A rant, some ideas and meery xmas

D4everman · December 21, 2000, 08:02

Its a few days before Xmas, I have most of this time off (my wife will be at work at lot since she works in retail). You'd think I'd be happy because that gives lots of time to play CTP2. Well, I might but not a lot unless activisino comes out with another patch lickity split. A patch that will give the AI at least the barest hint of common sense. I don't expect the AI to be as clever as a human being but I also don't like spending a lot of time with an AI that does nothing.

The AI NEVER attacked me in my last game once we got out of the stone age. If it had I might not have had such an overwhelming lead in the latter part of the game. Even civs that despised me and WERE RIGHT NEXT TO ME did nothing! Even after I used spies and corp branches on them. Oh, they threw one or two corp branches at me that were quickly killed by a lawyer lying in wait, but thats it. No preemptive strikes, no nothing. Hell, out of boredom I attacked the AI and took two cities. When the AI did little to nothing to reclaim them I called for a cease fire. Within a few turns of that I checked and the regard they had went from "despise" to "respect." Um, let me get this straight...I crossed YOUR border, I attacked two of your cities killing troops and citizens and bombing a third and two years later you like me?

Geez, and if you can Activision, make the AI realize how to use diplomacy and keep its no trespassing agreements. Whats the point in asking a civ to withdraw? Even if they Love you and agree they won't. They'll fortify the unit in your territory so if you want it gone you have to attack. Makes no sense. Considering that the AI is pretty bad at diplomatic options would it be wise to ask for a "surrender" option? I squashed one civ that asked for a cease fire when they were down to three cities. (request denied) Why did I deny them? Because I didn't want them crossing my border (since the AI doesn't mind trespassing I didn't care whether or not if they accepted the proposal...they'd still do it) and I didn't want to fight them later on. (Hmmmm....which would have been impossible since the AI is too gutless to actually TRY and attack.)

One last thing...does the AI realize pollution damage and act accordingly? I'm asking because the Scots, the english and the irish started lobbing nukes at each other. A lot of nukes from the parts I could see. (and Activision guys you deserve five demerits for getting that auto centering thing wrong AGAIN!) Strange how they didn't bother to occupy the cities they nuked. I like the MAD option...that may be why no one nuked me. But is there a way to tell what city you've set the target for with a nuke? Once I've set the target and moved on a few turns the nuke comes up again. Sometimes I've forgotten where its targeted or if its targeted and theres no way to find out. (A targeted nuke should be "fortified" and not come up for movement orders unless the target is cleared) There should also be an option in diplomacy to find out if you've been targeted and inform rivals that they've been targeted.

Well, thats all I have for now. I had to rant this out of my system but I feel much better now. I hope everyone has a great Christmas, but on DEC 26 Activision you oughtta be working on the second patch. Hell, I have to work on the 26th.

D4

December 22, 2000, 01:16

quote:

Um, let me get this straight...I crossed YOUR border, I attacked two of your cities killing troops and citizens and bombing a third and two years later you like me?

No. Two years later, they know that you're crazy and dangerous and a lot stronger than they are...in short, you're a model statesman.

Simpleton · December 22, 2000, 21:43

THE AI IS DEFINITELY PATHETIC. I AM PLAYING A GAME ON HARD AND I HAVE NEVER BEEN ATTACKED BY ANY OF THE COMPUTER PLAYERS. EVER! ACTIVISION HAS TO MAKE IT THE AI MORE CHALLENGING!
WHEN I PLAYED CIV2 I USED TO THINK "WHY WON'T THE COMPUTER PLAYERS LET UP AND KEEP THE PEACE?!" BUT NOW I KNOW WHY. BECAUSE ITS BORING OTHERWISE. IT'S FUN TO HAVE A LITTLE WAR NOW AND THEN. IN CTP2 EVEN WHEN YOU'VE BEEN A TOTAL JERK TO THE COMPUTER AND ATTACKED THEM OVER AND OVER THE THE COMPUTER PLAYERS NEVER ATTACK!
MY QUESTION TO ACTIVISION IS: WHY WASN'T THIS NOTICED DURING PLAYTESTING? DIDN'T SOMEONE NOTICE THAT THE COMPUTER PLAYERS WERE THAT DULL?
I AM SERIOUSLY THINKING OF GOING BACK TO CIV2 WHILE I WAIT FOR CIV3. I WILL PROBABLY NOT BUY ANOTHER CTP GAME /PATCH WHATEVER YOU CALL IT!

[This message has been edited by Simpleton (edited December 22, 2000).]

Mike the Nuke · December 23, 2000, 16:35

quote:

Originally posted by Simpleton on 12-22-2000 08:43 PM
THE AI IS DEFINITELY PATHETIC. I AM PLAYING A GAME ON HARD AND I HAVE NEVER BEEN ATTACKED BY ANY OF THE COMPUTER PLAYERS. EVER! ACTIVISION HAS TO MAKE IT THE AI MORE CHALLENGING!
WHEN I PLAYED CIV2 I USED TO THINK "WHY WON'T THE COMPUTER PLAYERS LET UP AND KEEP THE PEACE?!" BUT NOW I KNOW WHY. BECAUSE ITS BORING OTHERWISE. IT'S FUN TO HAVE A LITTLE WAR NOW AND THEN. IN CTP2 EVEN WHEN YOU'VE BEEN A TOTAL JERK TO THE COMPUTER AND ATTACKED THEM OVER AND OVER THE THE COMPUTER PLAYERS NEVER ATTACK!
MY QUESTION TO ACTIVISION IS: WHY WASN'T THIS NOTICED DURING PLAYTESTING? DIDN'T SOMEONE NOTICE THAT THE COMPUTER PLAYERS WERE THAT DULL?
I AM SERIOUSLY THINKING OF GOING BACK TO CIV2 WHILE I WAIT FOR CIV3. I WILL PROBABLY NOT BUY ANOTHER CTP GAME /PATCH WHATEVER YOU CALL IT!

[This message has been edited by Simpleton (edited December 22, 2000).]

Testing????

Hey...What do think you paid the $49.95 (+/- $5.00) for?

You're doing the testing for them. They wanted to get the game out in time for Christmas, so they threw it out. Little apparent consideration for what players on this site desired to see in the game. In fact, when some options had bugs they couldn't figure out before their scheduled release date, they dropped the options. Now it appears they made a patch that needs a patch. Just in time for Christmas. Yup. Most of those who bought the game, are now playing it. They've been playing with their "Christmas present" a little early.

How's it feel to be an 'unknowing' game tester?

And, oh yes, just like I've said in the past....the AI are stupid. They are nice as additonal players but terrible as your only opponets. Humans, for the most part, are far more intelligent and provide for unlimited opposing game stratigies.

The diplomat · December 23, 2000, 18:41

Well, I do have to agree that the AI especially in diplomacy is pretty bad. I started a thread on diplomacy that talks about that. the AI rarely iniatates any real proposal other than exchange maps and the occasional cease-fire. Furthermore, the AI does not fight wars very aggressively at all. Defense is ok, but offense really needs work! The AI needs to build large stack of units and attack cities! On Hard level, I did all the attacking. The AI just bombarded me a little as I eventually conquered each city one by one. Mr AI: there is a little thing called COUNTER-ATTACK!!

I know many criticized the AI in SMAC, but folks it is LIGHT-YEARS ahead of CTP2. I started playing SMAC again, and I was amazed at the AI and the diplomacy.

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

Alpha Wolf · December 23, 2000, 19:57

I was so jealous the other day. The English had a stack of 12 outside of an Irish city. The city changed hands so I know it fought. Unfortunately it was seen by one of my coracles and was too far away for me to get an army there for a fight.

The biggest problem with this c=game is that the human thinks as a cic, but the AI basically thinks as a series of cities.

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History is written by the victor.

Simpleton · December 23, 2000, 20:47

quote:

Originally posted by The diplomat on 12-23-2000 05:41 PM

I know many criticized the AI in SMAC, but folks it is LIGHT-YEARS ahead of CTP2. I started playing SMAC again, and I was amazed at the AI and the diplomacy.

AMEN TO THAT!
YOU KNOW, I HATE TO BE OVERLY CRITICAL BECAUSE I KNOW MAKING A PROGRAMMING A GAME OF THIS TYPE MUST BE DIFFICULT. BUT FOR MONTHS THE ACTIVISION GUYS WERE PUMPING UP THIS GAME WITH THE HELP OF APOLYTON ABOUT HOW GREAT THE DIPLOMACY WAS AND HOW SPECTACULAR THE AI WAS BUT WHEN IT CAME TO DELIVERING THE GOODS ...BIG FAILURE.
THE SMAC AI AND DIPLOMACY WAS TONS BETTER!
WHY WAS THE SMAC TEAM ABLE TO PUT OUT A GOOD PRODUCT AND ACTIVISION FAILED? I THINK IT COME DOWN TO THE FACT THAT ONE TEAM CARED ABOUT PUTTING OUT A QUALITY PRODUCT AND THE OTHER TEAM JUST WANTED IT OUT!
UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO SMAC BECAUSE I'M SPOILED BY PUBLIC WORKS (THE ONLY REALLY GROUND BREAKING GREAT IDEA FROM CTP1 OR CTP2).
THE MORE I THINK ABOUT HOW ACTIVISION ONCE AGAIN RIPPED ME OFF FOR (69.99$ CANADIAN) I THE MORE PISSED OFF I GET! LIKE I'VE SAID BEFORE I WILL BE VERY VERY VERY ....(300 OR 400 MORE VERY'S) VERY RELUCTANT TO BUY ANOTHER CTP PRODUCT. TWICE BITTEN (I ALSO BOUGHT CTP1) FOREVER SHY!!

Chronus · December 24, 2000, 02:09

Well, I hope some of you "critics" can take comfort in the fact that you have been heard. To this day, I still get twinges to go out and buy this game. Then, I come here, read some more posts, and decide not to buy it. The more I come here, the stronger my resolve not to buy. Thanks to all for the input.

Still, a part of me hopes that Activision can somehow salvage this. I really would like to see a good, QUALITY CTP game but, unfortunately, the bar on the skept-o-meter is pretty high right now. Anyone mind loaning me your CTP2 CD? ;-)

Alpha Wolf · December 24, 2000, 06:44

Lets see how it works after we get all of Wes's changes.

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History is written by the victor.

Narck · December 24, 2000, 11:57

You guys paid way too much for your copy. I paid $30 for mine and I am still going to receive a $5 rebate.

Oh, Simpleton, could you please refrain from using all CAPS? It's more difficult to read your text this way, and it looks bad too.

Simpleton · December 25, 2000, 01:25

Sorry about the caps. I shall control myself from now on.