There was 24 pollution triangles in the city box, but not one indication of pollution in the area. So, the AI doesn't have to spend engineer time cleaning up after itself. Aggravating.

Then, I watched as the AI (which was well ahead of me during this game), struggled to build the Apollo. (HA HA). It lined up 10 cities in building this wonder. I sent a spy around in 1989 to see how the Wonder was coming. Well, Several cities had between 390 and 410 shields credited to the Apollo Wonder. Each city was generating between 14 and 35 shields per turn. Now, get this! The very next year 1990, I sent my spy around to those same cities to check again. And this time each city had 480 shields. I had gotten the message that the French were nearly done with the Apollo Wonder. The city of Besancon had 390 shields with a 14 shield excess production in 1989, and in 1990, the Wonder now had 480 shields. Thats 90 shields for a credit against the 14 shield production level.

Now, I must admit that this was offset some when in the 1991 turn, one city was listed as having completed the Apollo Wonder, and then each of the other 9 cities began to be shown as having completed a space ship part. So, assuming they all had above 480 credited shields, you might suppose that the AI would build the Modules which take 320 shields???? NOT!!! 6 cities completed SS Structurals worth 80 shields, and 2 cities completed SS Components, worth 160 shields. The 10th city must have switched to something else, cause I never got a notice of what it had built...... obviously, not a SS part.

One last CHEAT to report. The AI had just built all those SS parts etc. So, I went to each of those cities with my spy to see what else they were doing. Lo and behold, one of those cities had already completed 39 shields toward another SS Structural (with the city production of 24 shields).

When I complete anything, I have to assign a new task in the turn I complete, and so the shield box is empty until the turn after that one. Not so the AI, it already had shields credited to the box as soon as the current project was done.

Lastly, this AI civ put a city in the area north of my main continent area. As I first noticed it (because, as it happens, the entire map was now revealed due to Apollo), I sent a spy over to see what was going on. She found that it was empty, no defenders near by. But this is the interesting part, the city was established on river/grassland, and the center square was already generating 3 food, 1 shield, and 3 trade...with no engineering guys around to have irrigated or roaded that square. So, I waited around with my spy for the next turn to see how the barbs would do. They got close, but not in a position to attack, so I looked in the city again. WOW!! with 5 food, 2 shields, and 5 trade from the city square and the one worker, the city had already gotten 40 shields credited for the production of and Alpine Troop (to defend against the Barbs)...out of 2 shields. The food box now showed a surplus of 3 of the 20 needed to go to another citizen, so I know it was just 1 turn. It also already had a Cruise Missile in the troop Units Present box.

So it goes. It's now 2000 and the space ship they launched will be there in 2012. Unless, I take Paris first, and the city of Strausborg as well, since they have 2 Nuclear Missles there. Gotta get them out of the picture. I've built 3 myself (almost...at most another 3 turns to go.) So then maybe we will get into an all out Global Warming WAR event. We'll see what we see.

[Smash]

I just lost a game where the ai stole space flight,plastics,superconductor and fusion power on 1 turn then built a SS that was 1 year faster than my allready launched ship the next turn.They were still researching electricity.